Giuliani Employs Accused Pedophile Priest

[Suzie]

Giuliani Employs Accused Pedophile Priest

http://media.blogsmith.com/avatar/images/311/1418776/64/ (http://news.aol.com/political-machine/about/david-knowles/)By David Knowles (http://news.aol.com/political-machinebloggers/david-knowles/)
Oct 23rd 2007 8:51AM Filed Under:Republicans (http://news.aol.com/political-machine/category/republicans/), Rudy Giuliani (http://news.aol.com/political-machine/category/rudy-giuliani/), Featured Stories (http://news.aol.com/political-machine/category/featured-stories/), 2008 President (http://news.aol.com/political-machine/category/2008-president/)


"<img width="137" height="174" src="http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/news.aol.com/political-machine/media/2007/10/77351968.jpg">
Monsignor Alan Placa, the priest who presided over the wedding of Rudy Giuliani and Donna Hannover, stands accused of repeatedly sexually molesting at least three boys at his former parish. Amid the controversy, Placa stepped down from his duties at the Long Island Catholic diocese, but he did not have much trouble finding work. According to ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=3753385&page=1):
Presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani hired a Catholic priest to work in his consulting firm months after the priest was accused of sexually molesting two former students and an altar boy and told by the church to stop performing his priestly duties.
MORE HERE (http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2007/10/23/giuliani-employs-accused-pedophile-priest/?ncid=NWS00010000000001)

But he has a vibrant and exciting personality that appeals to people. :huh:

[Suzie]

:eek: Yikes that photo isn't as big on the story page.

[4Hydroxytryptamine]

ha, that's pretty scary

[Lazarus]

Just keep your arms and legs away from his mouth... :D

[Republican_Legion]

That many accusations that priests has to be guilty of at least of one of those charges. Scary why someone like Rudy would hire him.

I'm no longer considering myself a Catholic. I gave them a bloody long time to clean house and the last straw was when I found out the archbishop in California encourages illegal immigration.

[Suzie]

Now just imagine if he has the power to put someone on the SCOTUS. With this kind of judgment what could go wrong? :yikes:

[Teenager]

"<img width="137" height="174" src="http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/news.aol.com/political-machine/media/2007/10/77351968.jpg">

He looks like he just got touched in the privates by the pedophile or something...

[Lubbock]

This is one time I'm hoping that the DBM will start a drumbeat about something a Republican did.

This is worse than hiring Bernard Kerick.

Far worse.

I gave Rudy the benefit of the doubt on Kerick.

I will not give him that same benefit on this one.

[Suzie]

The beginning of the end? :biggrin: I am hearing a Howard Dean scream off in the distance....

[Jack_Savage]

This is one time I'm hoping that the DBM will start a drumbeat about something a Republican did.

This is worse than hiring Bernard Kerick.

Far worse.

I gave Rudy the benefit of the doubt on Kerick.

I will not give him that same benefit on this one.
I don't mind Kerik either, but I don't like this.

[Jack_Savage]

Now just imagine if he has the power to put someone on the SCOTUS. With this kind of judgment what could go wrong? :yikes:
It's bad, but it's also stupid. Bad move. Now would be a good time for Fred to move into the next gear. Pick it up a bit. Its a frustating race. Maybe Fred has some secret weapon backing up his plan to do it his way. He has a better chance after this news. He is real good on the war. I was reading the thread Laz posted on the issues and Fred rings bells loud and clear.

Right now other than Fred and Rudy, I don't see anyone who can beat Hillary, but that can change. We have time on our sides, which is good news for Fred. Time to set his course his way. Demonstrate his brand of leadership. He could move ahead of Rudy with this kind of stuff coming out. For some on the forum who don't care about the homosexual problem in society like I do, or at least they say they don't see it as a problem, this is still stupid.

If he is pandering to the homosexual segment, a Miller Beer drinking Republican, this will probably help him with their vote, but not mine. The race gets closer. Fred-heads are probably happy but only if Fred can show he can beat Hillary. If not this is bad news all the way around.

[Suzie]

Right now, the less they say the better off they are. You want to start your upturn closer to the election. It gives the media less time to burn you at the stake with your target audience. And people that do not follow politics regularly won't even be thinking about who they plan to vote for until then. Fred is playing close to his vest right now for a reason. Surely political followers must know this by the amount of time he took to announce. The less he says for them to pick apart, the less sound bites they can twist the better off any conservative is. Fred is looking to survive the MSM long enough to lead his charge when it's going to make a difference. And a conservative needs to do that in order to survive the media. You are watching here with Rudy what happens if they do not, even though he isn't a conservative, he's still a threat to their gal Hil ... they think.

Too many of little faith are questioning Fred on this, I think he's going the right thing ... but we shall see.

[Jack_Savage]

I'm all for Fred doing good. He just has a few clicks needed to turn on the dial for me to believe he can do it. Withstand the campaign. Who knows. When I think of the potential of those running is it just the hope in me or is it for real.

When I think back 30 years ago, it just didn't matter like it does now. The choices were so simple. But today, with your serial-killer incident, will the seriousness of the times wear down the get the vote out campaign? We have to work against that happening. Listen to the news. Be ready to adjust. If I made a mistake about Rudy, its Ok. Its not about me, its about getting the Job done. Who can get the job done. Who ever it comes down too it has to be someone who has the traits to win and enough voters to make it work.

[Venus de Smilo]

I'll wait for Rudy's explanation.

Amazing how you guys suddenly trust the drive-by media implicitly when they're torpedoing somebody you don't like.

Wake me up when they do the same muck-raking and trashing of a 'rat; Hillary in particular.

[Lubbock]

Venus has a a point.

We all jumped on the story like it was Gospel.

[Lazarus]

Im obviously not pulling for Rudy, but right is right and wrong is wrong, and I still believe in "innocent until proven guilty"...

I noticed that this "fact" didn't come to public light until just now that he's running for President... It smells funny to me - Like an election year mud-pie...

I'll wait till I hear a more credible explanation of the actual facts before I start callin for a rope...

[Suzie]

Why appoint this man at all knowing his past and what he is accused of? It's not a smart move when you are trying to win and election whether the guy did it or not. People already have a negative view of this and have unfortunately seen it too many times in the Catholic church. It shows bad judgment if he wants to win this.

[Lubbock]

. . .Why appoint this man at all . . .

Okay.

Someone please set me straight.

The Priest was hired by Rudy to, "work in his [Rudy's] consulting firm."

When Rudy hired him, did he know what the priest had been accused of?

Is the Priest still employed by Rudy?

[Lazarus]

When did this occur? That's not entirely clear to me...

[The_Elucidator]

This:

La Raza in 1997 even gave then-Senator Spencer Abraham, architect of congressional libertarians' anti-immigrant policy of mass immigration, its "Defender of the Melting Pot" award.

More Here (http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/krikorian200508190822.asp)

Let's wait till it plays out..

[Lazarus]

Ya know, its good that we have these discussions to be able to make an intelligent decision about the candidates... But I think we should be careful about getting into candidate bashing in the Primary Election (we'll allow a special dispensation for Ron Paul)... Most of us may end up with some degree of disappointment when the Primaries are over... But once that election is settled, we need to knuckle down and get behind the nominee - or be prepared to accept life under a Socialist government...

Bottom line is, the toes you're stompin on today might be connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow... Its ok to promote your favorite candidate, and its good to point out anything that might be a TRUE deal breaker - If Fred Thompson is actually having an affair with a goat, then I kinda want to know that...

But we need to be careful about running hog wild and attacking the other candidates we are not excited about simply because he's not as conservative as we want him to be or because you personally don't think he can win - NONE of the Pub candidates are the enemy...

The Dark side is on the other side of the fence - Save your bullets for them... Let's try to be reasonable about our criticism of the Pub candidates and not be doing the Democrats work for them...

If we are not careful about how far we take it, we could very likely end up facing a general election with a candidate that is already beat up and bleeding - and we're the ones who did it...

Who does that serve?

[Suzie]

A grand jury found enough evidence to indict Msgr Alan Placa on the abuse charges, but didn't do it because the statute of limitations had expired.

Lawyers for alleged victims say Placa would often conduct interviews, in his priest garb, without making it clear he was the church lawyer.
"He was a wolf in sheep's clothing," said Melanie Little, a lawyer for several alleged victims of sexual abuse by other priests in the diocese.
"He was more concerned with protecting the priests, protecting the reputation of the diocese and protecting the church coffers than he was protecting the children," said Little.
According to the Suffolk County grand jury report, "The evidence before the grand jury clearly demonstrates that diocesan officials agreed to engage in conduct that resulted in the prevention, hindrance and delay in the discovery of criminal conduct by priests."


