The downside of diversity

[DesertFox]

IT HAS BECOME increasingly popular to speak of racial and ethnic diversity as a civic strength. From multicultural festivals to pronouncements from political leaders, the message is the same: our differences make us stronger.

But a massive new study, based on detailed interviews of nearly 30,000 people across America, has concluded just the opposite. Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam -- famous for "Bowling Alone," his 2000 book on declining civic engagement -- has found that the greater the diversity in a community, the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects. In the most diverse communities, neighbors trust one another about half as much as they do in the most homogenous settings. The study, the largest ever on civic engagement in America, found that virtually all measures of civic health are lower in more diverse settings.

"The extent of the effect is shocking," says Scott Page, a University of Michigan political scientist.

More (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/05/news/diversity.php)

[DesertFox]

One wonders why anyone would be surprised at the "shocking extent" of people not trusting others unlike themselves. When someone speaks around the house and in the yard in a tongue you don't understand, you're at least somewhat intimidated from going over to introduce yourself. He hears you speaking fluent English and may well feel intimidated himself, embarrassed by his less-than-perfect command. You hear him yelling and beating up his kids, as they do where he comes from, and you don't really want your kids hanging around them.

Other examples abound. The black guy across the alley from me is surly. I used to walk my dog in the alley and the black guy's pit bull and other dog would come over to get petted and talked to. The guy made a point of running me down one day and pointedly telling me not to pet or talk to his dogs because "it gets them all riled" -- he himself does nothing like walking them or petting them or talking to them or rolling on the ground playing with them. Other black folks in the neighborhood used to be friendly and outgoing, but not this guy. After he'd lived here awhile, the other black folks began being less genial. He is the bad apple who is spoiling the whole bunch, I'm afraid.

The Mexicans next door are lower-class people. The woman is nice enough but her husband is a jerk. He likes to hold beer parties with loud music, even though their daughter is but four and the boy two. My wife doesn't trust these people any further than she could throw them. Nor do I. Even though my wife is Hispanic and I speak fluent Spanish, that has nothing to do with anything; these people have no sense of middle-class values and no interest in learning (we've tried).

The Laotians up the street live about 30 people to that one house. I'd lose my mind in such an environment, but they don't seem to mind. They stand outside talking in their native tongue. I walk by and nod, and some of them nod back while others of them look suspicious. They all work for other Laotians in Phoenix, and only Laotians work in those places because they can communicate with each other and not have to put up with American attitudes toward work.

The Arabs next door to the Laotians leave paper plates with rice on them in the front yard for birds and passing dogs to eat. That's nice enough of them, I guess, but then the plates blow all over the street and the Arabs never bother chasing them down. When you nod and say good morning to one of the women, they tuck their burkhas tighter and hasten off. The men wave back but none makes much effort to speak English.

The surprise is that it took academe all this time to arrive at a conclusion that everybody else, even liberals, knew years ago. Liberals of course lie about what they feel and think concerning people different from themselves, and conservatives don't talk about this sort of thing because it gets you tarred by liberals as a racist.

[Bluemoon_Rising]

Excellent observations, Fox.

[Kathy30]

Desert Fox, you must live near me. You described this area perfectly. I have found that anyone who does speak English perhaps they learned some on the job, or a kid brought it home from school will refuse to speak English. They won't let their kids speak English either. If you say anything to them, they'll look at you as if you had just insulted them, and huff off.

[DesertFox]

Well, we have plenty of good folks -- other Arabs, other Mexicans, other blacks, even a Russian -- on our street. But you can see why people are slow to trust others unlike themselves. There's a white couple a couple of blocks away who are like the Mexicans but worse. I shoulda mentioned them. They're white trash types, the kind who go around with the crack of the ass showing (plumber's butt), unshaven and, one suspects, unwashed. You don't even want to go near them for fear of catching lice or something. These people are white, and I'm white, but they aren't "like" me and I don't want anything to do with them.

How's that for 'diversity,' libs?

[Eagle1]

the putnam article is very good, as was his bowling alone

the real way to understand what is going on, and had been for as long as there has been democracy, is to read democracy in america
tocqueville did his observations in the first part of the 1800's, and his ideas become more true every day

[Coleridge]

