Jimmy Carter: U.S. tortures prisoners

[Suzie]

Jimmy Carter: U.S. tortures prisoners

<!-- BEGIN STORY BODY --> 9 minutes ago

<!-- end storyhdr --> WASHINGTON - The U.S. tortures prisoners in violation of international law, former President Jimmy Carter said Wednesday, adding that President Bush makes up his own definition of torture.


MORE HERE (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071011/ap_on_re_us/carter_white_house;_ylt=AtT2hueSp18IpQ73a8F81tas0N UE)

Somebody do something with this guy. :flame:

[Jester21]

What is the definition of torture?

I have no idea if it violates international law, because I don't know what the standard is. But pretending to drown people, beating them, forcing them into stress positions.....sounds like torture to me. Not as bad as some countries do, but I don't think Syria or Iran is the example we want to follow.

[d'urville]

Yes, Carter's latest baseless accusation - I almost posted it in the "dead Baptist in Gaza) thread, wrong Baptist.

Carter's also called Cheney a "disaster", that would be a better description of the Carter-Mondale administration.


Cheney has been on the wrong side of the debate on many issues, including an internal White House discussion over Syria in which the vice president is thought to be pushing a tough approach, Carter said.

"He's a militant who avoided any service of his own in the military and he has been most forceful in the last 10 years or more in fulfilling some of his more ancient commitments that the United States has a right to inject its power through military means in other parts of the world," Carter told the BBC in an interview to air later on Wednesday.

LINK (http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1026419120071010?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews)

Now, the "torture" remarks come from an interview by Wolf Blitzer over at the Communist News Network:


BLITZER: But by your definition, you believe the United States, under this administration, has used torture.

CARTER: I don't think it, I know it, certainly.

BLITZER: So is the president lying?

CARTER: The president is self-defining what we have done and authorized in the torture of prisoners, yes.


LINK (http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/10/carter-us-has-t.html)

Saudi Arabia's sock poppet.

[Jester21]

^ I'm guessing people are going to freak out over this, but if you found out that one of our citizens was treated this way by another country, would you be angry? Would you think this was inappropriate? You bet your ass you would.

[d'urville]

^ You don't seem to understand...it's less credible to me that "Bush totured prisoners" because Carter said it.

He speaks for Saudi Arabia only.

^ I'm guessing people are going to freak out over this, but if you found out that one of our citizens was treated this way by another country, would you be angry? Would you think this was inappropriate? You bet your ass you would.

"Our citizens"? Captured terrorists, you mean?


Do you have ANY idea of the way Americans that are captured are treated by these very same people?

[Suzie]

^ I'm guessing people are going to freak out over this, but if you found out that one of our citizens was treated this way by another country, would you be angry? Would you think this was inappropriate? You bet your ass you would.

In other countries they rarely survive long enough for us to find out any way other than marks on the body. On the other hand there is a way to be sure no prisoners will be tortured, if you get rid of them right there on the spot. If you take no prisoners there are no prisoners to worry about.

[Jester21]

You don't seem to understand...it's less credible to me that "Bush totured prisoners" because Carter said it.

Well, Carter's a twit, but I don't disagree with him classifying the treatment as torture.

"Our citizens"? Captured terrorists, you mean?

Or people like this guy. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/03/AR2005120301476.html)

Do you have ANY idea of the way Americans that are captured are treated by these very same people?<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
Which does not make it ok to do the same. I'm sorry, but torture is wrong.

[bigred1says]

On the other hand there is a way to be sure no prisoners will be tortured, if you get rid of them right there on the spot. If you take no prisoners there are no prisoners to worry about.

:claps:Thats the answer to the problem. Be sure to invite Jimma to stand right beside them when it's done.

[d'urville]

Okay!
Well, Carter's a twit, but I don't disagree with him classifying the treatment as torture.
Oh, you do?
Torture, how? Even Carter admits it can be "redefined" at will. Just like anti-American political posturing by bitter old men can be a "subjective process".