Source (http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2007/10/rudy-and-the-monsignor.html)

[Jack_Savage]

Why appoint this man at all knowing his past and what he is accused of? It's not a smart move when you are trying to win and election whether the guy did it or not. People already have a negative view of this and have unfortunately seen it too many times in the Catholic church. It shows bad judgment if he wants to win this.
Suzy, I am not trying to appoint anyone. I am for who can get the job done. We are going through a tough four year term with President Bush. Look what what has been done to him. His base turned on him!

If Fred keeps reading from his notes in a halting manner, I cannot change that. If Freds campaign strategy turns out to be a dud, thats his decision, not mine. Who will have the wand to finish this race, the same person we all throw under the bus today?

If we made a mistake about Fred, Rudy, Huckabee, any of them, we have time to adjust. If McCain turns out to be the candidate, I will support him fully. Try to get him to adopt Rudys take on interrogation techniques, that being doing anything you can think of which would work. Its a balancing problem. Weighing the priorities.

Think of who would punish that guy banging on you car window the other day. He is probably campaigning for Hillary and more rights for the village idiots right now.

[Suzie]

I was talking about why would Guiliani appoint this guy to a position on his campaign.

[The_Elucidator]

I think all the candidates have made faux pas during this early primary campaign, fortunately they have time to correct them before the general election.

[Venus de Smilo]

It seems to me the quotation in the blog report indicates that Placa, as a lawyer for the diocese, worked to keep things under wraps, not that he, himself, molested kids. The blogger asserts that but the facts he uses, such as the findings of the grand jury, don't support his assertion.

[Suzie]

There were abuse charges as well.

Rudy Giuliani continues to employ (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=3753385&page=1) a Roman Catholic priest who has been accused of molesting teen boys, and who was suspended by his bishop because of the accusations. A grand jury found enough evidence to indict Msgr Alan Placa on the abuse charges, but didn't do it because the statute of limitations had expired. And more:

[Jack_Savage]

I was talking about why would Guiliani appoint this guy to a position on his campaign.
Its an important question. I really want to know what he was thinking, is thinking on it. One thing I noticed which I think is relevant on this is the way Arnold is handling the politics of the fires. He is acknowledging President Bush, making a point of showing how well they are working together. Heck he is turning this fire into a refrence point on effectivness. All his people are speaking about the good job each one of them did. Right out of Rudys book.

Unlike Katrina which was coordinated by the slob-left. Those who were only interested in blame and shame. They had no plan so they attacked. Then attacked again and again. We can't afford to join them in it like so many Rupublicans did against Bush. That has brought us down as much as what Sen. Reid and Nancy did. Notice how you don't hear Nancy taking shots at that idiot who is mayor of New Orleans. No-no. No! Its Bushs fault.

So I'm just saying we need to show some class on our team. Like Arnold is doing, I am not saying to back off of the enemy. Don't back off one bit aganst those pukes who want to tear this country down. They started this low-down and dirty campaign of filth. Get as brutal as it takes with them. But Rudy and Fred are not the enemy. Huckabee is not the enemy, neither is McCain.

None of our team is enabling that guy who was knocking on your window, and there are more and more of those freaks appearing along the road today. Why? Its the left-wing which has brought into existance all the resentment groups sprouting up to protest everything, giving them some kind of justification to their evil.



Who is going to have the job of cleaning up that mess? That is what needs to be addressed, and the people who have enabled it. Hillary, feeling their pain, thats who. Obama, who refuses to put his hand over his heart, just like that serial killer refuses to do. It the hate for of America we have to fight.

[Suzie]

I think after reading the ABC news story that he is working for a consulting firm belonging to Rudy, not consulting for the presidential campaign. Still he's taking care of a guy who is one of his buddies. Who's to say he won't have a problem with appointing someone to the courts with an equally shady past just because he personally doesn't have a problem with them. As I have said all along I do not trust Rudy.

[Venus de Smilo]

That many accusations that priests has to be guilty of at least of one of those charges. Scary why someone like Rudy would hire him.

I'm no longer considering myself a Catholic. I gave them a bloody long time to clean house and the last straw was when I found out the archbishop in California encourages illegal immigration.
That's what a lot of people said about the Duke lacrosse players, yet the attorney general, after a thorough and exhaustive investigation, not only concluded the three players were "innocent", which is a heretofore unheard of pronouncement coming from any prosecutor, especially an attorney general, but he also found that NO CRIME HAD EVEN BEEN COMMITTED BY ANYONE.

If you would read the entire story, you'll see that it also says that Placa and Giuliani have been close friends for 39 years and that a guy by the name of Hogan states no way did this happen, and he was there, too.

I don't know about you, but if I had a close friend of 39 years who was informally accused of something that I had no knowledge of and that there are witnesses who say it didn't happen, I would stand by my friend. Maybe some people just don't have the guts or character to do that, especially in the face of political criticism.

[Republican_Legion]

That's what a lot of people said about the Duke lacrosse players, yet the attorney general, after a thorough and exhaustive investigation, not only concluded the three players were "innocent", which is a heretofore unheard of pronouncement coming from any prosecutor, especially an attorney general, but he also found that NO CRIME HAD EVEN BEEN COMMITTED BY ANYONE.

If you would read the entire story, you'll see that it also says that Placa and Giuliani have been close friend for 39 years and that a guy by the name of Hogan states no way did this happen, and he was there, too.

I don't know about you, but if I had a close friend of 39 years who was informally accused of something that I had no knowledge of and that there are witnesses who say it didn't happen, I would stand by my friend. Maybe some people just don't have the guts or character to do that, especially in the face of political criticism.

Odd. Last I recall in the past most people here were believing every single one of those cases against catholic priests and now all the sudden because one is connected to Rudy it is now being doubted by some ?

I dont know about you but I actually "was" a catholic and my church had a priest removed because of "ONE" allegation from a woman that he molested her when she was younger and he admited it. I always remember he seemed weird.
There is extortion of priests who been accused because the church is so fast to pay people off. I just do not believe someone with many accusations would be innocent of every single one of them.

[Suzie]

There was only one woman making the accusations against the Lacrosse players. There are multiple accusers in this one.

[Venus de Smilo]

The grand jury that investigated this thing was nothing more than a blue ribbon committee working at Elliott Spitzer's behest. Much of it was a witch hunt. As for the lawyer Melanie what's her name, she is a plaintiff's lawyer and has/had a personal mercenary interest in damaging as many members of the priesthood that she could, also for her own aggrandizement.

Further, it is outrageous that a grand jury can issue a report smearing somebody without having to prove their claims at trial under the excuse of the statute having run. If the statute has run, and no charges can be brought under any circumstances, pronouncing someone culpable is downright stalinist.

Would any of you like to have a grand jury report that you did something but you have no chance to disprove the report because there can never be a trial? How do you get your side of the story out? Hire a ghostwriter to write a book and hope you can find a publisher? What do you do? This was a case of the criminal justice process, meaning the grand jury system, being used to aid the greedy civil lawyers.

Remember, the Duke lacrosse players were indicted by a grand jury, too, and that grand jury believed there was a crime committed and were convinced enough that those boys did it to find true bills on all of them.

[Republican_Legion]

There was only one woman making the accusations against the Lacrosse players. There are multiple accusers in this one.

Didnt she also have problems like drugs or something ?

Also given Rudys beliefs that go against Catholic teaching and policy such as Abortion and gay marriage etc how is it this priest be friends with someone who is actively aiding those causes ? He even married a second cousin which is against His churches policy.

The priest must have been a Liberal one who approved of gay marriage, abortion etc.
Possibly the priest in question is GAY and likes little boys ?

[Suzie]

Didnt she also have problems like drugs or something ?

Also given Rudys beliefs that go against Catholic teaching and policy such as Abortion and gay marriage etc how is it this priest be friends with someone who is actively aiding those causes ? He even married a second cousin which is against His churches policy.

The priest must have been a Liberal one who approved of gay marriage, abortion etc.
Possibly the priest in question is GAY and likes little boys ?

Well from the source above this was a thing that made me go Hmmmm.

Msgr Placa's official residence is in a Long Island rectory, but Salon reports (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/06/22/placa/index2.html)that he co-owns a half-million dollar Manhattan penthouse apartment with another priest, a longtime friend with whom he has owned numerous properties over the years:
Since the late 1980s, the two men have owned six different properties in New York and Florida in common. From 1991 to 1998, while Riordan was pastor of Saints Cyril and Methodius in Deer Park, N.Y., and Placa was vice chancellor of the diocese, Placa was also priest in residence at Saints Cyril and Methodius. Both men are listed as living at the church rectory in public documents. According to the Official Catholic Directory, Riordan had moved to St. Aloysius in Great Neck as pastor by Jan. 1, 1999; Placa has been listed as priest in residence at St. Aloysius since 1999.

