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Neil Peart
10-08-2007, 09:08 PM
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=273790988274527

Imagine! Life Without Health Insurance
by Thomas Sowell

During the first 30 years of my life, I had no health insurance. Neither did a lot of other people in those days.

During those 30 years, I had a broken arm, a broken jaw, a badly injured shoulder and miscellaneous other medical problems. To say that my income was below average during those years would be a euphemism.

How did I manage? The same way everybody else managed: I went to doctors, and I paid them directly, instead of paying indirectly through taxes.

This was all before politicians gave us the idea that the things we could not afford individually we could somehow afford collectively through the magic of government.

Post Edited to comply with board policy by Hms

dPrasse
10-08-2007, 09:20 PM
Well , without insurance , my little boy would have died ... hospital room at $800.00 day for 4 months ...then another 3 weeks when he was 18 months , another 3-4 week stay coming up ... that doesn't even take into account 6 surgeries , supplies , ect ect ect ...


His 50.00 for a broken jaw won't even get one an office visit for a sinus infection ...

yeah , Sowell has some points , yet , on this he's reminicing about a time gone by ...

a time that HIS generation was at watch and let it go down the toilet ...

Timberwolf
10-09-2007, 12:25 AM
Medicare is THE reason healthcare costs are so high. The ease by which the government is "defrauded" is laughable.

The best way to get healthcare costs AND insurance premiums down is to completely scrap any kind of government program which is associated with the industry and let private insurers COMPETE once again...because, presently, the competition is an illusion because there's a "false floor" created by government reimbursement.

Oh, and get rid of the friggin drug ads on TV, in the newspapers and magazines. I can remember when advertising PRESCRIPTION drugs was a crime.

Jester21
10-09-2007, 12:52 AM
I'm not completely opposed to Sowell's viewpoint here, but I think he's failed to grasp that health care costs have skyrocketed since he was young.

Beowulf
10-09-2007, 01:55 AM
Yes, Jester, healthcare costs HAVE skyrocketed but with the government forcing the medicaid bill for welfare recipients upon those who have private insurance and frivelous lawsuits causing those premiums to further increase doesn't help.
Also, many doctors get out of the medical field due to these frivelous lawsuits making malpractice insurance so undaffordable. Then we have the problem where someone has to pay the healthcare costs of illegals, another burden put on those of us who carry private insurance.
It's a ripple effect. Get people off of lazyfare, close the border and get people out of the "get rich quick" mentality and things will improve.

Gonzo67
10-09-2007, 04:26 AM
Also, many doctors get out of the medical field due to these frivelous lawsuits making malpractice insurance so undaffordable.


I agree with everything else Beo... but the above statement holds no water.

Take it from someone who's family is currently dealing with the effects of Medical malpractice.

It infuriates me that the medical, insurance, and legal "industry" in this country can be as "out of touch" as it currently is. When a woman can spill hot coffee in her lap and sue for millions of dollars, when a person can be "grievously injured" by a person who called him or her a "nigger" and be awarded a multi-million dollar settlement, and then a woman who's life has been drastically altered, and quite nearly destroyed, and an entire family effectively devastated as a result is told that she and her family will just have to suffer, and take it on the chin for 3 years or more, after which time IF a settlement is awarded in her favor, there's a limit to how much she can be compensated for her destroyed life and the devastation of her family because there's a CAP on how much a doctors malpractice insurance has to pay.

There's no cap on stupidity. Spill coffee in your lap as a result of your own stupidity... Act like an asshole till someone CALLS you one, and in BOTH cases, you can receive a bank account to rival Bill Gates. Someone calls you a name, it has NO effect on your life, you suffer NO physical injury, and you're quality of life is not diminished in the least, and you're entitled to a 25 million dollar settlement.

