Liberal Message?

[TeenageRepublican]

I watched "Shooter" last night, and I've done some thinking. Is it supposed to have a Liberal message? I mean, it has all the Liberal mindviews.

-Politicians lieing about going to war for oil.
-Killed innocent people in another country for no reason.
-Being in a country that did nothing to us.

Is it a Liberal movie, or am I being a radical Right-Winger and applying politics everything I see? Please, be brutally honest with me. I don't want to be a crazy Right-Winger who goes around talking about politics everywhere, I actually want a life and just be a Conservative on the side.

[MarlinsFan]

I watched "Shooter" last night, and I've done some thinking. Is it supposed to have a Liberal message? I mean, it has all the Liberal mindviews.

-Politicians lieing about going to war for oil.
-Killed innocent people in another country for no reason.
-Being in a country that did nothing to us.

Is it a Liberal movie, or am I being a radical Right-Winger and applying politics everything I see? Please, be brutally honest with me. I don't want to be a crazy Right-Winger who goes around talking about politics everywhere, I actually want a life and just be a Conservative on the side.

Was it like Clinton gettin involved with Kosovo?

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

TR,
I haven't seen "Shooter", however, I can understand your disgust at the liberal agenda being pushed (heavily) on screen today. We watched "Perfect Stranger" a week ago, and I was absolutely revolted by the blatant liberal bent from the beginning of the movie (which focuses on Halle Berry's part in taking down a moral family-values Republican caught in a homosexual affair).

[DoctorDoom]

With very few exceptions, EVERYTHING from Unholywood is liberally biased. They're masters at the deceitful art of agitprop.

[Eagle1]

It was still an entertaining movie. You cannot view everything that has the government as a villian as liberal. The conspiracy stuff just makes for exciting cinema, no matter if it is what the libs believe is actually true or not.
If anything the message is that when the government does something wrong a true red blooded American will set things right.

[PaulRevere]

Oh, yeah? Then why did the liberals take Tom Clancy's "Sum of All Fears" and edit it to not have the Islamic Terrorists as the bad guys, but some lame story line where the bad guys are world fascist conspirators?

Why have we not had a single major movie about Moslem terrorists as the bad guys (not some moral relativism movie like "Munich"?)

Why does Hollywood still consider the CIA to be the real bad guys in the world - as in "The Bourne Ultimatum"?

You are being propagandized. It's "the World according to LaLa Land"

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

I agree, PR.

Can anyone name a (fairly recent) blockbuster movie where the "bad guy" has been a liberal, or the movie had/has a more conservative slant? I can't think of one.



On a side note:
Anybody ever see "The Contender" ?
I was disgusted.

[ThomasMore]

I watched "Shooter" last night, and I've done some thinking. Is it supposed to have a Liberal message? I mean, it has all the Liberal worldviews.

-Politicians lying about going to war for oil.
-Killed innocent people in another country for no reason.
-Being in a country that did nothing to us.

Is it a Liberal movie?

I think you have answered your own question.


or am I being a radical Right-Winger and applying politics everything I see? Please, be brutally honest with me. I don't want to be a crazy Right-Winger who goes around talking about politics everywhere, I actually want a life and just be a Conservative on the side. This is a great question. Knowing that the press, Hollywood and academia are liberal strongholds is one thing. How we respond to it is another, and something all of us have to work on.

---

Frogs which will will jump out of hot water if they land in it, but they will stay in water slowly heated to a boil. In the same way, many people are saturated with the liberal messages they get from schools, the press and Hollywood together.

The more closely they pay attention to the messages they get, the more deeply they are infused with a false world view, the more certain they are of that world view, and the more confident they become in their own (false) ideas and (what they believe is) the error of others' views.

Most people who buy the left's arguments do so simply because they have been surrounded with them all their lives and they don't know any differently. Most have never considered checking or challenging those ideas and false facts. Most people are no longer trained that citizenship involves real investigation of the truth, and checking what you think you know against what is really true -- millions of people don't think that way any more.

Since they are comfortable with what they "know," most don't want their world view challenged. If you try to shake their view of the world, most will get irritated, angry, suspicious or insulting, or consider you a nut or flake.


---

Does that mean that those of us who know better should lie down and surrender to a false, but dominant political view? No: that would render truth and our knowledge dead and useless.

What it does mean is that how we approach those who don't know differently with wisdom, patience, humility and humor: arrogance even in the truth is so unattractive as to turn others away and to destroy the message.

First, if you are with friends, fellow students, coworkers and acquaintances, don't force politics upon them -- if they aren't interested, you will turn them off.

Second, do your homework -- you need to know your subjects twice as well as everyone else. Definitely follow the mainstream media to know what is in the news, and how it is being spun. But also dig into subjects more deeply. Learn economics, history, the environment, politics, etc. twice as well as everyone you know, and better than your teachers. Make sure your source material is solid: there are flaky, false writings from EVERY political perspective, including the conservative perspective. Only in this way can you be ready with solid, accurate answers. Many of us here can give you book recommendations which will give you solid foundations in these fields.

