N. Korea building fence to keep people in

[DesertFox]

North Korea has started building a fence along parts of its border with China, a news report said today, in an apparent move to prevent North Koreans from fleeing the impoverished communist country. ...

The fence comes less than a year after China built a massive barbed wire and concrete fence along its side of the same river.

North Korea and China share an 880-mile border.

More (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5084232.html)

[Wolfcounsel]

That does it. Scratch North Korea off my list of paradises to explore next summer.

[Beowulf]

The fence comes less than a year after China built a massive barbed wire and concrete fence along its side of the same river.

George W could learn from this. China builds a wall/fence to keep the scum OUT!!

[buckeyepete]

Sorta Like Jumping From The Frying Pan Into The Fire, If You Ask Me.

[The_Elucidator]

Starving North Koreans, doing jobs starving Chinese won't do!

[DoctorDoom]

This satellite photo of the two Koreas at night says more than ten volumes of words could portray.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/DocDoom777/International/NKvsSK.jpg

[sunsettommy]

Oh man that photo is scary!

It has a head with an eye and sneering mouth.The beard is scraggly with windswept hair.

North Korea is the sign of the devil!

[ThomasMore]

That does it. Scratch North Korea off my list of paradises to explore next summer.

You could always follow up on P.J. O'Rourke's seminal work on vacation spots:

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NMYJ5H1VL._SS500_.jpg

[Riverboat]

A wall between two communist countries? My mind is overloading with irony. Guess there won't be any Chinese counterpoint to Reagan exhorting the shrimp to TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!

[ThomasMore]

A wall between two communist countries? My mind is overloading with irony.

North Korea has started building a fence along parts of its border with China...The fence comes less than a year after China built a massive barbed wire and concrete fence along its side of the same river.

A DOUBLE fence. The NK government doesn't want its people to escape; the Chinese don't want the NKs in.

That the N. Koreans want to brave this to escape to Communist China speaks volumes about Kim's kind mercies towards his fellow Koreans.

[Lazarus]

Maybe we should get the North Koreans to bid on doing our fence...

[Timberwolf]

Why don't they try to get to SOUTH Korea?? All they'd hafta do is cross the DMZ....

[DesertFox]

Actually, this is tragic for the NoKo's, who have been starving to death for a decade now. To them, China really IS a paradise. I recommend This Is Paradise by an escaped NoKo. IMO we should knock over that cokebottle bottomed dictator and save the NoKo's from his insanity.

[Lazarus]

...IMO we should knock over that cokebottle bottomed dictator and save the NoKo's from his insanity.Sorry Bre'er Fox, I can't back you on this one...

The North Koreans must take their destiny in their hands... They currently show absolutely no inclination toward reaching out to grasp freedom and self-government... This is a regional problem and the regional powers should deal with it...

I hate that snotty little tyrant as much as you do, but we must stop trying to be the world's daddy...

[DesertFox]

Laz, you don't get it. They CAN'T help themselves. The govt has all force on its side, and there is no such thing as communication with anyone else to coordinate a rising. In fact, people are so weak from hunger that they couldn't fight if they had to.

This is like you fighting Hulk Hogan, and while he has you on the ground in a strangle hold, someone on the side casually observes that you have to help yourself.

[DeclinetoState]

I think DF's right. The North Korean people have been brainwashed into thinking that, as bad as things are in their own neck of the woods, they are much worse everywhere else, especially South Korea and the United States.

Check out this site, which tracks NK propaganda: http://www.nk-news.net/index.php

[DoctorDoom]

From the 2007 CIA World Factbook (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/countrylisting.html#k):

Economy - overview:

North Korea, one of the world's most centrally planned and isolated economies, faces desperate economic conditions. Industrial capital stock is nearly beyond repair as a result of years of underinvestment and shortages of spare parts. Industrial and power output have declined in parallel.

Due in part to severe summer flooding followed by dry weather conditions in the fall of 2006, the nation has suffered its 12th year of food shortages because of on-going systemic problems, including a lack of arable land, collective farming practices, and chronic shortages of tractors and fuel. Massive international food aid deliveries have allowed the people of North Korea to escape mass starvation since famine threatened in 1995, but the population continues to suffer from prolonged malnutrition and poor living conditions.

Large-scale military spending eats up resources needed for investment and civilian consumption. In 2004, the regime formalized an arrangement whereby private "farmers' markets" were allowed to begin selling a wider range of goods. It also permitted some private farming on an experimental basis in an effort to boost agricultural output. In October 2005, the regime reversed some of these policies by forbidding private sales of grains and reinstituting a centralized food rationing system.