But a doctor screws up, and as a result, you're confined to a wheel chair for the rest of your life, you're unable to do something as simple as go to the bathroom to take a piss without assistance, you are unable to traverse the 15 feet from the recliner to your bed at night without someone to help you every step of the way, and you're told that the Government must protect the doctor so HIS insurance premiums don't go up.

I'm sorry Beo... I have no sympathy for the doctors. I have no love for the insurance companies. I have no compassion when the Doctor cries about the rising cost in his insurance.

You know, so many people LOVE to say that the reason the doctors malpractice insurance goes up is because the Doctors get sued for Malpractice.

I tend to look at it from another perspective. From the perspective of a person who's family has been a victim of Malpractice on more than 1 occasion, and has never sued a doctor until this most recent incidence.

From my perspective, I would say that the reason the doctors malpractice insurance went up is because the doctor was a fuking asshole who screwed up and destroyed the life of a patient.

When a radio show host screws up and calls someone a nappy headed ho... no one is physically injured. When a fast food chain screws up and forgets to tell some dumb shit idiot something so blatantly obvious like "Hot coffee is HOT", the dumb bitch that got her cooch singed is not PHYSICALLY HARMED for life. Yet they are awarded millions. But when a Doctor fuks up... Let's just say that Death is not always the worse that can happen.

But God forbid the poor, misunderstood, and defenseless doctor have to suffer the burden of a higher insurance premium. Let's put a cap on how much the patient who's life has been destroyed can receive in compensation.

I don't think people really understand. You could not POSSIBLY understand unless you're going through it, or have gone through it yourself.

In my mothers case, it's not just the PHYSICAL damage that she's suffered. She used to look forward to time off work so she could take a trip to Michigan to visit her daughter and her grand children. She can't do that any more because it's extremely painful for her to be in a car for the 10 to 12 hour drive. She used to like playing Bingo. She's not able to enjoy that now because of her medication, to stay sitting up that long in an uncomfortable wheel chair for that long is nearly impossible.

She used to like the fact that she worked in a profession that very few women worked in, bringing home a second income. But there's not much work for a female electrician who's paralyzed in half her body and confined to a wheel chair. She can no longer go for a walk in the woods that surrounds her house. She can no longer go out and get in her car and drive somewhere that she needs, or wants to go. She can no longer live an independent life. Feed herself, clothe herself, bathe herself.

A doctor took ALL that away from her. All that and more.

But let's be sure to put a cap on what her life was worth so the doctors malpractice insurance doesn't go up.

Sorry... I just can't find it within me to feel the least amount of sympathy for doctors and the rising cost of their insurance.

Trovalor
10-09-2007, 04:56 AM
Maybe the reason crap like that happens in the first place is because all the good doctors are run off by frivolous lawsuits, or they realize the real money is in cosmetic surgery. Do you realize that the difference in insurance premiums for a doctor compared to someone who is only professionally licensed to do the exact same thing is a bare minimum of 5 times more?

My friend and his wife own an Electrolysis and Laser center, and he has to pay around $5000 a year in insurance (this has been jumping in leaps and bounds over the past few years). A Doctor who does the exact same thing would have to pay a minimum of $27500 because they are considered a higher risk of being sued for malpractice.

Lets face it, when your over stressed, over worked, and understaffed, its only a matter of time until you screw up. And really, should it be the doctor taking the fall for this, or the hospital that hired them in the first place? If the hospital were getting sued, you can bet they would be making changes to make sure they staff properly and keep up with proper evaluations. But they are more than happy to throw a doctor to the wolves.

It doesn't pay any more to be a doctor in the medical field.

DoctorDoom
10-09-2007, 07:51 AM
There are obviously incompetent doctors, but is that a reason to condemn all doctors?

(CBS) Dr. Paul Tudder figures he's delivered about 4,000 babies in 21 years, and in that time, he's never been sued.

Yet, as CBS News Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson reports, his malpractice insurance has gone through the roof. His premium was $23,000 in 2002. Then it jumped to $47,000. This year, he got a quote for $84,000.