Or people like this guy. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/03/AR2005120301476.html)

It was his word, and his word only. Still he was a German citizen accused of being a terrorist. In all fairness, dailykos corroberated his story as well:

LINK (http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/newspaper/printedition/wednesday/chi-detain10oct10,0,7008073.story)

Unfounded and baseless, like anything Jimmuh ever says.

Which does not make it ok to do the same. I'm sorry, but torture is wrong.
And whoever said anyone thought "torture" was okay? Besides you and Carter?

[stegjohn]

First of all Jimmy, the people involved in the Abu Ghraib incident have been punished. We deal with rouge elements in our ranks. Same thing goes with Guantanamo. That gets people's panties in a knot over in the Middle East and U.S. personnel die.

[Jester21]

Torture, how? Even Carter admits it can be "redefined" at will.
I think beating prisoners, waterboarding, etc is torture. I think the general rule of thumb is: if you're not sure whether what you're doing is torture or not, it probably is. The fact that there's even a debate surrounding this is very disappointing to me, and I have very low expectations for the public in general.

Just like anti-American political posturing by bitter old men can be a "subjective process".

How on earth is it anti-American? We're torturing people. Not calling attention to it would be anti-American.

Now, if your problem with Carter is that as an ex-President he's criticizing the current one, then yeah that's a fair point, I realize that there's an unwritten rule that he's breaking by doing that.

It was his word, and his word only.
Well, I'm inclined to believe him when he says he was kidnapped, stripped, beaten, drugged, and thrown in a cell for several months, all while being 'interrogated'. For the government to cite state secrets privilege tells me that something happened. Where there's smoke there's fire.

Still he was a German citizen accused of being a terrorist.
Because he has a name similar to an actual terrorist. We're getting away from torture, but doesn't that concern you at all? You can be picked up off the street because of your name?

And whoever said anyone thought "torture" was okay?
It's kind of implied that the government thinks it's okay when they authorize "harsh interrogation techniques" that pretty much amount to torture.

First of all Jimmy, the people involved in the Abu Ghraib incident have been punished.
This goes beyond Abu Ghraib. What's going on now has been authorized. These aren't rogue soldiers doing it, these are people who are being told "yeah, go ahead, beat them, drown them, freeze them, whatever--just make sure you get some information out of them."

[Beowulf]

OK, Jester, answer this question directly. If torturing a terror suspect yields information that saves just one member of your family from getting killed, is it worth it? I say yes.

Remember, these people have no problem torturing you and no matter what you tell them, they will probably kill you anyway. I have no problems using force to get out of them what we need.

[Wolfcounsel]

"But pretending to drown people, beating them, forcing them into stress positions.....sounds like torture to me." --Jester21

You're absolutely right, Jester. I nominate you to join Carter to go with him to Saudi Arabia and Iran and tell the authorities there to stop their silly torture of prisoners also. Humanity demands it of them.

[Jester21]

OK, Jester, answer this question directly. If torturing a terror suspect yields information that saves just one member of your family from getting killed, is it worth it?
Yes.

The problem, though, is that you're not sure it's going to result in saving a member of your family. You can't point to any one person and say "this person is alive today because we tortured terrorist X". It's a giant fishing expedition, and anyways from what I've heard, torturing isn't even the most effective way of interrogating someone.

You're absolutely right, Jester. I nominate you to join Carter to go with him to Saudi Arabia and Iran and tell the authorities there to stop their silly torture of prisoners also. Humanity demands it of them.
Just because other countries do it does not make it ok.

[DoctorDoom]

The jerkster is fixated again. Expect 17,966 more posts on the definition of torture.

Boy, if torture saves lives, I say use it, and screw child's play like waterboarding.