[Venus de Smilo]

Odd. Last I recall in the past most people here were believing every single one of those cases against catholic priests and now all the sudden because one is connected to Rudy it is now being doubted by some ?

I dont know about you but I actually "was" a catholic and my church had a priest removed because of "ONE" allegation from a woman that he molested her when she was younger and he admited it. I always remember he seemed weird.
There is extortion of priests who been accused because the church is so fast to pay people off. I just do not believe someone with many accusations would be innocent of every single one of them.

I never weighed in on the entire matter because of the general Catholic bashing that goes on on this board. I believed that many priests were probably guilty, but not all of them. I viewed it as the guilt of some being used to sweep in many more under a witch hunt, the purpose being to bilk money out of the Church and weaken its stature as another means of undermining Christians. Watching the posters on this board buy the whole story, unquestioned, was like watching sharks in a feeding frenzy eating their own.

[Venus de Smilo]

Well from the source above this was a thing that made me go Hmmmm.
Priests aren't allowed to marry. My brother owns four properties with another guy and they lived together in two of them, one place at a time, until each of them married. They started buying the properties when they were young by pooling their money. Priests aren't allowed to marry and property in Manhattan is extremely expensive. But, by all means, buy into the innuendo all you like.

[Republican_Legion]

Msgr Placa's official residence is in a Long Island rectory, but Salon reports (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/06/22/placa/index2.html)that he co-owns a half-million dollar Manhattan penthouse apartment with another priest, a longtime friend with whom he has owned numerous properties over the years: Since the late 1980s, the two men have owned six different properties in New York and Florida in common. From 1991 to 1998, while Riordan was pastor of Saints Cyril and Methodius in Deer Park, N.Y., and Placa was vice chancellor of the diocese, Placa was also priest in residence at Saints Cyril and Methodius. Both men are listed as living at the church rectory in public documents. According to the Official Catholic Directory, Riordan had moved to St. Aloysius in Great Neck as pastor by Jan. 1, 1999; Placa has been listed as priest in residence at St. Aloysius since 1999.

WOW. Thats very strange for a priest to be living such a high life with his other "priest" friend. Very fishy.

Once long time ago on the Radio "Bill Handel" who is jewish btw said that the one big difference between catholic priests and rabbis is that the Rabbis drive nice cars and the Priests drive old used cars.

Now having had a uncle who is a catholic priest I will say that he never had a nice car and even from being in the USAF as a chaplain rank Lt. Colonel he still couldnt afford a nice car and or property.

[Venus de Smilo]

There was only one woman making the accusations against the Lacrosse players. There are multiple accusers in this one.
So what? The point is that the grand jury issued true bills when in fact NO CRIME AT ALL OCCURRED.

What you said above is EXACTLY what happened at the Salem Witch Trials. One person made an accusation, then others followed, claiming they'd seen this person do this or that, and soon there were throngs of "victims" and "witnesses" acting like a pack of hyeneas. It's gang mentality sanctioned by the legal system.

[Republican_Legion]

I never weighed in on the entire matter because of the general Catholic bashing that goes on on this board. I believed that many priests were probably guilty, but not all of them. I viewed it as the guilt of some being used to sweep in many more under a witch hunt, the purpose being to bilk money out of the Church and weaken its stature as another means of undermining Christians. Watching the posters on this board buy the whole story, unquestioned, was like watching sharks in a feeding frenzy.

There is priests wrongly accused but they are few.

It doesnt help the priest in question if he has "penthouse" and is close with those who pursue policys against the churches beliefs like Rudy.
Those are the type the Pope wants out of the church.

Offtopic: this whole stuff about the priest and rudy sounds like something that wll be made into a Episode of "Law and Order: SVU".

[Suzie]

Well is there some evidence that the prosecutor in this case would have reason (like an election) to press this without a case?

Then of course you have to assume that the men like Richard Toller who is saying this happened to him is lying even though this is something most men wouldn't want the public to know. His name is out there ... the Lacrosse accusers was not.

Sorry I just don't see the same reasons to question this one as there were in the Lacrosse case. And I haven't read up much on the legal system during the Salem witch trials so I can't comment on that.

However, it seems to me if they were working the legal system against this priest and set out to do him in with no evidence to support it they would have went ahead and drummed up something they could make stick now, but they didn't. Sounds like if you were going to question which side might have had some shady works going it's not the grown men who came forward after claiming years of emotional torment and putting all of it out in the open. It's the guy that never stood trial for what he was accused. They did find a way to make one persons word stick against them in the Lacrosse case for a little while anyway.

[Jack_Savage]

That's what a lot of people said about the Duke lacrosse players, yet the attorney general, after a thorough and exhaustive investigation, not only concluded the three players were "innocent", which is a heretofore unheard of pronouncement coming from any prosecutor, especially an attorney general, but he also found that NO CRIME HAD EVEN BEEN COMMITTED BY ANYONE.

If you would read the entire story, you'll see that it also says that Placa and Giuliani have been close friends for 39 years and that a guy by the name of Hogan states no way did this happen, and he was there, too.

I don't know about you, but if I had a close friend of 39 years who was informally accused of something that I had no knowledge of and that there are witnesses who say it didn't happen, I would stand by my friend. Maybe some people just don't have the guts or character to do that, especially in the face of political criticism.
What a good post Venus. Man this is some nasty business. No wonder Bush looks like he could care less for the Job of President. (I don't mean that like he doesn't respect it, just that the newness probably has worn off) His Dad didn't seem to have his heart in his last campaign. He was going to do it his way and if he lost, he was Ok with it. Somewhat like Fred is sounding.

Yes lets get these facts out. Sure his position on pedophiles is a very important question, but your right before we throw him behind bars for supporting a close friend, lets check it out at the very least.

[Venus de Smilo]

Well is there some evidence that the prosecutor in this case would have reason (like an election) to press this without a case?

Then of course you have to assume that the men like Richard Toller who is saying this happened to him is lying even though this is something most men wouldn't want the public to know. His name is out there ... the Lacrosse accusers was not.

Sorry I just don't see the same reasons to question this one as there were in the Lacrosse case. And I haven't read up much on the legal system during the Salem witch trials so I can't comment on that.

However, it seems to me if they were working the legal system against this priest and set out to do him in with no evidence to support it they would have went ahead and drummed up something they could make stick now, but they didn't. Sounds like if you were going to question which side might have had some shady works going it's not the grown men who came forward after claiming years of emotional torment and putting all of it out in the open. It's the guy that never stood trial for what he was accused. They did find a way to make one persons word stick against them in the Lacrosse case for a little while anyway.

So, you assume that Hogan, who refuted Tolner, is lying? Tolner would most assuredly have a motive to lie without regard to what people think of him having allegedly been molested - money. Remember, the article mentions his attorney in the CIVIL case. That means he's looking for money. By contrast, Hogan had nothing to gain financially by stating the allegations are untrue.

What I'm saying is the grand jury system, which is SUPPOSED to be used only in criminal cases, was used to help advance the civil case by making a finding, as though they were a court and not a probable cause review jury, that this priest did such and such. Because no charges could be brought and the grand jury knew that by their own admission that the statute had run, they in essence convicted this priest without a trial inasmuch as it ruined his reputation and gave cause to the civil case against him. The man never had a trial. None of the so-called evidence was ever tested. That's the purpose of a trial - to test the evidence. It was never tested, yet the grand jury said he was guilty based on alleged victim's statements. May I suggest you read up on the grand jury process - who gets to be heard, what evidence can be introduced, who may testify, etc.. It's a very fragile process that is quite easily abused and has been severely perverted from its original purpose.

Yes, Crystal Mangum, the accuser in the lacrosse case, was believed by the public. The cops and DA used her complaint to get indictments against three young men they knew were innocent. The cops lied in the GJ proceedings, and that's how the indictments were secured. The boys were not allowed to be there nor have a representative there to question witnesses because that's what NC law states. The cops, mayor, city manager and members of the city council hoped to shake down Duke University for a lot of money. Nifong's motive was to get elected so he could fatten and lengthen his pension. In both cases, the motive to frame those boys was money. The public's motive was a racist effort to advance their agenda. The only clean hands were those of the real victims, the three boys.

[Suzie]

Once again, there was more than one accuser in this case. And the church gave him the boot for some reason even though they were using him to protect others that have been accused. Do you doubt the church as well as the accusers? The church hasn't exactly been known for removing people accused so why this guy? Sorry just doesn't add up to this guy's favor. I agree he is innocent till proven guilty, but they should give the chance to find out legally. And any one running for president that helps him out until then has bad judgment IMO.