I have concluded many things about the history and direction of America regarding the issue of its decline. One of the major causes for the decline of America is "Multiculturalism". You start out with a British-born Nation that is homogenous and united in almost every way. You build and work the country and you run the country. Then you let in new people. But things aren't going to be so easy for them. For this is your land. They have to conform to belong. You mandate it. Then these people become part of the majority and will continue the effort of running it. Then you get newer, different kinds of people. They refuse to conform and want to be independent of the Nation's character. Not a problem, you say. The law is you must live the life of the American and nothing else will do. Only this time, these people are coming in far greater numbers than you expected, invading your cities and towns. Eventually by the nature of the vulnerable Republic, they are given political power. These people then decide, "You know what, I don't much like the Anglican lifestyle. Mine suits me better. I think I'm going to put an end to that." And then the foreigners change your very country by force. But our people are very proud and refuse to deal with them or acknowledge them. Then the people get together and send some political mules to office mandating us to accept them and hold us accountable for any smidge of a cause. What I'm saying is we are at the point when the European-dissent Americans, the real Americans, the ones here first are losing political power and control of the country. We have sacrificed almost everything (most of the time against our will) in a hope of the dream of the perfectability of man. The Media enforces such ideas as well the corrupt and perverted Public education system. You fight with your children against the ideas being planted in their heads by the wacked out traitorous intellectual teachers. The countries soul begins to die as well as its will to fight and die for it. America's culture is being enervated by third-world occupiers sent here and permitted by the heads of government. We have been getting it stuck to us for almost a century. Also, in spite of what people think, America is at the mercy of Europe in that it cannot survive without it and is a reflected image of it. Europe as you know has collapsed and is not the spledor it once was and is quickly getting worse. This whole happening is not only going to lead and permeat America, it already has and has been for years. It's a sad time in America and I don't know what will eventually happen.

[DoctorDoom]

It's a sad time in America and I don't know what will eventually happen."There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.... A hyphenated American is not an American at all... Americanism is a matter of the spirit, and of the soul...The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans...each preserving its separate nationality.... The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans.... There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American."
--Theodore Roosevelt

[DesertFox]

You start out with a British-born Nation that is homogenous and united in almost every way.Um, this is overstated. British-born, yes. Hardly homogenous. In the mix were Germans, French, Irish -- and Brits from several different locales in Britain who were as different from each other as Germans from French. Thomas Sowell in one of his books traces the history of so-called "black English" to Brits from some part of England where they spoke just that way. They fought viciously. One fight he records was between two guys, one of whom had already lost one eye in another fight. They wanted to fight "rough and tumble" (anything goes) and did. Time it was over, the one guy had lost the other eye and his opponent had lost an eye also.

America didn't start out united and homogeneous. She did start out with a system that let people be pretty-much themselves as long as they fit in with the rest. That used to be called the melting pot. Multiculturalism is the antithesis of the melting pot, just as you say.

[Coleridge]

Um, this is overstated. British-born, yes. Hardly homogenous. In the mix were Germans, French, Irish -- and Brits from several different locales in Britain who were as different from each other as Germans from French. Thomas Sowell in one of his books traces the history of so-called "black English" to Brits from some part of England where they spoke just that way. They fought viciously. One fight he records was between two guys, one of whom had already lost one eye in another fight. They wanted to fight "rough and tumble" (anything goes) and did. Time it was over, the one guy had lost the other eye and his opponent had lost an eye also.

This is true but I wish not our readers to confuse this understanding with the liberal's opinion in which they accentuate these differences in order to solidify their multi-culturalism reasoning. There are always differences in people that are born in different areas, especially Europe where Western Culture has been so uniquely defined/refined among its great Nations. This of course had much to do with their in-fighting to begin with. People's believing in different things leads them to defending or expanding them. The reason why America was able to work and become the greatest World Power was because they were similar enough to get along, inter-marry and unite. America was called The New World. This did not imply America was open for colonization of people from all the four corners; what it really meant was America is The New Europe. America was the Nation where families from all over the European continent could move to, set aside their differences and unite like Europe never did. True, there were many obstacles and there was in-fighting between the sects but America's Anglos grew together and formed it. A New definition of Western Culture had to be constructed which we did. America is a European Christian colony, a son of the West. It is the attack on this historical fact that is crippling America in countless ways.

America didn't start out united and homogeneous. She did start out with a system that let people be pretty-much themselves as long as they fit in with the rest. That used to be called the melting pot. Multiculturalism is the antithesis of the melting pot, just as you say.

I agree with that but the earlier Americans did not intermarry by accident. They intermarried because they descended from great people and were of the same race. It's ludicrous to expect Caucasian Americans to intermarry collectively with Asians, Indians, Blacks, Hispanics, etc. Americans will not because Americans are Proud of their culture and ancestry and can only preserve that and only share it with other people of the West. The Caucasian race is on the road to a lot of trouble in the future and is being divided and subtracted. It is this division that has contributed to America's enervated soul and its will to fight. The minorities right now are a burden and are quickly becoming a threat. That...I emphatically profess.

[DoctorDoom]

That used to be called the melting pot. Multiculturalism is the antithesis of the melting pot, just as you say.We went from a melting pot to a tossed salad. Nothing in the bowl is changed by being there, and the only commonality is the dressing that is poured over it.