As for that sleazy prick Carter, has anyone noticed that Republican former presidents never attack their peers, but that the RAT assholes like the peanut farmer do nothing but attack? That senile son of a bitch needs to be put in a home and forgotten along with the election that sent him to the WH. He's a shit stain on the fabric of America.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Just because other countries do it does not make it ok." --Jester21

Okay. Go pick on them first. You and your boy Jimmy. Go on. Git!:punish:<!-- / message -->

[Jester21]

If you guys want to talk about what a jerk Jimmy Carter is, then fine, let me know and I'll stop talkng about torture. I'm just surprised that the issue seems to be 'man what a jerk jimmy is', instead of 'our government is torturing people'.

[The_Elucidator]

Let me preface this post by saying that Jester is an idiot.

With that being said:

Just a few examples!

Torture by my definition, but fun and games by Islamic definition:

Physical

- Being dipped in acid vats an inch at a time.
- Being slowly dropped into an industrial plastic shredder an inch at a time.
- Having your hands bound and thrown off a 3 story building.
- Having your head sawed off by a semi dull knife while being fully awake

Emotional/Physical

- Having your husband/father shot in front of you and you having to pay for the bullet.
- Having your children raped in front of you and being forced to watch.
- Having your children stung by hundreds of bees while you are
forced to watch

ALL of this was going on in Iraq before we "LIBERATED" them.

[DoctorDoom]

The REAL torture is being exposed to the crap from Soros the Nazi collaborator.

If you guys want to talk about what a jerk Jimmy Carter is, then fine, let me know and I'll stop talkng about torture.You won't stop for at least a week. It's your latest idée fixe.

I'm just surprised that the issue seems to be 'man what a jerk jimmy is', instead of 'our government is torturing people'.PROVE IT! The bullshit from America-loathing "peace" pukes is NOT proof. Provide irrefutable evidence from objective sources to support your charge or be still.

Reality time: we are warring against an enemy with no compunction about torturing people just because they like to do it. They are barbarians and they are ruthless. You don't fight those savages by being nice. You don't talk with them or share a pot of tea with them.

If torturing those medieval monsters gains information that will save lives or further our military goals, then it's not only permissible but necessary. If you don't like that real-world approach, pick up your phone and call some fellow bleeding-heart, touchy-feely liberal who gives a shit.

[Jester21]

Let me preface this post by saying that Jester is an idiot.
No. You're the idiot if you that this is ok. Future generations are going to look back at this and be horrified.

ALL of this was going on in Iraq before we "LIBERATED" them.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
Don't be a moron. We didn't give a shit about what Saddam was doing to his people. We thought he had WMD and was going to use them on us. The liberation was just a helpful side-effect of removing him.

And is Saddam the standard that you want to live up to?

[Jester21]

You won't stop for at least a week. It's your latest idée fixe.

As opposed to yours: that all democrats are traitors and should be hung. Because man, that never gets old.

PROVE IT! The bullshit from America-loathing "peace" pukes is NOT proof. Provide irrefutable evidence from objective sources to support your charge or be still.

Are you out of your ****ing mind? What do you think these "harsh interrogation techniques" are?

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Jester,
I'm going out on a limb here ... I somewhat agree with you. If we lived in a perfect world, but we don't. Some things while horrible and detestable, are necessary. We are at war. We are at war with an enemy who holds NO standards, who obeys NO rules, who has NO honor. War is ugly, it's dirty, it's brutal, it's vicious, it's oft times "unfair." That's the nature of the beast. Torture should never be the option of first choice, but if all else fails, it should be employed. We SHOULD be held to a higher standard, but only insofar as it's feasible. If REAL abuses are discovered (Abu Ghraib) we should deal with the perpetrators swiftly and decisively. But to limit the tools in our arsenal in the middle of a war with an enemy who does NOT esteem human live, liberty, and civil rights in the same regard is like sending them off to fight a battle with firearms and no bullets.

To those of us who have less of a problem with torture than you, this country is like a beloved mother, sister, child, friend (etc.) held hostage. If one's loved one is being held, they will do all that is in their power to free them ... and I'll bet most of us would break the law ourselves if we had to, to free THEM from torture and/or death. We live in a time when another 9/11 is not so unimpossible or improbable. We MUST protect this country and it's citizens, we MUST defend with everything we've got and with every means available to us.