Third, when the subjects come up, speak to your points calmly, respectfully and factually. Don't hurl insults even when you get them in return. Insulting people never makes anyone look intelligent or worthwhile to listen to. One of the first signs someone has lost an argument is when he gets angry or slings insults.

Fourth, try to avoid pushing a point until people get angry: if you want to open minds and change them, settle for winning a single point and stopping -- people will know that there is more to what you believe. Often they are more likely to accept a single point, then later on consider that there might be more to what you are saying.

Fifth, when someone attacks a conservative idea or person for the conservatism, respectfully defend the attacked. Many times, people think they are entitled to belittle conservative ideas, thus oppressing the ideas and deterring others from considering them. A calm, courageous, "leave him alone, he's OK" or "what's wrong with that idea?" followed by a ready defense will sometimes slow down the scorners, and turns the spotlight on them. Even if the scorner doesn't change his mind, your calm, generous defense of the attacked should gain you points with honest third parties, and make you look smarter and the others dumber.

Finally, when people start to lose an argument, they will "shift the premise." They will change the subject, or twist your words to change the circumstances in which you meant them. For example, if you say that illegal aliens should be deported, someone might come back with "oh, sure. Some illegal alien who has cancer and can't get treatment here, you want to send them back to die!" It is an emotional argument that (1) has nothing to do with 99.99% of the cases and doesn't deal with the real issue, and (2) is designed to shut you up or make you look like a jerk. DO NOT LET THEM DO THIS! Keep the focus on the problem and what applies in 99.99 percent of the cases.

A perfect example of this is the abortion argument. If someone opposes abortion, the immediate response is "what about rape and incest?" How many people are REALLY getting aboritons because of rape and incest? Almost none. But millions of them get abortions as a form of birth control -- they had sex and don't want a child, so they kill the child. But if you comment on this, the reply you often get is that you are heartless because of the 0.01% case instead of the 99.99% cases.

Just to boil it down: Don't chase people who aren't interested in talking politics. Really know your stuff -- make sure your source material is solid. When the time is right, speak with honesty and grace. Don't let people shift the premise on you. That way, you can be a great salesman for conservative ideas.

[TeenageRepublican]

---

Frogs which will will jump out of hot water if they land in it, but they will stay in water slowly heated to a boil. In the same way, many people are saturated with the liberal messages they get from schools, the press and Hollywood together.

The more closely they pay attention to the messages they get, the more deeply they are infused with a false world view, the more certain they are of that world view, and the more confident they become in their own (false) ideas and (what they believe is) the error of others' views.

Most people who buy the left's arguments do so simply because they have been surrounded with them all their lives and they don't know any differently. Most have never considered checking or challenging those ideas and false facts. Most people are no longer trained that citizenship involves real investigation of the truth, and checking what you think you know against what is really true -- millions of people don't think that way any more.

Since they are comfortable with what they "know," most don't want their world view challenged. If you try to shake their view of the world, most will get irritated, angry, suspicious or insulting, or consider you a nut or flake.


---

Does that mean that those of us who know better should lie down and surrender to a false, but dominant political view? No: that would render truth and our knowledge dead and useless.

What it does mean is that how we approach those who don't know differently with wisdom, patience, humility and humor: arrogance even in the truth is so unattractive as to turn others away and to destroy the message.

First, if you are friends, fellow students, coworkers and acquaintances, don't force politics upon them -- if they aren't interested, you will turn them off.

Second, do your homework -- you need to know your subjects twice as well as everyone else. Definitely follow the mainstream media to know what is in the news, and how it is being spun. But also dig into subjects more deeply. Learn economics, history, the environment, politics, etc. twice as well as everyone you know, and better than your teachers. Make sure your source material is solid: there are flaky, false writings from EVERY political perspective, including the conservative perspective. Only in this way can you be ready with solid, accurate answers. Many of us here can give you book recommendations which will give you solid foundations in these fields.

Third, when the subjects come up, speak to your points calmly, respectfully and factually. Don't hurl insults even when you get them in return. Insulting people never makes anyone look intelligent or worthwhile to listen to. One of the first signs someone has lost an argument is when he gets angry or slings insults.

Fourth, try to avoid pushing a point until people get angry: if you want to open minds and change them, settle for winning a single point and stopping -- people will know that there is more to what you believe. Often they are more likely to accept a single point, then later on consider that there might be more to what you are saying.

Fifth, when someone attacks a conservative idea or person for the conservatism, respectfully defend the attacked. Many times, people think they are entitled to belittle conservative ideas, thus oppressing the ideas and deterring others from considering them. A calm, courageous, "leave him alone, he's OK" or "what's wrong with that idea?" followed by a ready defense will sometimes slow down the scorners, and turns the spotlight on them. Even if the scorner doesn't change his mind, your calm, generous defense of the attacked should gain you points with honest third parties, and make you look smarter and the others dumber.