Ethnic balkanization will be our undoing, and its slogan is, "Press 1 for English."

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Coleridge, I don't know if I'm reading your posts right, would you please clarify? Are you saying Caucasians = Americans, all other races = Not Americans? If so, I must point out, American isn't a race, it is a nationality, and it is the conglomeration of the races, faiths, sexes, etc. come together to form one nation that makes Americans.

[Rhino]

And be warned, your remarks are very much bordering on racist. We don't allow that here.

[PaulRevere]

A salad bowl society where people of differing races, ethnicities, and so on is what demagogues live on. Their power derives in part from the 'divide and rule' concept where everyone has a complaint or suspicion or outright hatred of other groups. Hugo Chavez has tapped into and inflamed ethnic differences in Venezuela.

In Europe it was class-based warfare since everyone was white. It's that way here, too, where Rats love to hate rich white Republicans, thinking that no one notices that the Rat rulers are mostly rich and white, too.

[dPrasse]

The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans.... There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American."
--Theodore Roosevelt

Teddy had it right ....

My family came from Germany in the mid 1800's ... I have no connection to the "family" until 1873 , when the family settled on a farm here in N. Illinois This farm is still in the family and is how far back I trace my "roots" ...

[Maggie_T]

One wonders why anyone would be surprised at the "shocking extent" of people not trusting others unlike themselves.

Allow me.

I'm ready to bet that all this "shock and awe" about people not trusting others unlike themselves occurs exclusively in liberal (lefties, whatever) circles.

This is because part of liberals' mantra is that human beings - regardless of race, ethnicity, the whole 9 yards - are harmoniously united by brotherly love. Or should be. (And by golly, liberals are going to make sure they force everybody they can get their hands on to acquiesce to this way of thinking).

Liberals apply this capacity for brotherly love exclusively to two groups: non-American (preferably also non-white and from the 3rd world), and themselves. The rest of Americans (especially white Christian conservatives) need not apply. Any liberal worth his/her salt will tell you they are bigoted, suspicious, racist, ethnophobic, judgmental SOBs, spoiling for a return to the times of racial segregation.

But then, one fine day, someone comes up with a massive new study, based on detailed interviews of hundreds of thousands of people. The study proves - once again - that liberals' sense of reality and rationalism is on a par with that of members of the Heaven's Gate cult. As usual when confronted with facts, liberals act in the characteristic deer-caught-in-the-headlights fashion. "What?! Blacks are surly? Mexicans expose their 4 and 2 year olds to booze? (Whispering) Arabs have (gasp!) trashy habits? (Loudly again)And they all distrust one another?! Impossible! Unheard of! These are non-Americans! These are decent people!"

That's all that matters to liberals. That foreigners are not Americans. The darker their skins, the higher their illiteracy, the poorer the country they come from, the more virtuous they are. They can't do wrong. Much less distrust those unlike them. That is strictly a white, Christian conservative, American fault.

That's why I do not wonder about why anyone would be surprised at the "shocking extent" of people not trusting others unlike themselves. The only ones who show surprise at this more-often-than-not typical human trait are liberals. Especially when said traits go against their pre-packaged concept of human behavior.

[Trovalor]

I live in an area where there are a lot Laotians. The parents and grandparents can be a bit xenophobic, no matter how nice you are to them, tho their children are usually a lot more open and friendly. I have noticed the biggest difference between them is simply the language barrier. They also have their own cultural rules which I found cool, like one guy I know, his mother cheated on his father, and their council of sorts required that she pay a hefty fee for doing so (was like $12k or $15k, I cant remember off hand).

We have a good number of Mexicans in the area as well, who run and own the Mexican restaurants in the area (and some damn good food a that). They (unlike the boarder crossing illegals) will work until they can afford to help another member of their friends/family come to America, then that person will in turn help out. One thing I notice with them is they all speak good english, especially considering their accent.

We don't have a lot of blacks in the area, but they stick out and for good reason, you don't know what to expect. One may be friendly and talkative, yet another regards you as though you have leprosy. Sadly, a few of them are known drug runners from Milwaukee and Madison, pedaling their wares here. So while I try not to label them, when they walk like a gangster, look like a pimp, and drive some sports car thats worth more than the house they are walking into, its hard not too.

[Maggie_T]

We have a good number of Mexicans in the area as well, who run and own the Mexican restaurants in the area (and some damn good food a that). They (unlike the boarder crossing illegals) will work until they can afford to help another member of their friends/family come to America, then that person will in turn help out. One thing I notice with them is they all speak good english, especially considering their accent.



Same here. There is a wonderful Mexican restaurant near our house. It is run by a Mexican familiy. They all speak very good English, although with an accent (who cares?). They are courteous, the place is clean, the food outstanding. I'm all for that.