[Jack_Savage]

What is the definition of torture?

I have no idea if it violates international law, because I don't know what the standard is. But pretending to drown people, beating them, forcing them into stress positions.....sounds like torture to me. Not as bad as some countries do, but I don't think Syria or Iran is the example we want to follow.
Jester, the torture standard is beheading, and throwing kids off the top floors of skyscrapers, after raping their parents.

Nothing we do is torture compared to that. Its time we stepped up our punishment with those monsters. Those who don't go and fight for there country, not long out of High School, complain that America isn't nice anymore are the real problem in this country. Not those with the courage to stand up to the thugs.

[The_Elucidator]

Are you out of your ****ing mind? What do you think these "harsh interrogation techniques" are?

They are exactly what you called them shitbirt, "harsh interrogation techniques." When we start throwing them off buildings, raping their children, sawing their heads off and dipping them in acid vats I will pick up a sign and picket right along side your goofy ass.

[Jack_Savage]

No. You're the idiot if you that this is ok. Future generations are going to look back at this and be horrified.


Don't be a moron. We didn't give a shit about what Saddam was doing to his people. We thought he had WMD and was going to use them on us. The liberation was just a helpful side-effect of removing him.

And is Saddam the standard that you want to live up to?
And is Saddam the standard that you want to live up to? -- Jester


I want us to be far more brutal to Saddams punk thugs. Teach them a lesson that will make them pee down their legs at the thought of attacking us again.

Are you so niave to think that being nice to them will bring a reasonable attitude from the likes of Uday and Qusay????

Do you really think this is about showing how good America is? Grow up. This is about getting an advantage in that strategic part of the world.

Nice? Been there done that!

[The_Elucidator]

No. You're the idiot if you that this is ok. Future generations are going to look back at this and be horrified.

No they won't; more than half of your ilk don't even think the holocaust happened.


Don't be a moron. We didn't give a shit about what Saddam was doing to his people. We thought he had WMD and was going to use them on us. The liberation was just a helpful side-effect of removing him.

But according to your logic; future genocide and torture was ok because they didn't have WMD's. Did you get a free toaster with that Publik Screwl Dip-loma?

And is Saddam the standard that you want to live up to?

Do you need help R-E-A-D-I-N-G? I posted WHAT he did and that isn't WHAT we are doing. So where do you get the term "standard" from?

God help this country; because it's obvious the Jester electorate won't.

[Wolfcounsel]

"I'm just surprised that the issue seems to be 'man what a jerk jimmy is', instead of 'our government is torturing people'." --Jester21

You don't think it's torture on Americans that Jimmy is still jacking his jaws around the world and we get to hear about it?

[DoctorDoom]

As opposed to yours: that all democrats are traitors and should be hung. Because man, that never gets old.Not all DemonRATs. Just the traitors, of which Congress has a surfeit.

Are you out of your ****ing mind? What do you think these "harsh interrogation techniques" are?They are not tiorture in any realistic sense. But then, to whiny-ass liberal pukes, if they're made to sleep on plain linen sheets instead of silk, that's torture.

You wan't to know what torture is, child? Read this.

UK Iraq dossier: Human rights abuses (http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/02/uk_human_rights_dossier_on_iraq/pdf/iraq_human_rights.pdf) (PDF file)

Shove your sniveling, boy.

[Wyatt_Junker]

Are you out of your ****ing mind? What do you think these "harsh interrogation techniques" are?

Not worse than these.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/wyattjunker/passedout1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/wyattjunker/passedout2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/wyattjunker/passedout3.jpg

Hopefully the UN will raise a hue & cry to denounce frat row. Then Jimmuh can insert a you-snooze-you-lose clause into the Geneva Convention.

There will be no further ownage against the war on terror.

[The_Elucidator]

You wan't to know what torture is, child? Read this.

UK Iraq dossier: Human rights abuses (http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/02/uk_human_rights_dossier_on_iraq/pdf/iraq_human_rights.pdf) (PDF file)

Shove your sniveling, boy.