[Republican_Legion]

Once again, there was more than one accuser in this case. And the church gave him the boot for some reason even though they were using him to protect others that have been accused. Do you doubt the church as well as the accusers? The church hasn't exactly been known for removing people accused so why this guy? Sorry just doesn't add up to this guy's favor. I agree he is innocent till proven guilty, but they should give the chance to find out legally. And any one running for president that helps him out until then has bad judgment IMO.

Speaking of the RCC they have problems removing some of them because the ones removing them may have done something as well and you never know there might be (blackmail) in the inner power circles.

They are too tied up with their own problems to ever get anything done about the pedophiles except cut down on the number of new ones being breeded into the priesthood.

[Jack_Savage]

Once again, there was more than one accuser in this case. And the church gave him the boot for some reason even though they were using him to protect others that have been accused. Do you doubt the church as well as the accusers? The church hasn't exactly been known for removing people accused so why this guy? Sorry just doesn't add up to this guy's favor. I agree he is innocent till proven guilty, but they should give the chance to find out legally. And any one running for president that helps him out until then has bad judgment IMO.
Suzy, wouldn't it be far better to point out Freds qualities. Both Fred and Rudy have a real shot at the nomination. Thats a good thing. Lets see them debate each other.

One thing to keep in mind. The rest of the country is going to be told that whomever the conservatives are for, will be automatically some sub-human ghoul. Christians are the laughing stock of the late-nite talk shows. A christian group who is for anyone is the kiss of death to the PC club of approval. Right-wingers are a minus.

Were not in the mens room, they can have a wide stance on the issues. It helps in this war-torn nasty weather. Lets see who earns the genuine applause on their merits. How they demonstrate themselves for taking the pukes on.

My God listen to Senator Dodd, he is way back east, and taking poc shots at Bush on the fire all the way out west. Blaming the war for some percieved failure as to the fire, when even that disgusting Diane Feinstein is aplauding the teamwork and effectivness in handling it. Think of what they are going to do when the rank and file freaks find out your so tensed up about Fred?

[Suzie]

Point out Fred's qualities? Tensed up about Fred? What does this guy have to with Fred? This man has been removed from a position in the Catholic Church for a reason, I don't agree with Rudy taking care of him. If he deserved to be taken care of wouldn't a CHURCH above all others be the ones to do it? I mean isn't the church where you go when you need help? Unless you are the one creating the problems FOR the church.

This has nothing to do with Fred, it's a reflection of how bad Rudy's judgment is.

[Gonzo67]

Suzie is correct.

Whether this guy is guilty or innocent does not matter, where the campaign is concerned.

The stigma of simply being accused and removed from his position because of the accusation makes him a POOR choice for Rudy to employ.

Granted, the man is his friend, and he's innocent until proved guilty. He may be fully innocent of all charges against him. But friendship is friendship, and business is business. And when politics is your business, today, image counts more than most anything else.

Rudy's decision to put this man into the spotlight for his campaign was a poor political choice. It shows clear lack of judgment.

When the left will take anything and everything they can get their grubby little fingers on, and manipulate it to smear the republican candidate, why would a candidate risk that? The Democrats do not care if the accusations are true or not. They're not INTERESTED in truth. They're interested in Image. They're interested in how it looks, and how it can be used against the Republicans.

I love my family, I love my friends. And I would stand by my friends and family no matter what. But if I was going to run for President of the United States, you can bet your ass, most of my family, and more than most of my friends I would keep in the background, far into the shadows.

Not because I am "ashamed" of them. Not because they're "criminals" or that I don't trust them. But because I know how the opposition works. I know that they will be used against me. Rudy has been a politician for how many years? He hasn't grasped this one simple concept yet?

[Jack_Savage]

Suzie is correct.

Whether this guy is guilty or innocent does not matter, where the campaign is concerned.

The stigma of simply being accused and removed from his position because of the accusation makes him a POOR choice for Rudy to employ.

Granted, the man is his friend, and he's innocent until proved guilty. He may be fully innocent of all charges against him. But friendship is friendship, and business is business. And when politics is your business, today, image counts more than most anything else.

Rudy's decision to put this man into the spotlight for his campaign was a poor political choice. It shows clear lack of judgment.

When the left will take anything and everything they can get their grubby little fingers on, and manipulate it to smear the republican candidate, why would a candidate risk that? The Democrats do not care if the accusations are true or not. They're not INTERESTED in truth. They're interested in Image. They're interested in how it looks, and how it can be used against the Republicans.

I love my family, I love my friends. And I would stand by my friends and family no matter what. But if I was going to run for President of the United States, you can bet your ass, most of my family, and more than most of my friends I would keep in the background, far into the shadows.

Not because I am "ashamed" of them. Not because they're "criminals" or that I don't trust them. But because I know how the opposition works. I know that they will be used against me. Rudy has been a politician for how many years? He hasn't grasped this one simple concept yet?
If this guy is not a pedophile then standing behind a friend is a quality in Rudy. No, he shouldn't turn on him because of how it appears. I thought this was some open and shut case and Rudy was running some kind of cover just because he was a friend. Kerik? Heck, Kerik did a good job and Rudy, when he found out that Kerik had done something wrong, he said he made a mistake in recommending Kerik.

This is different. Lets see what the facts are instead of someone from Media-Matters, trying to spin a story for CNN headlines.

[Suzie]

The media isn't the only one saying this man did something worthy of punishment. The Catholic church IS punishing him. Why do you think that is? They certainly aren't known for punishing priests accused of this, but they sent him packing.

Do you have that blind a loyalty to Rudy that you can't admit this is a bad move for a presidential candidate? I am not the one making Rudy look bad. RUDY is.

[Gonzo67]

If this guy is not a pedophile then standing behind a friend is a quality in Rudy. No, he shouldn't turn on him because of how it appears.


I disagree, sorry. First, I'm not saying it's right, I'm just stating a simple, hard fact of life. No matter if this person is innocent or guilty, the Democrats will use it.

And whether Rudy believes this guy is innocent or not doesn't matter. Rudy pushing this guy is not the proper course of action. It doesn't matter WHAT Rudy believes. The only thing that matters is what's good for the people voting for him. Do you know Rudy well enough to judge his ability to remain objective and unbiased where his friends are concerned?

So if he has a friend that's been accused of selling crack to school children, you'd be comfortable with Rudy making him vice president for his campaign? I mean, if Rudy says he's innocent, it must be so!

Frankly, I don't have that much faith in ANY politician, much less one that's gone out of his way to show how much he loves illegal immigrants more than American Citizens.

Rudy's "assurance" to this guys innocence means nothing. I do not know him well enough to know for sure he's not going to let his personal relationship factor into the question of this guy's guilt or innocence.

And rest assured, my "misgivings" aside, the Democrats will not HESITATE to use this against him.

The simple fact of the matter is, Rudy should not have put this man forward. The campaign for the highest office in this country should be kept separate from Rudy's personal life. To push his friends onto the public and think that everyone will take his word for it, that's just plain stupidity. It was a bad move on Rudy's part.

[Lubbock]

I'm not up to snuff on the timeline of when this all went down, so someone set me straight . . . because I'm probably way off base.

. . . this is a bad move for a presidential candidate . . .

I am under the impression that Rudy hired the guy [to work in a business, not a campaign] long before he [Rudy] was a candidate; and I'm not clear on whether Rudy knew the charges that have been leveled against the man at the time he hired him; and I'm totally unclear on whether the man is still an employee.

What Rudy did at what time, and what he knew when he did what he did makes a difference to me.

If Rudy hired the man, not knowing of the charges, then fired his ass when he found out, that makes a difference to me.

If Rudy hired the guy, not knowing of the charges, then learned of the charges, and kept the man on, citing "innocent until proven guilty" because he was friends wih him for 39 years, makes a difference to me. [There really are two ways to look at that.

What did Rudy know and when did he know it . . .

Any help in understanding the controversey will be appreciated.

[Suzie]

Evidently the friendship and loyalty doesn't go both ways because if I had a friend who wanted to be president and anything about me would cause problems for him, if he put had himself on the line with a decision to hire me I would step down and keep it from becoming an issue.

How much of this "loyalty" are you willing to accept? This man is an attorney, do you want him on the Supreme Court just because Rudy is loyal to his buds? And it doesn't have to be this guy, Rudy is a lawyer he's bound to know plenty of them he has "loyalties" to. Is the fact that he's just being loyal to a friend good enough for an appointment no matter what their past is like? Loyalty to a friend is a good quality for his personal relationships. But might not be the best thing for the greater good. And in this case it sure isn't when you are trying to win an election.