Another thing liberals - in their infinite clulessness and capacity for self-deception - never seem to realize is that it is THEY who created all this distrust among people of different nationalities. The Balkanization of America is the result of liberals' constant pitching race against race in order to forward the liberal agenda. Divide to conquer, and all that.

It's all their fault. But they characteristically deny it.

Stupid bastards.

[ardentconservative]

I'm glad that someone finally admitted that diversity is not good. Heck, all you have to do is look a family unit that doesn't eat together, doesn't play together, doesn't sit down and talk to each. They go their own way, do their own thing, never have time for each other, and what happens. They don't know each other. Their almost like strangers to each other. They have nothing in common to speak of and therefore they don't pull together. They pull their own seperate ways, and the family is not really a unit. Same in a soceity. When there is no common goal to work together for, then each person goes their own way, does their own thing, and works against each other to obtain their own goals. But at least now we have some ex-perts that tells us that is what is happening in America.

[garlicguy]

A little bit of diversity within a culture might be a fine thing. This implies that folks respect and assimilate their diversities into the existing (overarching) culture.

Road signs along Interstate 94 between Chicago and Milwaukee in the 1980's posted in English and Spanish were not being placed to increase tourism. The problem was already among us at that time and it has grown (groan) exponentially. It annoyed me then for the misuse of tax dollars. Today the accommodations made for illegal immigrants are pandemic and the financial burdens are breaking our backs.

Multiculturalism results in the lack of firm enough identity within a people group for cohesive and collective thoughts. Multiculturalism as a goal or a pursuit for its own sake is not only NOT worth effort, it is destined to cause havoc and downfall of all existing institutions.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :2cents:

[Maggie_T]

I'm glad that someone finally admitted that diversity is not good. Heck, all you have to do is look a family unit that doesn't eat together, doesn't play together, doesn't sit down and talk to each. They go their own way, do their own thing, never have time for each other, and what happens. They don't know each other. Their almost like strangers to each other. They have nothing in common to speak of and therefore they don't pull together. They pull their own seperate ways, and the family is not really a unit. Same in a soceity. When there is no common goal to work together for, then each person goes their own way, does their own thing, and works against each other to obtain their own goals. But at least now we have some ex-perts that tells us that is what is happening in America.

Excellent comparison, ardentconservative. :claps: And welcome to FC!

[ardentconservative]

Excellent comparison, ardentconservative. :claps: And welcome to FC!

Thanks, Maggie_T, glad to be here. I had been posting regularly on another forum that was supposed to be conservative, but the forum went in a way that I would consider PC :sad: :sad:. The administrator of the forum began to tell those who disagreed with the resident liberals that they were being mean spirited:shame::shame:[my words not his, but that is what he meant.]. I quickly began to lose intrest, and started looking for other forums. I found FreeConservatives.:claps: :claps:

[DoctorDoom]

Glad to have you aboard, AC! One thing FC is NOT is politically correct.

I've posted at "conservative" boards that are so anally retentive that if one refers to a pol by anything other than his/her proper name and office, it is censured and a cause for banning if it happens more than once. There is nothing so painful as being required to refer to "President Bill Clinton" and "Senator Hillary Clinton" rather than BJ Billy and the Queen Bitch.

I abandoned the board after maybe 20 posts. Old DD in "nice" mode is as uncomfortable as Charles Bronson in ballet tights.

[JOHN D]

Multiculturalism is a part of the liberal mindset. Leftists have perverted the concept of diversity and have made it, or are attempting to make it a major cornerstone of our society instead of just a small part of the ruling principles of our society. That is where the problem arises, of course, caused by the left. There is nothing wrong with diversity unless you try to force it on everyone using political correctness. Diversity just happens and has been helpful to our country, but it's just a small part of the whole package. It has also been destructive. Leftists have turned traditional American values upside down so they can use the concept of diversity to create a victim class that will separate and destroy us. The problem is people who will not strive to be Americans first, no matter their ethnicity or country of origin. That's the key. Immigrants and even some people who are born here, refuse to be American.

[ardentconservative]

Glad to have you aboard, AC! One thing FC is NOT is politically correct.

I've posted at "conservative" boards that are so anally retentive that if one refers to a pol by anything other than his/her proper name and office, it is censured and a cause for banning if it happens more than once. There is nothing so painful as being required to refer to "President Bill Clinton" and "Senator Hillary Clinton" rather than BJ Billy and the Queen Bitch.

I abandoned the board after maybe 20 posts. Old DD in "nice" mode is as uncomfortable as Charles Bronson in ballet tights.

Hear, Hear Doc. 100% agreed. I'm conservative to the bone. I make no pretense as to where I stand politically. I've seen Hitlary called many things but Queen Bitch is a new one. Thanks for the welcome. :D:D