"It puts me on yearly notice," says Tudder. "This year I think we can survive, but next year I don't know."High Cost Of Malpractice Insurance (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/02/eveningnews/consumer/main610102.shtml)

$84,000 is a shitload of bucks to demand from a doctor whose career has been blameless. The shortage of physicians will only increase as the premiums take larger and larger bites from their income.

HomeschoolrsRUs
10-09-2007, 08:44 AM
I feel like I have a somewhat unique perspective on this issue.

1) I have lived most of my married life (coming up on 20 years now) without medical insurance. As it happens, my husband's insurance WOULD cover us all, but the family costs by the insurance company (Blue +, Blue Sheild) cut so deep into Bubba's paycheck there's no way it would have been feasible. Not to mention, we had to choose the highest deductible with the least amount of coverage to even be close enough to handle the employee's portion of the cost. However, we were able to get insurance on the children through the state insurance offered for children (FL Healthy Kids), which covered(s - I still have a 16 year old under this insurance, but my 18 year old is on his own for insurance now), ALL the medical problems my chidlren had (which was extensive when they were younger -- my son had severe respiratory difficulties, a condition called Constitutional Growth Delay (CGD), at one time they thought he had Cystic Fibrosis, etc., and my daughter was born with a heart murmur, she had siezures as a baby, gastro-intestinal problems, etc.) At one point we DID have diffculty with HealthyKids because they refused to pay for a medication my son needed for his CGD, but we appealed to the drug company directly, and they provided assistance.

Howeve, I was unable to get any insurance, the cost is just too high. I've had several medical issues (broke both my ankles, had to have emergency surgery for a female issue, went to the emergency room twice for my back (a pinched nerve) once for pneumonia). Without any insurance, I got on a payment plan. I have paid off all but my emergency surgery, and I've been steady paying on that every since I went through it.

As for the issue regarding doctors and medical malpractice, a doctor caused my father's death, plain and simple, and another doctor absolutely saved my son's life. In my father's case, he had gone in for some type of in-patient laser procedure on his foot. Well, my father has diabetes, and as a result, had little to no feeling in his foot. The doctor left the laser on, or focused too long, on one spot and he developed a wound. They did NOT however tell my father of this, only put a little bandaid over it and said he could take it off in a couple of days. My father was a big man, he couldn't see the bottom of his foot, so forgot about it after the three days when he took the bandaid off. A couple of weeks later he was going to the bathroom, and as he was standing at the toilet, his foot simply gave out. My mom had to call an ambulance. At the emergency room the doctors found a huge hole in my dad's foot. Long story short, his foot ended up having to be amputated, he had developed gangrene. Just a bit later he developed all sorts of complications, and he died.

My son on the other hand, had many problems as a child, but it wasn't until we faced his death we found a doctor who I believe is God's gift to this world. We went through three pediatricians over my son's medical conditon, none seeming to really care, or know, what was going on with him. After missing so much time from work, I was blessed that my mom offered to keep my son for half a week during another bout of stomach problems. The day we were supposed to meet for me to pick him up, my mom called and said he had developed chicken-pox, and that she would keep him another three days until he was no longer contagious. After the three days when I went to get him, we met at our usual spot in a city halfway between our two homes. When I got there, my mom quickly got out of the car with my son hanging limp in her arms, his eyes rolled back in his head -- she was crying, and said she didn't know what was wrong with him, that he had gotten steadily worse after the chicken pox were found. We took him straight to the emergency room, where we found a doctor-angel on-call, Dr. Landay, who diagnosed my son with chicken pox, a blood infection, a stool infection, and pneuomia. He LITERALLY saved my son's life ... and became our pediatrician the MOMENT he started taking new patients. Dr. Landay gave us medications when we couldn't afford it, saw my son after hours, many times he wouldn't even charge us because we had to go in over several days, among other small and large actions which, imho, puts him in the Doctor's Hall of Fame. At first my children's medical insurance didn't cover Dr.Landay, and during that time he worked with us to help. I really believe this man became a doctor because he IS a healer at heart, and not for the money.