[Republican_Legion]

I cant remember who but a couple of people here said a year ago that Rudy is connected to a pedophile priest.

This was before he officially announced his intention to run for president.

[Jack_Savage]

Do you have that blind a loyalty to Rudy that you can't admit this is a bad move for a presidential candidate? I am not the one making Rudy look bad. RUDY is.
I disagree, sorry. First, I'm not saying it's right, I'm just stating a simple, hard fact of life. No matter if this person is innocent or guilty, the Democrats will use it. G-67

I don't think so. Unless you think Barney Frank wants to bring the subject up? No. Democrats only want to find out who supports Rudy and Fred.

If his actions came from some personal integrity this will support Rudy, if not it will hurt him. Same thing with Fred. Can he think on his feet like Rudy.

Thats what this boils down to and huffing and puffing it all up from the far-right won't help Fred. Maybe if y-all put the Democrat mask on it would help but not as conservatives complaining that Rudy is too liberal. They don't care.

[Suzie]

This has nothing to do with Fred. If I were a Romney supporter, or heck even if I was a Rudy supporter it doesn't change the fact that this looks bad and it's not a good person for a presidential candidate to be connected with. The church doesn't even want to be connected with this guy anymore.

[Jack_Savage]

So, you assume that Hogan, who refuted Tolner, is lying? Tolner would most assuredly have a motive to lie without regard to what people think of him having allegedly been molested - money. Remember, the article mentions his attorney in the CIVIL case. That means he's looking for money. By contrast, Hogan had nothing to gain financially by stating the allegations are untrue.

What I'm saying is the grand jury system, which is SUPPOSED to be used only in criminal cases, was used to help advance the civil case by making a finding, as though they were a court and not a probable cause review jury, that this priest did such and such. Because no charges could be brought and the grand jury knew that by their own admission that the statute had run, they in essence convicted this priest without a trial inasmuch as it ruined his reputation and gave cause to the civil case against him. The man never had a trial. None of the so-called evidence was ever tested. That's the purpose of a trial - to test the evidence. It was never tested, yet the grand jury said he was guilty based on alleged victim's statements. May I suggest you read up on the grand jury process - who gets to be heard, what evidence can be introduced, who may testify, etc.. It's a very fragile process that is quite easily abused and has been severely perverted from its original purpose.

Yes, Crystal Mangum, the accuser in the lacrosse case, was believed by the public. The cops and DA used her complaint to get indictments against three young men they knew were innocent. The cops lied in the GJ proceedings, and that's how the indictments were secured. The boys were not allowed to be there nor have a representative there to question witnesses, which is the way most grand juries work. The cops, mayor, city manager and members of the city council hoped to shake down Duke University for a lot of money. Nifong's motive was to get elected so he could fatten and lengthen his pension. In both cases, the motive to frame those boys was money. The public's motive was a racist effort to advance their agenda. The only clean hands were those of the real victims, the three boys.
The man never had a trial. None of the so-called evidence was ever tested. That's the purpose of a trial - to test the evidence. It was never tested, yet the grand jury said he was guilty based on alleged victim's statements. May I suggest you read up on the grand jury process - who gets to be heard, what evidence can be introduced, who may testify, etc.. It's a very fragile process that is quite easily abused and has been severely perverted from its original purpose. --Venus

If this is what happened and I have no reason to doubt Venus's hard work investigating the incident, then this is good cause for Rudy to stand up for a friend. I would not expect less from Fred.

The issue here isn't the facts of this case, its the people who may very well, down the line, be hoping beyond hope that Rudy wins the next election. How would we view a Soros punk spinning this into dis-information? We wouldn't like it. We need to smarten up on the game plan. Me included. I was sitting here thinking that Rudy had done something bad just because it was reported. That is a wake up call to me. Laz and Venus took the time to research it and shed some sunlight on it.

We gotta think a few moves down the board. Look at the players coming againt us. Who is writing these stories and why do they fear Rudy so much? Who's kneecaps are we shooting at? Rudy sits back in the chair open and answering any question given him. He is not all tensed up about it.

Someone asked him to prove his conservative standing. He said that was up to each of the voters to do. Fred was asked why he wasn't doing it the way the other candidates did it. He said, it was his way and wasn't going to change a thing. So lets watch them debate it and then do what they want and make a decision. Its just not that time yet. They both bring alot to the table.

[Lubbock]

. . . We need to smarten up . . .

We damn well need to quit eating our own, that's for wure.

[TeenageRepublican]

Wow. This is like a parent employing Michael Jackson as a babysitter for their four-year old boys.
Something is going to go horribly, horribly wrong.

[dPrasse]

We damn well need to quit eating our own, that's for wure.

Rudy is NOT "one of our own" ... He is a RINO .. A Democrat in Disguise ...

If you want to call him "One of Our Own" ( I surely do not want him in my camp ) , lets turn it around ...

when will "our own" stop shitting on us , the Conservative base ??

Give Rudy a Miller Beer ,a Ford vehicle a nice silky dress and let him run FEMA ...

[Jack_Savage]

Rudy is NOT "one of our own" ... He is a RINO .. A Democrat in Disguise ...

If you want to call him "One of Our Own" ( I surely do not want him in my camp ) , lets turn it around ...

The man never had a trial. None of the so-called evidence was ever tested. That's the purpose of a trial - to test the evidence. It was never tested, yet the grand jury said he was guilty based on alleged victim's statements. May I suggest you read up on the grand jury process - who gets to be heard, what evidence can be introduced, who may testify, etc.. It's a very fragile process that is quite easily abused and has been severely perverted from its original purpose.
??

Give Rudy a Miller Beer ,a Ford vehicle a nice silky dress and let him run FEMA ...
Anyone who is against neocommie.com is one of us. Get real. This isn't some elitists club. Thats what Hanoi John and the Deaniacs are about. Thats what Hillarys Village is about.

That's not what America is about.


when will "our own" stop shitting on us , the Conservative base ?? -- Dpasse


Maybe you missed Buchanans Brigade when they mounted up and rode off to the sound of the gunfire, only to be seen over at MSNBC today. Over with that conservative icon and lead soft-shoe man of "Dancing with the Stars" Tucker Carlson. What base are you talking about, the ones who drew the slings and arrows against Bush when the polls went south?

We need everyone who is proud to be called conservative and start praying for more or haven't you noticed we lost the last round to the pukes who don't even have a plan. How did that happen with this group your talking about in full force? It looked to me more like the "Mclaughlin Group."

[Timberwolf]

Maybe Rudy is trying to "short-circuit" the bad press later in the campaign by "leaking" the story now. It won't BE an issue in 3 months and for sure won't be in the general election because, "That is such OLD news...that wasn't even an issue LAST year...."

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :biggrin:

[Venus de Smilo]

I did a little more reading on this. Rudy has been best friends with Placa since they were 13 years old. They went to high school and college together, and were fraternity brothers along with Riordan, the priest who owns property with Placa.

There were two boys, now men, who claimed they were groped by Placa. There are three other boys who said it could not have happened. The school Placa was teaching in was very small and such a thing would have been known by everyone. Tollner's lawyer claimed that Placa went from boy to boy, searching out victims, yet nobody except the ones seeking monetary damages knew about it in this little school, even though Placa was there for YEARS.

Placa has not been booted from the Church. He is a priest-in-residence at a church and is on administrative leave from the Church. He cannot perform communion, marriages or funeral services.

Placa has a law degree as well as his college and seminary degrees. Presumably his law degree qualifies him to work in Rudy's company in a legal capacity.

What's stunningly atypical about the grand jury proceeding is that they were hearing and investigating a matter that they could never issue a true bill of indictment on because the statute had run, and they knew this up front. Thus, there would never be a legal, constitutional venue in which Placa could present a defense to a trial jury. The argument against that is that he isn't entitled to one because no charges were brought so he was never in legal jeopardy. But even though Placa wasn't in criminal legal jeopardy, the grand jury report nevertheless aided the civil case and in that respect Placa was helpless inasmuch as the civil case was against the Church, not Placa as an individual, and the Church controlled the filings and responses in the suit. Mao and Stalin would be proud. BTW, the prosecutor who took this to the grand jury knowing he had no allegations of recent molestations that fell within the statute of limitations is a 'rat.