By December 2005, the regime terminated most international humanitarian assistance operations in North Korea (calling instead for developmental assistance only) and restricted the activities of remaining international and non-governmental aid organizations such as the World Food Program. External food aid now comes primarily from China and South Korea in the form of grants and long-term concessional loans. Firm political control remains the Communist government's overriding concern, which will likely inhibit the loosening of economic regulations.North Korea (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/kn.html)

Those beset people are barely able to stay alive, let alone plot and carry out a revolution. Only one thing will save them from mass starvation and death.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/DocDoom777/PITA/KimCH.jpg

[Lazarus]

Laz, you don't get it. They CAN'T help themselves...Oh I get it, Fox... I simply disagree - Revolution is not the end all answer to their problems... In fact revolution would not solve their problem - it would simply enslave them to a new master...

We are all products of our own decisions - Right now the North Koreans are paying the bill for their decisions... But that doesn't mean they must remain forever under this tyranny... Those people need a change in their thinking...

As for our role, I still maintain that we do not have the omniscience, onmipotence, or sovereign righteousness to be the world's daddy... If North Korea isn't threatening us directly, we do not have the resources or the right to go in there simply because we hate the pit of slavery those people have volitionally chosen to jump into...

[cerberus]

Oh I get it, Fox... I simply disagree - Revolution is not the end all answer to their problems... In fact revolution would not solve their problem - it would simply enslave them to a new master...

We are all products of our own decisions - Right now the North Koreans are paying the bill for their decisions... But that doesn't mean they must remain forever under this tyranny... Those people need a change in their thinking... They need more than a change in thinking. They would need arms and, hell, FOOD to do the job themselves. It's mighty hard to remove a repressive regime when you barely take in enough calories to survive. The army has all the weapons and it's the world's most controlled society, how the hell are the people of North Korea expected to 'solve their own problem'?

As for our role, I still maintain that we do not have the omniscience, onmipotence, or sovereign righteousness to be the world's daddy... If North Korea isn't threatening us directly, we do not have the resources or the right to go in there simply because we hate the pit of slavery those people have volitionally chosen to jump into...
But....invading Iraq on the other hand was a good idea...why? :question:
And I hardly think they CHOSE to jump into the situation they are in. The population is trying to flee to China after all.......

[DesertFox]

North Koreans never chose Communist masters, Lazarus. As they always do, the Commies seized power by force. No decision by the NoKo's put them there.

[Beowulf]

But....invading Iraq on the other hand was a good idea...why?
*shakes head*
No one will ever convince you or your Liberal ilk but I'll repeat it, Iraq was allowing terrorists to train and organize within it's country. As W said in one of his State of the Unions, "If you harbor terrorists, you will be treated as terrorists."
But, this thread is about North Korea so if you want to debate this, open a thread and call me out.

[CzechPrince]

We are all products of our own decisions


This is ridiculous, and at the same time, insulting. Are you really applying that standard to people oppressed by dictatorial communism? Please, enlighten me as to when North Koreans chose to be ruled how they are right now. Tell that to Czechs in who had to deal with the 1968 invasion by Soviet military, or to the Hungarians in 1956 when they tried to oust the communist leader.

[gnome]

It is partly ignorance that is keeping them enslaved. While the merits of force may be debated, I think everyone can agree that it would be good to find ways to show them what the rest of the world is like.

[DesertFox]

Nope. What is keeping them enslaved is brutal, tyrannical, inhuman force that they can't throw off unaided. It is a blot on America, not to mention the rest of the world, that we don't move against that bastard. He's wrecked that country and cheated those people of anything resembling an ordinary life. He needs to be brought before a court and made to face his crimes, just as Saddam, and then dispassionately hanged.

[cerberus]

You know Fox. Sometimes you and I are on the same page.....

[DesertFox]

Yeah. Those few times when you're right. :D

[gnome]

DF... I believe you're mostly right here. Just throwing my thoughts on the ignorance of a closed society on top of it. Bringing in information WOULD be a threat to the government there--look how desperately they try to avoid it. After all, you need to keep your shepherds in line too, not just the sheep.

In the past, we haven't moved further on N. Korea to avoid nuclear war with China and Russia. Now that the Russian threat is less tied into that area, there's still worries about China, and the possible devastation that N. Korea can visit on Seoul before we can stop them. Maybe we eventually have to go through that... but I don't really think it's a blot that we've been highly reluctant.

[CzechPrince]

Bringing in information WOULD be a threat to the government there--look how desperately they try to avoid it.After all, you need to keep your shepherds in line too, not just the sheep.

When you figure out a plan to get information to those poor people, let me know. I can tell you from personal experience that while you may think it is easy, it's not.