The only way Jester will read this is if it gets posted on the Media Matters web site... So think of the chances! To him, waterboarding and (gasp) sleep deprivation or slapping around a male muzzie that was captured on the battlefield or in the process of planning a mass attack is just as evil as raping women or torturing children because of their parents political or religious belief. :rolleyes:

[Seabee]

What about U.N dennouncement of Jmmah Cahtah for his torture of the American people back in the 70's?

[Maggie_T]

Jimmy Carter is a constant torture for Americans, so he's a fine one to talk.

IAC, if Peanut Brain says the sun rises in the morning, I stay awake and keep an eye on it just to make sure.

I can't stand this old fart WHO CONTINUES TO WASTE OXYGEN AND NEVER EVER DIES!!!!! :flame:

There. I said it. Sue me.

[DeclinetoState]

Torture is listening to Jimmy Carter speak and remembering that for four long years, he was in the White House.

[Jester21]

But according to your logic; future genocide and torture was ok because they didn't have WMD's.
Quick: name me one country's government that you want to overthrow because of the way it tortures its people, and not because it poses a threat to the United States of America. On the off-chance that you can even name one: are you planning on calling your congressman or senator and telling him that the abuse has GOT to STOP, and we need to go in and protect the innocent? Answer: No, you are not.

So don't pretend that overthrowing Saddam had anything to do with "liberating the poor Iraqi people." We were there to protect ourselves.

Do you need help R-E-A-D-I-N-G? I posted WHAT he did and that isn't WHAT we are doing. So where do you get the term "standard" from?

In a discussion about our torture techniques you brought up what Saddam did. Don't even pretend you meant it for anything other than comparison's sake. No, what we are doing is not as bad as what Saddam did. But are we on a relativity scale here? Like, if he did worse things, could we do worse things, and still be the 'good' guys? The point is neither is acceptable.

To him, waterboarding and (gasp) sleep deprivation or slapping around a male muzzie that was captured on the battlefield or in the process of planning a mass attack is just as evil as raping women or torturing children because of their parents political or religious belief.
No. To him, both are unacceptable.

[Seabee]

[QUOTE]But are we on a relativity scale here? Like, if he did worse things, could we do worse things, and still be the 'good' guys? The point is neither is acceptable.

This is a common misconception about the GWOT. There are no good guys or bad guys. History will determne that, judgements will be passed by people who were not probably not even alive. Let them decide, all we have to do is survive. When you fight a savage on its terms you better be more savage and if water boarding or sleep dep. is anyone's idea of "torture," then they better rethink their definition. Philosophy is great in school, passing judgement is great for blogs but until you truly see man's inhumanity for man you then realize what has to be done to stop it. You have to decide between action or inaction, there is no middle road.

[Jester21]

Let them decide, all we have to do is survive.
See, I don't think that in terms of capturing al Qaeda terrorists and torturing them for further information, that we're in a war of survival. They simply do not have the capability to knock us off.

The survival part I think comes from our immigration policies, and not letting undesirables into the country. If we let in millions and millions of people, and they all think that al Qaeda is either great or are indifferent to them (don't see them as necessarily bad), then yeah, our society will change, and not for the better. That's where our survival as a society/culture comes in.

[DoctorDoom]

Acceptable to whom, whining liberal? To you? To those leftist assholes of Amnesty Int'l? To the braindead dickheads who march in the streets spewing the hatred of America?

Buy a clue, child. Many if not most of us don't give a damn about the comfort and pleasure of muzzie savages in whose tiny minds the only thought is, "Kill infidels!" I for one couldn't care less about what is done to those barbarians if it results in obtaining valuable information. And if it doesn't, try another one. Eventually, one will spill it.

Spare us your liberal pap, kid. The fate of al Qaeda murderers is of no significance.