All that being said, I absolutely agree regarding the insidious nature of government supplied, and privately offered health insurance. I have no doubt at all that IF an insurance system (starting with medicaid) had not been developed ...

1. ...we wouldn't see the exorbitant amount of medical malpractice, because good doctors would not be run off by rising insurance costs,

2. ...bad doctors would be more easily and readily identified, prosecuted, sued, lose their licenses, etc., thereby reducing the risk of more bad doctors staying in the game facing the same,

3. ...medical costs would be marginal, because the doctors wouldn't have the need to inflate their costs to cover themselves,

4. ...and the medical care would be better, because we would go back to a time when people wanted to be physicians because they wanted to HELP, not because they wanted to get rich.

There will always be bad doctors, and medical science is not a exact one. There will be accidents, tragedies, and crimes, because there's no such place as Utopia. But if we were to do away with the built in crime ready mechinism of insurance, I believe we would all be better off.

Besides, don't you know, the Government runs EVERYTHING.

Naturalized-Texan
10-09-2007, 09:45 AM
Neil Peart:

Did you get Dr. Sowell's permission to post his entire copyrighted column? If not, please follow board rules (http://www.freeconservatives.com/index.php?page=policy) and only post no more than 25% of his column. If you don't delete the excess, I'll ask one of the Administrators to do so.

DoctorDoom
10-09-2007, 10:21 AM
New members tend to be unaware of the board's restrictions on article length. Ergo, here's a refresher from the Policy (http://www.freeconservatives.com/index.php?page=policy) page.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this Forum to post any material which is in violation of any existing and applicable copyright laws. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by FreeConservatives, or you have permission from the author. When posting articles, you MUST provide a link back to the original article or clearly define a searchable source. In accordance with the Fair Use Provision of the Copyright Act, we ask that you post ONLY the relevant portion(s) of the article, generally limiting your post to about 400 words of quoted material, and never exceeding 25% of the total article.

Nutrider99
10-09-2007, 10:39 AM
Well , without insurance , my little boy would have died ... hospital room at $800.00 day for 4 months ...then another 3 weeks when he was 18 months , another 3-4 week stay coming up ... that doesn't even take into account 6 surgeries , supplies , ect ect ect ...
No, he wouldn't have died, but you would have been up to your neck in medical bills. That's why as a responsible adult you PAID THE PREMIUMS and BOUGHT medical insurance. I pay $102. per week for health insurance and fortunately I have not used the first dime of it.
Medicare is THE reason healthcare costs are so high. The ease by which the government is "defrauded" is laughable.
No, actually we can blame trial lawyers like John Edwards who have made billions of dollars suing doctors and insurance companies. All of that money did not come from the sky. It came from people like you and me who have to pay enormous sums of money for insurance because of the cost of malpractice coverage. However, if federalized, it will become even LESS efficient, costing us more and delivering less.
I'm not completely opposed to Sowell's viewpoint here, but I think he's failed to grasp that health care costs have skyrocketed since he was young.
Sowell hasn't failed to grasp anything. The man is an absolute genius and has the credentials to back it up. Sowell knows the REASON costs have gone up, and understands that the solution lies with capitalism, not socialism. Stop making millionaires of ambulance chasing frauds like John Edwards and you'll save the industry billions. Then let capitalism work its magic on cost reductions.
I'm sorry Beo... I have no sympathy for the doctors. I have no love for the insurance companies. I have no compassion when the Doctor cries about the rising cost in his insurance.
He doesn't just cry. He passes on the costs to the consumer, like any other business person does.
From my perspective, I would say that the reason the doctors malpractice insurance went up is because the doctor was a fuking asshole who screwed up and destroyed the life of a patient....
But God forbid the poor, misunderstood, and defenseless doctor have to suffer the burden of a higher insurance premium. Let's put a cap on how much the patient who's life has been destroyed can receive in compensation.
Ever wonder how accidents happen so often? When those who engage in frivalous lawsuits steal from their neighbors, they also clog the court system so that those seeking redress have to wait 3 years and suffer in the mean time. The doctors, who are most likely a half million in debt by the time they actually get a chance to begin earning, have very little time to spend with each patient. Consequently, an overworked surgeon follows a chart that was miswritten and the wrong surgery is performed. The wrong leg is amputated. The wrong lung is removed. A person dies. The root cause is the system which puts the surgeon under so much pressure he can't spend time with each patient. How much value do you put on that life lost? Is any amount enough?

