A partial history on how we became entangled with the world

[conservatour]

Yes prior to WW2 we were isolationist but as the war ended the Soviets did not return the Eastern European countries they "liberated" to their free sovereignty. We saw the threat to the rest of Europe that the Soviet Union posed and came up with the Marshall Plan to rebuild the rest of Europe because if left in its weakened state and abandoned by the US, the other world power left after the war, could be at jeopardy of becoming part of the Soviet Union and they made no secret of the fact that they wanted to take all that they could, including the US. After that NATO, SEATO, the Korean war with their then proxie China, Vietnam, and it went on into the Middle East where they saw oil as a prize. And then there was OPEC.

It has spiraled out of control, but what could we do with weapons that are now minutes away instead of months as it was in the days of our Founders. And as we all here agree that we are too dependent on ME oil. The only way we can get out of this is to be energy independent which we can be if we are allowed to use the resources that are here in our country. And I am not talking about wind power and other green conservation measures. There's oil and oil from coal. Why can't the Libs and RINOs see that!! If we were self-sufficient in energy much of our foreign poliicy would become irrelevant.

[Timberwolf]

Good piece...but, the libs and RINOs DO see it. They just have a vested interest in lining their own pockets by selling us out.

Sadly, I fear it will take an all-out civil war (common folk vs. the elitest beotches in DC and the various statehouses) to right this ship.

[Naturalized-Texan]

However, even if we were energy independent, it would not have stopped the terrorism against American interests that has been happening for at least the past 30 years and it would not have prevented the 9/11 attacks.

The 9/11 attacks had nothing to do with oil.

The campaign to establish Islam world-wide pre-dates the discovery of oil in the Middle East by about 13 centuries and dates back the command contained in the Quran to establish Islamic law in every country of the world. The 9/11 attacks had EVERYTHING to do with that command in the Quran.

I strongly recommend that everyone here read Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali to learn and understand what the 9/11 attacks have forced us to contend with from the IslamoFascists. She left Islam mainly because of the irrational hatred being taught by the IslamoFascists. It's clear from reading her book that the 9/11 attacks would have occurred even if we had never imported a single drop of oil from the Middle East. BTW, I learned from Hirsi Ali's book that the English translation of the word "Islam" is "Submission." According to the Quran, everyone in the world must submit to Islam.

[Rhino]

Not bad. However, if we were self-sufficient in energy, it doesn't mean our allies and other overseas interests would be, so we would still have many strategic interests outside our borders. Like it or not, we have far too many strategic connections outside our borders, both energy and non-energy, for isolationism to ever work well. Before WW II, we were only isolationist in a military sense. We still had many vested interests economically overseas. That why the military isolationism got us into trouble. If isolationism is ever going to work, it has to be total. You can't withdraw military support overseas unless you also eliminate all other interests there. Since we can't realistically do that, we will always be saddled with military support overseas, in one form or another. To withdraw military support, while still having other strategic interests overseas, would be a recipe for disaster.

[Timberwolf]

However, even if we were energy independent, it would not have stopped the terrorism against American interests that has been happening for at least the past 30 years and it would not have prevented the 9/11 attacks.

The 9/11 attacks had nothing to do with oil.

The campaign to establish Islam world-wide pre-dates the discovery of oil in the Middle East by about 13 centuries and dates back the command contained in the Quran to establish Islamic law in every country of the world. The 9/11 attacks had EVERYTHING to do with that command in the Quran.

I strongly recommend that everyone here read Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali to learn and understand what the 9/11 attacks have forced us to contend with from the IslamoFascists. She left Islam mainly because of the irrational hatred being taught by the IslamoFascists. It's clear from reading her book that the 9/11 attacks would have occurred even if we had never imported a single drop of oil from the Middle East. BTW, I learned from Hirsi Ali's book that the English translation of the word "Islam" is "Submission." According to the Quran, everyone in the world must submit to Islam.
Yeah...but, they wouldn't be able to use the excuse, "The infidel Americans are here so we MUST attack them", could they? I HIGHLY doubt anything amounting to the severity of 9/11 would have happened to US interests by now...but, if it had, I also highly doubt there would be any muzzies left alive on the planet by now as, a Crusade (the likes the world has never seen) would be in full stride.

Our being there only gives them the excuses they need to justify their corrupt, evil religion of "peace"...and carte blanche to strike out at us.

[DesertFox]

Tex is saying, rightly, that they never needed an "excuse." They're responding to a command.

[Jester21]

Tex is saying, rightly, that they never needed an "excuse."
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with DF. :P

Doesn't matter now what happens, the extremists will always hate America. We could ask them to draw up a list of concerns, give them absolutely everything they want, and next week they'll be back to hating. It's ingrained. They're like Pavlov's dogs; instead of hearing the bell they hear "America" and begin frothing at the mouth.

[DesertFox]

:lol:

And you've said it well, Jester.

[Maggie_T]

It has spiraled out of control, but what could we do with weapons that are now minutes away instead of months as it was in the days of our Founders. And as we all here agree that we are too dependent on ME oil. The only way we can get out of this is to be energy independent which we can be if we are allowed to use the resources that are here in our country. And I am not talking about wind power and other green conservation measures. There's oil and oil from coal. Why can't the Libs and RINOs see that!! If we were self-sufficient in energy much of our foreign poliicy would become irrelevant.


Well, I don't know about our foreign policy becoming irrelevant, but it would certainly smooth things out and make it easier for us.

As for why the usual suspects don't see it, it's because they DON'T WANT to see it. I won't try to explain RINOs' reasons. Lord knows I've long since given up trying to understand why Bush and RINOs do what they do, except that they must be stuck on stupid.

As for lefties, it's the usual stuff: they are scared to bloody death that someone might make money out of oil (those Big Bad Oil Companies who dominate Republicans - like libs are not dominated by MoveOn, etc. :rolleyes: ). Forget their bleatings about the environment, global warming, and all that rot. What they really fear like the bogeyman is that people will become (gasp!) rich. And it won't be them. Global warming and the forking environment are just their excuse. And as usual, it's served them well. Look at all the imbeciles that are running around like Chicken Little, mewling about the end of the world, and demanding every Nanny Government in the world to do something about it. E.i. force America to go back to the Stone Age, while countries like India and China continue to pollute the air.

But that's all right, you know. It's ok for those countries to do it. In fact, it's ok for any country to do it, as long as it's not Bad Meanie America.

[Maggie_T]

.

Sadly, I fear it will take an all-out civil war (common folk vs. the elitest beotches in DC and the various statehouses) to right this ship.


Couldn't agree more, Wolfie. I know there are people who roll their eyes at this, but it's true. Things have reached such a state that only drastic measures will make any difference.

Yeah. What are the blooming odds, right? :sulk:

Oh, well. It was nice while it lasted.

[Timberwolf]

Tex is saying, rightly, that they never needed an "excuse." They're responding to a command.
I'm not saying they "needed" one, I'm saying we're giving them one...one which justifies their actions in the eyes of the OTHER countries on the planet. Were we not over there, we couldn't be seen as "the eeeeeevil imperialists" and their actions couldn't be rationalized by others.