[Seabee]

Ahhh point taken if I mentioned Al Qaeda, but I did not. This is not a war against the Al Qaeda, it is a war of ideology. It is a war of Hellenes, for all practical purposes, against the Persians, revisited. Also, if you think of the Islamics as rock throwing, little cavemen, in robes you are sorely mistaken. They are highly motivated, intelligent ,and cunning. As far as their capbaility to knock us off, they certainly do have it. 9-11 demonstrated that, our Achille's heel is our economy. They knew it and exploited it. Hell, in military terms the devestation on 9-11 was not even that bad and look at the mayhem it started. So, if torturing a few foot soldiers or some middle managment bubbas is the way to go right now I say fire up the ole electrodes and tape'em to someone's balls. That is torture.

[Kathy30]

What the muslims call torture is very different from our definition.

An American is captured and forced to undergo torture using the methods used by American torturers.

He is questioned by an attractive woman wearing a very low cut blouse showing lots of cleavage.

He is questioned by a woman who informs him she is on her menses. She touches his face, saying that she had just touched herself and has menstrual fluid on her fingers.

He is cold, or hot.

A muslim holds a Bible in an ungoved hand.

Rap music is played very loud.

That's just some of the torture that muslims say "I'd rather Saddam had me".

[Jester21]

Ahhh point taken if I mentioned Al Qaeda, but I did not. This is not a war against the Al Qaeda, it is a war of ideology. It is a war of Hellenes, for all practical purposes, against the Persians, revisited.
I guess I'm not sure where you're going with this then. We're torturing suspected terrorists. Maybe not all are al Qaeda, but they are suspected of having connections with terrorist groups.

It is a war of ideology, but the terrorists we're never going to convince. It's the people who aren't terrorists who will decide to either support us or them. Torturing people isn't a great way to convince them of how much better our way of life is.

[Seabee]

Jester, they already have enough recruits, possibly in the millions. God knows if that is tens or hundreds but the millions, regardless. These people are going to be terrorists whether it is because of United States torture or they are buying into the propaganda. It takes a certian mind set to walk that path.
The reason I mentioned about the ideology is because it is not as subjective as good and evil. And I am not trying to convince anyone our way of life is better. They are going to draw their own conclusions based on what they hear from their leadership and it does not matter how we handle it. They are going to propagandize any move we make.

[Maggie_T]

I get SO tired of the usual bleedin' hearts wringing their hands and fretting about the perceived "suffering" of our enemies at our bad hands. :rolleyes:

[Suzie]

We still have peanut farms here don't we? Surely someone can find a job for Jimmy to keep busy.

He sure didn't seem in too much of a hurry when we had citizens being held hostage ... not prisoner ... HOSTAGE. Meaning they were guilty of no crime, and Mr. Peanut couldn't get enough back bone to get them back and protect them. But when there is any question about something happening to people who aren't Americans he can't shut up about it. The hostages should thank the Lord for Ronald Reagan every time they pray. We all should.

[Maggie_T]

He sure didn't seem in too much of a hurry when we had citizens being held hostage ... not prisoner ... HOSTAGE. Meaning they were guilty of no crime, and Mr. Peanut couldn't get enough back bone to get them back and protect them.

[sarcasm mode on]

Now, now, Suze. Remember how he went down on his knees to Khomeini ("From one religious man to another")?

[sarcasm mode off]

Even a nutjob like Ross Perot cut a more corageous and dignified figure than Peanut Brain.

The day this embarassing old fart snuffs it, I'll mark it on my personal calendar of national holidays with a big red circle.

[Suzie]

True, I think that man has failed at everything he has ever attempted.

[Maggie_T]

From self to Peanut Brain: :die:

[Etaoin]

No. You're the idiot if you that this is ok. Future generations are going to look back at this and be horrified.


Don't be a moron. We didn't give a shit about what Saddam was doing to his people. We thought he had WMD and was going to use them on us. The liberation was just a helpful side-effect of removing him.

And is Saddam the standard that you want to live up to?

People seem to have forgotten the facts of why Saddam Hussein was not replaced in the Initial war against Iraq!