Do you think it's fair to make millionaires of people who suffer losses? If a driver makes a mistake and cripples you, is that any different than being crippled by a surgeon? I agree in the fair settlment of damages, but the torte system is so out of whack no body can even OFFER a settlement for fear that offer will be used against them in a much larger settlement. A man who makes $60,000. per year and has 20 years left to earn will make $1.2 million. However, $1 million put into trust @ 10% return will MORE THAN replace his wages. Why, then, should he receive $20 million?

On the subject of mothers, mine died because she couldn't afford chemo after her employer fired her because, in their words, "Cancer patients are unreliable."
I feel like I have a somewhat unique perspective on this issue.
1) I have lived most of my married life (coming up on 20 years now) without medical insurance. As it happens, my husband's insurance WOULD cover us all, but the family costs by the insurance company (Blue +, Blue Sheild) cut so deep into Bubba's paycheck there's no way it would have been feasible. Not to mention, we had to choose the highest deductible with the least amount of coverage to even be close enough to handle the employee's portion of the cost. However, we were able to get insurance on the children through the state insurance offered for children...
I believe that in the long run it's far less expensive for the state to help with insurance premiums than for it to pick up the medical expenses. When my brother died, the state of Michigan picked up medical expenses in excess of $2 million for a lifetime of illness. Had there been an insurance pool regulated by market forces and protected from frivolous lawsuits from those seeking the lawyer lottery, it would have cost them a lot less. My brother had Jouvenile Onset Diabetes and was never eligible for insurance coverage. i.e., it was always a pre-existing condition. That's an extreme case, though. Most medical expenses don't come anywhere near that, and if they do, there is a catastrophic insurance pool.

Still, your husband chose the work he does and his salary reflects that. As adults, we are all the products of our choices. Sometimes our choices leave us poor, sometimes rich, sometimes happy and sometimes miserable. You chose to be with him. I chose to do what I do. I'm not rich either. Still, I'm married to a wonderful woman and God has blessed my life as I know He has blessed yours. Regardless, the answers to the health care issues lie with capitalism and protection from the trial lawyers who are bleeding us all dry.

HomeschoolrsRUs
10-09-2007, 10:45 AM
Still, your husband chose the work he does and his salary reflects that. As adults, we are all the products of our choices. Sometimes our choices leave us poor, sometimes rich, sometimes happy and sometimes miserable. You chose to be with him.

Absolutely, and I make no excuses for it. Which is why even after everything I said, I am completely against the idea of "insurance" whether it be private or government.

Regardless, the answers to the health care issues lie with capitalism and protection from the trial lawyers who are bleeding us all dry.

I concur.

Jack_Savage
10-09-2007, 11:28 AM
Can't take one ingrediant out of the cake mix. Its a different world WE have created and health insurance is a requirement. My wife takes tons of medications, just one of which costs $800.00 per month. I suppose if some crystal-ball gazing prophet knows that they arn't going to have several herniated disc's from stepping off the curb wrong, or from a simple task of taking out the garbage, then by all means don't get the coverage.

For the rest of us, after what my wife and I have gone through, I recommend playing the hand we delt ourselves, and get the insurance. The medical minefield has grown into an ugly monster that has no thought about what is fair, or right.