Finally, when people start to lose an argument, they will "shift the premise." They will change the subject, or twist your words to change the circumstances in which you meant them. For example, if you say that illegal aliens should be deported, someone might come back with "oh, sure. Some illegal alien who has cancer and can't get treatment here, you want to send them back to die!" It is an emotional argument that (1) has nothing to do with 99.99% of the cases and doesn't deal with the real issue, and (2) is designed to shut you up or make you look like a jerk. DO NOT LET THEM DO THIS! Keep the focus on the problem and what applies in 99.99 percent of the cases.

A perfect example of this is the abortion argument. If someone opposes abortion, the immediate response is "what about rape and incest?" How many people are REALLY getting aboritons because of rape and incest? Almost none. But millions of them get abortions as a form of birth control -- they had sex and don't want a child, so they kill the child. But if you comment on this, the reply you often get is that you are heartless because of the 0.01% case instead of the 99.99% cases.

Just to boil it down: Don't chase people who aren't interested in talking politics. Really know your stuff -- make sure your source material is solid. When the time is right, speak with honesty and grace. Don't let people shift the premise on you. That way, you can be a great salesman for conservative ideas.

Wow, you weren't kidding when you told me this is a lengthy response on the PM. I agree with you when you said that people apply false messages from movies like "Shooter" to their everyday life. I agree with all of your points on how you should argue and debate.
I think that most Libtards can't argue without calling you names, as Ann Coulter pointed out in "Slander". That's why I hardly discuss politics, but, when a situation arises, I do indeed debate them, and they go down twenty minutes later with a scoff and without remorse.
I don't debate with people who don't know politics, I feel sorry for them in fact. They have no clue what's going on in the real world, and they don't know what they're missing.

[TeenageRepublican]

Oh, yeah? Then why did the liberals take Tom Clancy's "Sum of All Fears" and edit it to not have the Islamic Terrorists as the bad guys, but some lame story line where the bad guys are world fascist conspirators?

Why have we not had a single major movie about Moslem terrorists as the bad guys (not some moral relativism movie like "Munich"?)

Why does Hollywood still consider the CIA to be the real bad guys in the world - as in "The Bourne Ultimatum"?

You are being propagandized. It's "the World according to LaLa Land"

I can name one flick that had Muslim terrorists as the bad guys. It's called "United 93", that movie has to be one of the best movies I've ever seen. I saw it in the theater, and I was trembling with rage at how those jerks could do that to us on our own soil. I was also touched by the fact that a whole bunch of strangers stood up as one to fight the terrorists.
It's a very emotional movie.

[MarlinsFan]

the tv show "24" has had Muslim terrorist bad guys, as well as other groups of varying ideologies.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

the tv show "24" has had Muslim terrorist bad guys, as well as other groups of varying ideologies.

But "24" is not a blockbuster movie recently released, :smirky:.

[ThomasMore]

I agree with you when you said that people apply false messages from movies like "Shooter" to their everyday life. I agree with all of your points on how you should argue and debate.

...

I don't debate with people who don't know politics, I feel sorry for them in fact. They have no clue what's going on in the real world, and they don't know what they're missing.

Some simply have no interest in talking about politics. Don't bother them.

Others are ignorant, but open-minded. If a subject opens up, how will they learn unless you can offer them something? Something well-reasoned and well-resourced?

[W]hen a situation arises, I do indeed debate them, and they go down twenty minutes later with a scoff and without remorse.

In both of your quotes above, you use the word "debate" about talking politics. A debate means there is a winner and a loser.

If your discussions are about "winning" -- as in "I'm right, you're wrong," the people you talk with will correctly pick up on the fact that you are competing with them. Either they will avoid you, or they will try to beat you -- neither of which will help them learn anything. Furthermore, you will close your own mind to flaws in your own understanding -- I will show you one below.

On the other hand, if your conversations are discussions between equals, seasoned with warmth and grace, people are much more likely to open their minds to new ideas, at least a little. You, too, must keep an open mind: listen to where they come from and consider their points seriously. Good answers will present themselves to you if you know your subjects well and if you take your friends and colleagues seriously. If you close your own mind, your colleagues will figure it out pretty quickly and seal you off.

I think that most Libtards can't argue without calling you names.!?! TR, that is a very telling statement. Do you want to read it over a few times?

.
.
.

When I read that sentence, it told me more about you than everything else you wrote. Why should someone take YOU seriously when you call them names, and then you accuse them of it?

Since you claim to be a follower of Christ, and you quote Billy Graham, please consider these scriptures:

Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. Colossians 4:6

Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. Ephesians 4:29.There are many more scriptures to this point. Speak the truth, but with love. If you treat political conversation as a battle, you will drive away the hearer.