In the process of assimmilating the "U.N." forces, certain committments were made by the (anti-American) State Department. Support was to be given to the effort so long as there was no replacement of Saddam Hussein. Such a conclusion was SUPPORTED by the the potentates of the Arabian Peninsula, Bush 1 was (wrong as usual) in his failure to repace Saddam. Our present situation is a classic example of accomodation and no resolution to the problem! A classic result whenever the State Department wins!

[Wolfcounsel]

"This is a common misconception about the GWOT. There are no good guys or bad guys." --Seabee

"Also, if you think of the Islamics as rock throwing, little cavemen, in robes you are sorely mistaken. They are highly motivated, intelligent ,and cunning. As far as their capbaility to knock us off, they certainly do have it." --Seabee

"Jester, they already have enough recruits, possibly in the millions." --Seabee


1. We don't live in the future. The sand monkeys are the bad guys.

2. The sand monkeys, "being highly motivated, intelligent, and cunning", still look at women as pieces of second class property to be hidden from common eyes, and they have no qualms about using innocent people as shields against our Military.

3. If the sand monkeys have enough recruits to possibly number in the millions, then they WILL become extinct that much sooner.

The world will quickly become no place for murderous, cowardly misfits.

[Seabee]

1. We don't live in the future. The sand monkeys are the bad guys.

No, we don't live in the future that is why I said let future generations determine if we handled this right or wrong. I don't care. We need to be concerned with the enemy not debating if we are being to rough on the enemy or not.

2. The sand monkeys, "being highly motivated, intelligent, and cunning", still look at women as pieces of second class property to be hidden from common eyes, and they have no qualms about using innocent people as shields against our Military.

They are quite ingenious and this is an example of how they use innocents who they actually caused the death of and turn it around as a propaganda tool against us. So therefore, if we need to torture a few of their junior or senior bubbas to get information, then let's do it. It is much better to respect your enemy's capablities than to underestimate them.

3. If the sand monkeys have enough recruits to possibly number in the millions, then they WILL become extinct that much sooner.

I highly doubt they will become extinct any quicker with the way we are fighting this war. We need to kick it up and since they calim we are imperialists, let's start acting like imperialists. Right now we are like a no legged man in an ass kicking contest with the mental maturity of a 3rd grader.

[The_Elucidator]

I highly doubt they will become extinct any quicker with the way we are fighting this war. We need to kick it up and since they claim we are imperialists, let's start acting like imperialists. Right now we are like a no legged man in an ass kicking contest with the mental maturity of a 3rd grader.

They will never become extinct according to the Bible. We can only hope to slow them down.

[Wolfcounsel]

"I highly doubt they will become extinct any quicker with the way we are fighting this war." --Seabee

First we eliminate the sand monkey lovers.

[Naturalized-Texan]

What is the definition of torture?
What Jimmy Carter did to the American people when he was president surely fits the definition of torture:
- 21% prime rate;
- 13% inflation;
- 10.5% unemployment;
- Long lines at gas stations;
- Soviet military superiority;
- Hostages in our Iranian Embassy;
- A Keystone Kops failed rescue attempt;
- Soviet invasion of Afghanistan;
- Malaise;
- Stagflation;
- Appeasement of terrorists;
- and on and on and on.

[Lazarus]

...- and on and on and on.Which includes giving away the panama Canal and Mega-expansion of the Federal government...

Good post Tex... I was gonna say that the only torture I see is the fact that this dried out cadaver won't go away and leave us the hell alone... Did someone forget to put the stake in his heart?

[Maggie_T]

What's the definition of torture?

What Jimmy Carter did to the American people when he was president surely fits the definition of torture:
- 21% prime rate;
- 13% inflation;
- 10.5% unemployment;
- Long lines at gas stations;
- Soviet military superiority;
- Hostages in our Iranian Embassy;
- A Keystone Kops failed rescue attempt;
- Soviet invasion of Afghanistan;
- Malaise;
- Stagflation;
- Appeasement of terrorists;
- and on and on and on.


:claps:

Well, that certainly answers that question. :thumb: