Automatic licence plate readers

[JohnSteel]

New York State Police have a new technology that automatically reads your licence plate as you drive past a police car and looks up information on you. That info is then automatically displayed to the cop. The cop then will give you a ticket based on that info, even if he/she had no other reason to give you a ticket.

Would such a thing be constitutional?

[ThomasMore]

New York State Police have a new technology that automatically reads your licence plate as you drive past a police car and looks up information on you. That info is then automatically displayed to the cop. The cop then will give you a ticket based on that info, even if he/she had no other reason to give you a ticket.

Would such a thing be constitutional?

I believe so. A police officer who recognizes my face from a mugshot can stop and arrest me if I am wanted for a past offense, even if I abide by the laws at the time he sees me.

A License Plate number is a form of identification. While we usually cannot identify each other from it, it has always been used for DMV and police identification of vehicles.

The best counterargument I can come up with is that the car's registered owner might not be in the car.

I can envision probable cause for a police stop, based on the plate. The officer can confirm the identity of the driver and passengers. No doubt that the New York court system will test this argument pretty quickly -- and you will hear of the result.

[JohnSteel]

It's different than recognizing you from a mugshot. In that case the police have a reason to be out looking for you before they see you. You're allready suspected of soing something wrong. In this case they don't have any reason to look for you or suspect you of doing anything wrong untill after they see you and look up your information. You're not speeding, driving dangerously, ect. and your car looks fine.

[ThomasMore]

You're not speeding, driving dangerously, ect. and your car looks fine.

I would assume that you have to have a past violation which would justify a stop if the police knew who you are. This makes it easier for the police to identify you as someone who should be stopped for a past, unresolved violation.

If you live in a small town where everyone knows everyone, you have skipped bail, and a cop recognizes you, I see no reason why he couldn't stop and arrest you right there.

If, instead of skipping bail, you have enough unpaid tickets that your car can be impounded. The cop sees you parked legally, and calls a tow truck.

Either seems OK to me. This new technology just seems to be an aid to identification -- both who you are, and whether you are someone with violations warranting a stop.

[JohnSteel]

They don't need to know who you are before the automatic system looks up your licence plate. It is done automatically without the police officer doing anything or knowing anything about you.

[gnome]

It is unsettling, perhaps, that it's this easy for police. But I'm hard pressed to figure why it shouldn't be used. After all, it's just more efficient use of information they already rightly have--your license plate number, publically displayed, and your prior record. The same rules would apply if they happened to run every license plate manually.

[DoctorDoom]

It's not going to be even close to 100% effective, e.g., misreading a zero as the letter O or a 1 as an I. It has to deal with plates from other states and Canada. And with the demands put on it in heavy traffic, it will be all but useless for real-time activity. It's dubious whether it will be even marginally successful.

[Wolfcounsel]

The P-C weenies will crap all over themselves trying to come up with fool-proof ways to not accidentally stop illegals from driving, with this new "scanner" toy. Think of the lawsuits from La Raza and the ACLU!

[Rhino]

It is unsettling, perhaps, that it's this easy for police. But I'm hard pressed to figure why it shouldn't be used.What I would find unsettling is the notion that something that makes a policeman's job easier is not a good thing.

After all, it's just more efficient use of information they already rightly have--your license plate number, publically displayed, and your prior record. The same rules would apply if they happened to run every license plate manually.Exactly. This just automates an existing task.

[gnome]

What I would find unsettling is the notion that something that makes a policeman's job easier is not a good thing.

True, I should get into that. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a bad thing... it just causes me to worry a little. I can contemplate a future "surveillance society" where it is very easy for the government to track people's public motions and activities. The technology described here is a good example... others include cameras that can identify a face in a crowd, and I'm sure that there are lots of others.

While in a sense the law abiding citizen should have nothing to fear from this, it does give a sort of vulnerable fish-bowl feeling--like how it feels when a squad car follows you home. In addition, vast surveillance powers accumulated together can be a massive tool for abuse of privacy, or indeed political freedom, in the wrong hands.

So... am I actually opposed to this tool in particular? No. What I do want is an awareness of surveillance powers and technology, and a readiness to consider the checks and balances needed on any great power. It's the big picture I'm looking at.

[Wolfcounsel]

"So... am I actually opposed to this tool in particular? No. What I do want is an awareness of surveillance powers and technology, and a readiness to consider the checks and balances needed on any great power." --gnome

Yes. Exactly like what the Legislative branch with their thumbs up their asses is doing with the Judicial branch at this time, eh?

[gnome]

Well, I'm saying what I'd like, not that I necessarily expect to get it.

[Air Force Guy]

Catching bad guys quickly is a mandate of the police force. Anything that aids that goal is OK as long as innocents are not intentionally (or negligently) harmed. Why would anyone but a crook, a criminal lawyer or a wannabe crook want to impede that?

Obviously you can drive away from such a police stop if you have ID, as you should when driving, which proves you're not the person they're looking for. Also, it will be an interesting explanation why someone is driving a vehicle implicated in a felony. The driver might be a heretofore unknown accomplice. Bravo for the cop if that's the case.