Naturalized-Texan
10-09-2007, 12:08 PM
I'm not completely opposed to Sowell's viewpoint here, but I think he's failed to grasp that health care costs have skyrocketed since he was young.
I'm sure that he is as aware of the increased costs of health care as he is of the fact that those costs were driven upward by federal government policies. Had the government kept its nose out of the health care system, costs would have remained low and affordable to the point that the vast majority of us could pay for medical care in the same manner as we pay groceries - by cash, check, credit card.

When he and I were young (he was born 2 years before I was), medical care was provided to all whether we could afford to pay or not. Physicians would run a tab on those who could not afford to pay and if the people were able pay at some time in the future, they would do so. If not, the physicians would just write it off.

TeenageRepublican
10-09-2007, 12:41 PM
Life without health insurance...why can I imagine this?

Gonzo67
10-09-2007, 01:45 PM
Lets face it, when your over stressed, over worked, and understaffed, its only a matter of time until you screw up. And really, should it be the doctor taking the fall for this, or the hospital that hired them in the first place?


I agree, but right now it's NEITHER taking the fall for it. The patient takes the fall. The patient is told:

"Yes, I know the doctor screwed up. He screwed up because the hospital he works for has cut back on employees, forced the doctor to over-work himself, and made an environment where mistakes MUST happen. We're sorry the stressed out Doctor has crippled you for the rest of your life. We're only going to let you sue him for this amount of money though. Now, if he had called you a "Nappy Headed Ho", well, then we would have fired him and gave you a king's ransome... but all he did was end your life... sorry... sucks to be you!"


There are obviously incompetent doctors, but is that a reason to condemn all doctors?


you are correct Doc, and on the other side of the coin... There are obviously ambulance chasing hacks and piece of shit citizens out to sue anyone and everyone they can... but is that a reason to condemn ALL victims of malpractice?

Perhaps instead of setting a limit on the worth of a persons life, they could address the problem where it's REALLY occuring... in the courts.

When a person goes to court to sue someone for $30,000,000.00 because they called them a "Nigger", or "Kike", or "Wet-Back", maybe the judge should rule that no PHYSICAL harm has been done. Rule that it is a frivolous law suit, and fine the person filing the suit. Fine the lawyer that agreed to take the case. With a charge of "Frivolous Case" on the Lawyers record, and any more that follows, make it a reason to Disbar the attorney.

Any Judge that allows a frivolous case to proceed should be removed from the bench. If a case is herd, and the ambulance chaser is awarded the verdict, if it's appealed because it's frivolous, then let a higher court find it as such and remove both the attorney that took the case, and the judge that agreed to clog the court system with the case. Throw the asshole seeking millions for nothing in jail to SERVE the system, not milk the system.

In any case, the punishment should be placed where it BELONGS. Not on the victims of a legitimate case of malpractice.

Over time, I believe you will see hospitals improve. They will hire the doctors that are needed to keep the work loads manageable. They will Hire competent doctors, and fire the incompetent.

The court systems will improve because we will eventually have only judges who are not willing to risk their job to hear a frivolous case. Lawyers like Gloria Alred and John Edwards will have been disbarred, etc.

If you put the blame and the penalty where it BELONGS, instead of allowing a bunch of sharks in suits to pass the buck so many times you loose track of where it stopps... I honestly believe things WILL improve. Hell, they can't get much worse.


Do you think it's fair to make millionaires of people who suffer losses? If a driver makes a mistake and cripples you, is that any different than being crippled by a surgeon?


You are absolutely correct. If the driver of a car screws up and cripples someone, that is no different than a Doctor screwing up and crippling someone.

So why then is there no Cap on what that driver and their insurance can be sued for?

Why hasn't anyone come forward and said "Yes, the driver was drunk, behind the wheel when they shouldn't have been, and as a result, this person lost their life. But, the victims of this driver are only allowed to sue for up to this amount, and no more"?

If there is no difference between the two, why is one limited in the penalty he pays for his mistakes, and the other not?

Do you think it's fair to tell someone who's life has been ended in such a way that we feel your life was only worth THIS amount of money. We're going to allow the Doctor who crippled you to CONTINUE to make his high wages. To continue to enjoy his golf games. To continue to enjoy going on vacations, visiting his relatives out of state. We're going to allow the doctor to CONTINUE to enjoy his life of luxury, even though he took all that away from you.

Because that is EXACTLY what they said to my mother. That is EXACTLY what they are saying to EVERY legitimate victim of a doctors negligence. In my mothers case, that is EXACTLY what took place. A Negligent doctor. Her symptoms were so obvious that when I took her to the emergency room, I TOLD them what was wrong with her. They have a poster on the wall listing the symptoms of a stroke, and of the 13 symptoms listed, she had 12 of them. I have no medical training. I did not go to school for 7 years to become a doctor, and I still KNEW she was having a stroke.

The doctors ignored that. They refused to treat her for a stroke. That is not a case of being "over worked". That is NOT a case of being "stressed out". That is nothing more than being a case of NOT GIVING A SHIT. Of NOT doing their job.

And as a result, the doctor doesn't pay. He's still at work in that hospital now. He still enjoys his golf games. He still gets in his car and goes where he wants to go, when he wants to go there. He can still play in the yard with his kids, his grandkids, the dog...

And my mother gets to sit in a wheel chair, unable to go take a piss by herself.

Do you call that "fair"?


When he and I were young (he was born 2 years before I was), medical care was provided to all whether we could afford to pay or not. Physicians would run a tab on those who could not afford to pay and if the people were able pay at some time in the future, they would do so. If not, the physicians would just write it off.


Exactly Nat... that was when a person became a doctor because they wanted to spend their life helping people. They wanted a meaningful life, not a fat bank account.

Beowulf
10-09-2007, 02:40 PM
I understand what you said, Gonzo, and I sympathize. I was just making a general statement about malpractice. Most doctors are pretty good and some get wrongly sued I'm sure but there are a few bad ones as well. I just think we live in a sue-happy society although your case sounds pretty legit to me.

Naturalized-Texan
10-09-2007, 03:14 PM
The sad truth about Doctors (as well as those in many other professions) is that about 50% of them graduated in the bottom half of their class.

Maggie_T
10-09-2007, 04:40 PM
*S N O R T*

Wait till we have socialized medicine. Then you'll see what England saw: all the good doctors emigrated, and patients were left at the mercy of the mediocre ones. Local AND imported.

DesertFox
10-09-2007, 06:05 PM
I discussed medical malpractice insurance with my family doc awhile back. He says the guys who get sued are the guys who don't have a personal relationship with the patient. Mostly that means specialists who come in for a special reason and then they're outta the picture again. His example was orthopedists. He (my doc), for example, has an excellent way with people. He might send a guy to an orthopedist for specialized surgery. The orthopedist and the patient never get to know each other. If the ortho makes even a slight mistake, the patient may well sue him out the ying yang. But if my doc makes a mistake, it's highly unlikely anybody would sue him because he's such a good guy and people are genuinely glad to see him when they go in for a consultation -- even me.

Naturalized-Texan
10-09-2007, 09:42 PM
*S N O R T*

Wait till we have socialized medicine. Then you'll see what England saw: all the good doctors emigrated, and patients were left at the mercy of the mediocre ones. Local AND imported.
In Canada, it behooves one not to get sick in the 4th Quarter of the year. Doctors in Canada have a limit to what they can earn. Naturally, the best Doctors earn their limit well before the end of the year, some as early as September or October. Then they are forced to close up shop and lay off their staffs. Many of them go to Florida for the last 3 months of the year to practice as the snow birds come south for the winter. Then in the 4th Quarter in Canada only the less competent (the bottom half of their classes) are available to treat patients.