[Timberwolf]

Check into the War on Drugs to find a whole host of issues concerning "unintended consequences".

[BabyBeastie]

It's not correct to equate this with any abuse of or blatant disregard for "Constitutional rights" because driving on public roads is not a Constitutional right. It is a privilege granted by your state.

Police have the ability to read license plates manually and look up information. They've been doing this for years. This machine just makes the process quicker.

It's all right with me. I've got nothing to hide. Not a damn thing.

[Timberwolf]

But, it IS a constitutional right to be "secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures..."

As I said, see the War on Drugs to see ALL kinds of unintended consequences...just because one is using a public highway doesn't give the police carte blanche. If they have your car ID'd as being is a certain place at a certain time, they can do anything they want to you. If you happen to be one who likes to hold your city/county officials noses to the grindstone (as it pertains to them executing their duties correctly...as I do), this could be used as a "weapon of intimidation" against you.

Not saying MOST would, but there is corruption in EVERY gov't agency...the police are no exception.

[BabyBeastie]

But, it IS a constitutional right to be "secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures..."

As I said, see the War on Drugs to see ALL kinds of unintended consequences...just because one is using a public highway doesn't give the police carte blanche. If they have your car ID'd as being is a certain place at a certain time, they can do anything they want to you. If you happen to be one who likes to hold your city/county officials noses to the grindstone (as it pertains to them executing their duties correctly...as I do), this could be used as a "weapon of intimidation" against you.

Not saying MOST would, but there is corruption in EVERY gov't agency...the police are no exception.There has been corruption everywhere there have been humans, but there is less of it within the group of people who make up the law enforcement community. One corrupt cop doesn't make all of them corrupt. It would be easy to say the same thing about people employed in almost any other profession. As for the elected officials and other politicians, well, that's going to be a different story. LOL

We all have Constitutional rights, but people also have to realize that law enforcement personnel will always have a certain amount of "power" over others. Which is fine with me because I don't get shot at everyday, either.

[jayson]

It's all right with me. I've got nothing to hide. Not a damn thing.

That's very dangerous thinking, because the people who say today, "I have nothing to hide" will be saying "I didn't know that was illegal" tomorrow.

The police are the end of the line. You can't "call 911" on the police. If they do something wrong or violate your rights, which happens every day in this country, you have no one to turn to. That's why the priority for me is to keep the police's power to a point where they have to work to get their job done.

Giving these sorts of gadgets to police forces is not a good thing. Historically, they have had to call into a dispatcher to get a 10-28 or 10-29 on the vehicle. This is why Americans can enjoy essentially anonymous and free travel throughout the United States, until they break a law. However, with systems like this in place that remove such time consuming bottlenecks, police forces are essentially "asking for your papers" without your consent or knowledge. Remember, in this country the police have no right to ask you for your ID without probable cause, whether on the road or not. Your personal rights do not end the instant you use a public road.

[Timberwolf]

Your personal rights do not end the instant you use a public road.
Ummm....actually they do...to a degree. YOU did not construct that road, the government did and, therefore, you have no right to use them...it's a privilege extended to us by the government. If we had the RIGHT to drive, the government could not require you to possess a driver's license and insurance on your vehicle. They also could not impose speed limits nor enforce them.

Mind you, I don't like these plate readers at all because of the abuses inherent in utilizing them (see War on Drugs). The Law of Unintended Consequences applies.

[jayson]

Ummm....actually they do...to a degree. YOU did not construct that road, the government did and, therefore, you have no right to use them...it's a privilege extended to us by the government.

True, but I was referring to personal liberties. Everything from your right to free speech to search and seizure is not forfeited because you use a public road. A police officer must still have probable cause before he or she can pull you over, and consequently obtain your ID. Sometimes this is asinine (broken tail light), but it's still considered legal.

[gnome]

But, they have the right to run your publically displayed license plate through their computer any time they want. Or do they?

But if you agree that they do, really this is just an automatic system for doing the same thing, only really, really often!

[Rhino]

But, they have the right to run your publically displayed license plate through their computer any time they want. Or do they?Yes, they do, and personal rights are not an issue. They are not Id'ing the person. They are ID'ing the vehicle registration, which they have a perfect right to do.

But if you agree that they do, really this is just an automatic system for doing the same thing, only really, really often!Pretty much.

[BuckeyeMike]

Remember when they wanted to put those little black boxes under the seats of new cars that would amount to the same as "black boxes" found on aircraft? They could extrapolate data from those under-the-seat boxes to determine all kinds of stuff that could incriminate you if you were involved in an accident.
If I'm not mistaken, they were yanked when it was determined that it was a form of "self incrimination". Couldn't these license plates fall under the same thing? Just askin'!

[Rhino]

Some cars have those boxes now.

[Sarah]

New York State Police have a new technology that automatically reads your licence plate as you drive past a police car and looks up information on you. That info is then automatically displayed to the cop. The cop then will give you a ticket based on that info, even if he/she had no other reason to give you a ticket.

Would such a thing be constitutional?
It is legal because driving is a privilege and not a right so I've been told. Besides that is no different then what cops normally do, run your plate when they pull up behind you at a traffic light.