Brian Ross and other DBM personalities have been pushing this story for months off and on. Apparently they fear Rudy might beat Hillary, that being the same Hillary they have not questioned about her hiring of Sandy "Socks" Berger for her campaign. Yet a huge deal is made of Rudy standing by his best friend of 39 years because the friend was accused of groping two teenage boys (which, by the way, is NOT pedophilia) in what amounted to a lose-lose tribunal because there could never be a trial in which he could present his defense. It's sad to watch good-hearted fellow conservatives fall for this DBM smearing of a man for standing by his lifelong friend when what it's really about is that he's a 'pub threatening their Queen Hillary, yet have no problem with Fred Thompson representing Planned Parenthood for mere money. That's not to say Thompson isn't pro-life and hasn't voted pro-life in his senate career - he has, and I'm grateful for it. But please, let's be fair. Either A, stop bashing all the candidates (well, except Ron Paul who is certifiably nuts), or B, put all the candidates' dirty laundry on the table. I much prefer A because B only helps the 'rats.

[PaulRevere]

<img width="137" height="174" src="http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/news.aol.com/political-machine/media/2007/10/77351968.jpg">
How do you guys like my Nancy Pelosi imitation?

[Republican_Legion]

Rudy is NOT "one of our own" ... He is a RINO .. A Democrat in Disguise ...

If you want to call him "One of Our Own" ( I surely do not want him in my camp ) , lets turn it around ...

when will "our own" stop shitting on us , the Conservative base ??

Give Rudy a Miller Beer ,a Ford vehicle a nice silky dress and let him run FEMA ...

Ditto. Rudy is just a NewYork City slickster.

[Republican_Legion]

Anyone who is against neocommie.com is one of us. Get real. This isn't some elitists club. Thats what Hanoi John and the Deaniacs are about. Thats what Hillarys Village is about.

That's not what America is about.


when will "our own" stop shitting on us , the Conservative base ?? -- Dpasse


Maybe you missed Buchanans Brigade when they mounted up and rode off to the sound of the gunfire, only to be seen over at MSNBC today. Over with that conservative icon and lead soft-shoe man of "Dancing with the Stars" Tucker Carlson. What base are you talking about, the ones who drew the slings and arrows against Bush when the polls went south?

We need everyone who is proud to be called conservative and start praying for more or haven't you noticed we lost the last round to the pukes who don't even have a plan. How did that happen with this group your talking about in full force? It looked to me more like the "Mclaughlin Group."

There you go again saying more mumble jumbo drifting off about stuff not related to the
topic. It seems like no matter the scandal or dirt you always fine some slicksters way to make rudy come out on top in all of this.

Also if your a "Democrat" thats for "Rudy" you shouldnt care what the GOP thinks about Rudy.

[The_Elucidator]

Well I for one have been so taken back as to the "unworthiness" of all the GOP candidates that I am just going to vote for the Democratic nominee since nobody here seems to find fault in them...

[Republican_Legion]

Well I for one have been so taken back as to the "unworthiness" of all the GOP candidates that I am just going to vote for the Democratic nominee since nobody here seems to find fault in them...

The stuff about rudy has been going on here for about a year or so why the sudden shift & change ? I suspected it was sooner or later some would start getting upset that some of us wont ever back a Liberal like Rudy Giuliani.

Twisting it around that the people who dont like "Rudy the Liberal" are finding no fault in the Democrat candidates is a MAJOR stretch.

[Jack_Savage]

There you go again saying more mumble jumbo drifting off about stuff not related to the
topic. It seems like no matter the scandal or dirt you always fine some slicksters way to make rudy come out on top in all of this.

Also if your a "Democrat" thats for "Rudy" you shouldnt care what the GOP thinks about Rudy.
There you go again saying more mumble jumbo drifting off about stuff not related to the
topic. -- Legion


Try this. Go back into that place where you form your thoughts and see what looks like mumbo-jumbo to you. See if it is your lack of understanding, and therefor a problem deep in you, or, if as you hope to view it, it is a problem in me, all the way over in here, and you just can't handle the metaphore. I would suggest when you get back in there, you look around and see what else doesn't make sense to you. Report back with what you find. Be specific please.


It seems like no matter the scandal or dirt you always fine some slicksters way to make rudy come out on top in all of this.-- Legion

Again, its seems the way it seems, in you, not in me. Have you ever taken one of those ink-blot tests? What do they seem like to you? Be responsible for the way it seems in you. Please, don't blame me for how you are.

Also if your a "Democrat" thats for "Rudy" you shouldnt care what the GOP thinks about Rudy. -- Legion

Where does it say that?



Try this Legion, since you do alot of what you do with your feelings, think about the Mob-hits put on Rudy when he was cleaning up New York, think of what you think Rudy felt like, and what you would feel like if you were doing that job. On the courage meter, what would the difference be if any?

[The_Elucidator]

Twisting it around that the people who dont like "Rudy the Liberal" are finding no fault in the Democrat candidates is a MAJOR stretch.

Rudy? Are you shitting me? I am talking about Mayor Bloomberg! The fact that none of you are willing to support Mayor Bloomberg just blows my freakin' mind. Look at all that he has done for the city of New York, just like Rudy did! Screw Thompson, Huck, Romney, McCain, Hunter, Tancredo and Paul! The only one here that even has a chance to beat Hitlery is Bloomberg...

[Suzie]

:lol: Luc

I won't have a Democrat on my ballot this time ... well except for Rudy. I am hoping I can't say there are 2 democrats to choose from next go round. One election at a time.

[Republican_Legion]

There you go again saying more mumble jumbo drifting off about stuff not related to the
topic. -- Legion


Try this. Go back into that place where you form your thoughts and see what looks like mumbo-jumbo to you. See if it is your lack of understanding, and therefor a problem deep in you, or, if as you hope to view it, it is a problem in me, all the way over in here, and you just can't handle the metaphore. I would suggest when you get back in there, you look around and see what else doesn't make sense to you. Report back with what you find. Be specific please.


It seems like no matter the scandal or dirt you always fine some slicksters way to make rudy come out on top in all of this.-- Legion

Again, its seems the way it seems, in you, not in me. Have you ever taken one of those ink-blot tests? What do they seem like to you? Be responsible for the way it seems in you. Please, don't blame me for how you are.

Also if your a "Democrat" thats for "Rudy" you shouldnt care what the GOP thinks about Rudy. -- Legion

Where does it say that?



Try this Legion, since you do alot of what you do with your feelings, think about the Mob-hits put on Rudy when he was cleaning up New York, think of what you think Rudy felt like, and what you would feel like if you were doing that job. On the courage meter, what would the difference be if any?

Your the very reason why I didnt become a Democrat. They dodge the topic on hand and talke nonsense and "Suzie" herself has had to numerious times to steer you back onto the topic because you drift off.

Your annoying Democrat tactics are becoming annoying.
Stuff like this

"Try this Legion, since you do alot of what you do with your feelings, think about the Mob-hits put on Rudy when he was cleaning up New York, think of what you think Rudy felt like, and what you would feel like if you were doing that job. On the courage meter, what would the difference be if any"

What the heck does that have to do with topic about Rudy and the pedophile priest ?
Try to stay on topic with the rest of us adults. Thank you.

[Republican_Legion]

The media isn't the only one saying this man did something worthy of punishment. The Catholic church IS punishing him. Why do you think that is? They certainly aren't known for punishing priests accused of this, but they sent him packing.

Do you have that blind a loyalty to Rudy that you can't admit this is a bad move for a presidential candidate? I am not the one making Rudy look bad. RUDY is.

It does appear that way. I dont know how it is he didnt know about all this stuff before he became 100% sold on Rudy.

I think he new because he goes on being a smartass telling me I am not smart and if he is so smart he would have researched Rudy before he decided to be "Dem for Rudy".

He goes on trying to tell me that I'm insane with his "ink block" statement and goes on about other stuff that are Democrat tactics.

[Jack_Savage]

It does appear that way. I dont know how it is he didnt know about all this stuff before he became 100% sold on Rudy.-- Legion

Did you expect to know?

He goes on trying to tell me that I'm insane with his "ink block" statement and goes on about other stuff that are Democrat tactics.-- Legion

Again, that is how you see it. The test helps in distinguishing what is real for you.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>I think he new because he goes on being a smartass telling me I am not smart and if he is so smart.....Legion

Again, who is being the smartass, who is smart and who isn't?

[Jack_Savage]

What the heck does that have to do with topic about Rudy and the pedophile priest ?
Try to stay on topic with the rest of us adults. Thank you. --Legion

If you don't know, who should I ask?


Your the very reason why I didnt become a Democrat. --Legion


What does that have to do with Rudy and the pedophile priest?

[Venus de Smilo]

Well I for one have been so taken back as to the "unworthiness" of all the GOP candidates that I am just going to vote for the Democratic nominee since nobody here seems to find fault in them...

Yep, me too. One of us should go into the dartboard game business - sell dartboard sets that use photos of the 'pub candidate's faces instead of the usual colored rings.

[Venus de Smilo]

What the heck does that have to do with topic about Rudy and the pedophile priest ?
Try to stay on topic with the rest of us adults. Thank you. --Legion

If you don't know, who should I ask?


Your the very reason why I didnt become a Democrat. --Legion


What does that have to do with Rudy and the pedophile priest?
The allegation is that Placa groped teenage boys. A pedophile is drawn to and molests prepubescent kids, not sexually mature youngsters. Even if Placa did what he is accused of, he would not fit the definition of "pedophile."

[Jack_Savage]

The allegation is that Placa groped teenage boys. A pedophile is drawn to and molests prepubescent kids, not sexually mature youngsters. Even if Placa did what he is accused of, he would not fit the definition of "pedophile."
The facts of the case as you point out are more than vague at this point. The only reason to bring it up is to discredit Rudy. I can understand the left doing it, but not conservatives who may be relying on Rudy to beat Hillary.

And as you point out, the thread is factually incorrect.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

I can understand the left doing it, but not conservatives who may be relying on Rudy to beat Hillary.

We are not yet relying on Rudy to beat Hillary, and many of us don't want that "responsibility" put on his shoulders.

[Rhino]

:eek: Yikes that photo isn't as big on the story page.Fixed.

[Jack_Savage]

We are not yet relying on Rudy to beat Hillary, and many of us don't want that "responsibility" put on his shoulders.
What people want and what works are not always the same. Especially today, given the success conservatives had last year.

[Rhino]

Last year isn't going to apply that much. That was a backlash response that analysis shows will not be a major factor next year. Elections are weird though. It's never easy to tell.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

What people want and what works are not always the same. Especially today, given the success conservatives had last year.

You may be willing to abandon ship mid-stream and jump in Rudy's dingy, but I'm waiting till we get to the dock. The ship's not sinking. The idea behind the Primary is to pick the candidate that best represents the people. I'll worry about relying on Rudy if or when we come to that bridge, in the meantime he does not represent me, as a Republican or a Conservative. At this point, he will not be getting my vote.

[Jack_Savage]

You may be willing to abandon ship mid-stream and jump in Rudy's dingy, but I'm waiting till we get to the dock. The ship's not sinking. The idea behind the Primary is to pick the candidate that best represents the people. I'll worry about relying on Rudy if or when we come to that bridge, in the meantime he does not represent me, as a Republican or a Conservative. At this point, he will not be getting my vote.
I am not, and do not recomment anyone abandoning anything except trying to get the ultra-left voters to abandon Hillary and Obama. I am for Rudy and Fred and all of the others on our side to be the best they can be.

What have I posted negitive about Fred? How would that support the things I want to take place?


You may be willing to abandon ship mid-stream and jump in Rudy's dingy --Homeschooler

I have been for Rudy since 9/11. I'm not the one who called him a ghoul, that was you. Who does that serve but the ugly-left wing, not Fred, in my opinion. Not conservatives in the long run, no matter who wins the Republican nomination.

[The_Elucidator]

Hey, let's leave Rudy's dingy out of this.. :ooo:

[Gonzo67]

I have been for Rudy since 9/11. I'm not the one who called him a ghoul, that was you. Who does that serve but the ugly-left wing, not Fred, in my opinion. Not conservatives in the long run, no matter who wins the Republican nomination.


Ok, I'm sorry, and I don't mean to offend, but I have just GOT to ask...

I've been puzzled for quite some time now... But by your name DEMOCRAT4Rudy you proclaim yourself to be a Democrat. Hence, left winger... and yet you lace your posts with phrases like "the ugly-left wing" etc. You speak of being pro-conservatives, etc... what's the deal?

Identity crisis?

Politically Bi-Curious?

Multiple Personality Disorder?

WHAT THE F**K IS THE DEAL!

Pick one dude, and go with it... but clue us in.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

I am not, and do not recomment anyone abandoning anything except trying to get the ultra-left voters to abandon Hillary and Obama. I am for Rudy and Fred and all of the others on our side to be the best they can be.

Okay.

What have I posted negitive about Fred? How would that support the things I want to take place?

Where in those two posts (#79 & #83) did I accuse you of posting something negative about Fred? I have no idea the things you support, why would I say anything about it. I was speaking for me, personally.

I'm not the one who called him a ghoul, that was you.

True. I did use that derogatory term a couple of times to refer to former-Mayor Giuliani, and I apologize. I was caught up in the heat of the moment/post, but that's no excuse. Again, I apologize.

Who does that serve but the ugly-left wing, not Fred, in my opinion. Not conservatives in the long run, no matter who wins the Republican nomination.

How does that serve the left-wing? They don't get their talking points from HomeschoorsRUs at FreeConservatives. Agreed name-calling is inappropriate and childish, and I do apologize for it. However, posting articles of relevance to a candidate running for office, is not, and I will not apologize for running across and posting articles that aren't gushing in worship to Rudy Giuliani. I do not want him to get the Republican Presidential Nomination, because he does not represent me.

[Republican_Legion]

I'm not the one who called him a ghoul, that was you. Who does that serve but the ugly-left wing, not Fred, in my opinion. Not conservatives in the long run, no matter who wins the Republican nomination.


Actually calling him a Ghoul doesnt help the Leftwing.
In general what doesnt help Rudy helps Conservative candidates stand a better chance at the GOP nomination.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Rudy? Are you shitting me? I am talking about Mayor Bloomberg! The fact that none of you are willing to support Mayor Bloomberg just blows my freakin' mind. Look at all that he has done for the city of New York, just like Rudy did! Screw Thompson, Huck, Romney, McCain, Hunter, Tancredo and Paul! The only one here that even has a chance to beat Hitlery is Bloomberg...

Apparently that's what Steve Forbes thinks, :smirky:

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/Forbes_predicts_Bloomberg/2007/10/25/44026.html
Forbes Predicts Bloomberg-Gore Ticket

Publisher Steve Forbes predicts that former vice president and recent Nobel laureate Al Gore will endorse New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg's independent bid for president.


Bloomberg will return the favor by naming Gore his running mate, Forbes says.

[Jack_Savage]

Ok, I'm sorry, and I don't mean to offend, but I have just GOT to ask...

I've been puzzled for quite some time now... But by your name DEMOCRAT4Rudy you proclaim yourself to be a Democrat. Hence, left winger... and yet you lace your posts with phrases like "the ugly-left wing" etc. You speak of being pro-conservatives, etc... what's the deal?

Identity crisis?

Politically Bi-Curious?

Multiple Personality Disorder?

WHAT THE F**K IS THE DEAL!

Pick one dude, and go with it... but clue us in.
In other words, whats the story?


I honestly have no idea what would lead you to conclude I chase the rabbit in the direction you point. Fill me in and be specific. By the way, is that you in the funny hat?

[Jack_Savage]

True. I did use that derogatory term a couple of times to refer to former-Mayor Giuliani, and I apologize. I was caught up in the heat of the moment/post, but that's no excuse. Again, I apologize.-- Homeschooler

Well heck, you don't owe me any apology but I appreciate the clarification. I am just posting my opinion on it. As far as your question about Fred, I know you didn't accuse me of taking shots at Fred.

The only guy I have taken shots at is Ron Paul and McCain. I don't think I hurt McCain by taking a shot at him but I also don't think It helped Rudy or Fred in doing it. Probably helped McCain if anything. So I try not to do it.

But look thats just me. I don't object to you opposing Rudy. I know your concerns are genuine. I understand it. My point Homeschooler is about a strategy which will support whomever gets the nomination. That isn't to say I am right and your wrong. The situation is a tough one. I have considerations about all of the candidates, but not about Hillary and Obama.

So my point is what I said. It speaks for itself. If you don't agree, Ok. I'm going to keep saying it when I think its valid. Its not an attack on anyone who is for Fred or against Rudy. I think I'm right on when saying lets see what happens around the next few corners before we start shooting knee-caps off, but thats just me.

Some on the forum will never vote for Rudy. Ok. What good does that do in giving our enemys that information? If anything having conservative handles against Rudy probably helps him with the larger audience in this country. Think about this; Rudy isn't the enemy. Obama is an enemy. Hillary and her agenda is an enemy to this country, period. thats where I'm coming from. All of the conservative candidates that stood up on the debate stage and answered questions to rid this country of the freaks who have taken the Democrat Party over have shown real class. They make the rest of the country think. Thats good news. Even Ron Paul may help because he is a glaring example of the idiots on the other side. Real contrast. He looks like a incestual first cousin to Senator Reid.


Lets see who the nominee is, is my point. Not some decision for everyone else to follow.

Unless this is an Elect-Fred club? IF thats what this is, I didn't know. Ill keep it to myself then.

[Gonzo67]

In other words, whats the story?


I honestly have no idea what would lead you to conclude I chase the rabbit in the direction you point. Fill me in and be specific. By the way, is that you in the funny hat?


Yes, what's the story. Are you a Democrat that is not aware he's supporting a pseudo-republican, are you a Democrat that knows Rudy is as much of a republican as Hilary is, so you're actually backing a Democrat? etc.

And yes, that's me in the "funny hat" which only appears to be a "funny hat". It's a leather western (cowboy) hat, the reason it appears "odd" is because that is a live ball python crawling on it.

[Suzie]

Democrat4Rudy I gotta admit I also don't understand why you call yourself a democrat given your views and seem offended when anyone calls Rudy one.

[Jack_Savage]

Yes, what's the story. Are you a Democrat that is not aware he's supporting a pseudo-republican G-67

I'm pretty sure what I'm doing, you?


It's a leather western (cowboy) hat, the reason it appears "odd" is because that is a live ball python crawling on it. g-67

I've been pretty good with the snakes too.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Well heck, you don't owe me any apology but I appreciate the clarification

You're welcome for the clarification, but wasn't apologizing to you or for you, I was apologizing because I regret acting in such a manner.

I am just posting my opinion on it.

As am I.

As far as your question about Fred, I know you didn't accuse me of taking shots at Fred.

Then why did you ask me:
What have I posted negitive about Fred? How would that support the things I want to take place?

The only guy I have taken shots at is Ron Paul and McCain. I don't think I hurt McCain by taking a shot at him but I also don't think It helped Rudy or Fred in doing it. Probably helped McCain if anything. So I try not to do it.

How could any of that help or hurt anyone? This is a forum board, a venue for posting about politics and political thing. We aren't the first line of defense for political campaigns, nor are we the NYT handing out candidate's political secrets, nor the perveyors of talking points for the demunists and socialibs. We come here to blow off steam, we do NOT act in the manner of libs by giant protests, or staging stunt like CodePink, or jump up on stage to accept some kind of liberal award only to make a poltically charged acceptance speech.

But look thats just me.

Apparently.

I don't object to you opposing Rudy.

No, just so long as I don't post any articles in opposition to him, or post my position regarding not supporting him right now prior to the Primary, or state the obvious that he is not Conservative, or ... hmmm, maybe you do object me opposing Rudy.

I know your concerns are genuine. I understand it. My point Homeschooler is about a strategy which will support whomever gets the nomination.

We're not there yet. Talk to me AFTER the nomination. Until such time that the ticket is established I don't have to support or think about a Giuliani run for the Presidency, because I am determined to do everything I can to stop that from coming to fruition. He is not Conservative, and he does not represent me.

That isn't to say I am right and your wrong. The situation is a tough one. I have considerations about all of the candidates, but not about Hillary and Obama.

I'm with ya on Hillary and Obama, but I have no considerations about any other candidate than the one I feel can best represent the Conservative Republican ideology. Rudy isn't it, so my considerations go elsewhere.

So my point is what I said. It speaks for itself. If you don't agree, Ok. I'm going to keep saying it when I think its valid. Its not an attack on anyone who is for Fred or against Rudy. I think I'm right on when saying lets see what happens around the next few corners before we start shooting knee-caps off, but thats just me.

Okay, well, you use quite a bit of double-speak so I'm sorry your point doesn't speak well. I'm not shooting knee-caps, I'm eliminating those candidates which aren't, in my opinion, acceptable. I do not buy into the lie that Rudy Giuliani is the ONLY candidate that can take on and beat Hillary.

Some on the forum will never vote for Rudy. Ok.

I have said that. And I've also said that IF it comes to pass that he is the candidate, I will be forced to pray and fast and seek direction whether or not to vote for him.

What good does that do in giving our enemys that information?

Who? Does the DNC monitor FreeConservatives? Are there Hillary operatives posing as freecers among us? Sorry but that camp is already aware of the fact that many Conservatives are NOT happy with a Giuliani nomination. It's not a secret.

If anything having conservative handles against Rudy probably helps him with the larger audience in this country.

Huh? Please define "conservative handles" in the context of your statement.

Think about this; Rudy isn't the enemy.

He's an enemy to Conservatism.

Obama is an enemy. Hillary and her agenda is an enemy to this country, period. thats where I'm coming from. All of the conservative candidates that stood up on the debate stage and answered questions to rid this country of the freaks who have taken the Democrat Party over have shown real class. They make the rest of the country think. Thats good news.

We who do not support Rudy make people think too. Think about his record, think about his words, think about his actions, and think about whether one might REALLY want a candidate who has an R behind his name, but acts like a D.

Even Ron Paul may help because he is a glaring example of the idiots on the other side. Real contrast. He looks like a incestual first cousin to Senator Reid.

Oh so Ron Paul helps our cause, but those of us who do not accept a RINO candidate and are vocal about it, well we're giving aid and comfort to the "Dem-enemy"?

Lets see who the nominee is, is my point. Not some decision for everyone else to follow.

Agreed.

Unless this is an Elect-Fred club? IF thats what this is, I didn't know. Ill keep it to myself then.

Nope, and neither is it an Elect-Rudy club.

[Suzie]

:clap: Homes :thumb:

[dPrasse]

Hey, let's leave Rudy's dingy out of this.. :ooo:

Kinda hard to leave Rudy's dingy out of a discusdsion of a pedophile friend , isn't it ? :D

[Gonzo67]

Yes, what's the story. Are you a Democrat that is not aware he's supporting a pseudo-republican G-67

I'm pretty sure what I'm doing, you?


It's a leather western (cowboy) hat, the reason it appears "odd" is because that is a live ball python crawling on it. g-67

I've been pretty good with the snakes too.


Ok, did you see how I did that? I asked you a question. You responded with a vague answer that indicated you needed clarification on what exactly I was asking, and you asked me a question.

When I responded, I clarified my question like you wanted, and I answered your question with a direct, clear answer, and then you retort with yet another vague statement, avoiding the question once again.

So, since you REFUSED to clarify, I'll just have to work on an assumption. I tried to work with facts, but you refuse to give any, so assumptions are all I have left.

I will therefore have to assume you're nothing more than a baiting little democrat troll, most likely from Duh or FISTED, and as such, serve no useful purpose anymore. And until you answer the question, as far as I'm concerned, dismissing you and ignoring the rest of your comments is pretty much all that you are worthy of from now on.

Give my regards to the crew at FISTED when you gather enough quotes to fill your quota for this quarter.

[Suzie]

:howdy: I have asked too. Twice.... still no answer.

[Gonzo67]

See above.. Rudy is nothing more than a Democrat that stole a republican's ID. He's loyal to his illegal immigrant buddies, and as far as I am concerned, he can keep his ass in New York with that Demonrat shrew called Hitlery.

[Jack_Savage]

When I responded, I clarified my question like you wanted --G-67

No you didn't. You avoided my question. Ran away from it. Changed the subject. Didn't give one specifc reason. But it is a funny picture.

[Jack_Savage]

We come here to blow off steam, we do NOT act in the manner of libs by giant protests, or staging stunt like CodePink, or jump up on stage to accept some kind of liberal award only to make a poltically charged acceptance speech. --Home

And your point is what, that this is your little club to blow off steam? Stomp your feet at what doesn't agree with you. Go ahead. You don't have to tell me about it. I don't agree with your take on it. Is this forum big enough for that.

He's an enemy to Conservatism. --Home

In your mind. Your view of it. But what did that have to do with last years election. Conservatives, which conservatives? Define them for me.

We who do not support Rudy make people think too.-- Home

Sure you do.
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Democrat4Rudy
Even Ron Paul may help because he is a glaring example of the idiots on the other side. Real contrast. He looks like a incestual first cousin to Senator Reid.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Oh so Ron Paul helps our cause, but those of us who do not accept a RINO candidate and are vocal about it, well we're giving aid and comfort to the "Dem-enemy"? --Home

Read it again.


Huh? Please define "conservative handles" in the context of your statement. --Home

This forum. Your singing to the choir. But if thats your objective then you win. My objective is to nominate a candidate who can beat Hillary and Obama. Rudy looks to me to be the most effective. Its stunning that you think, saying "Oh-God, I would hate to vote for him, but if he is the only person there, I will do it" will somehow enroll others to vote for Rudy if he is the nominee. Or that others, who know your a supporter of Fred, will endear them to Fred or your cause?

Oh, thats right, your just letting off steam. Forgot what this was about for you. Its not what its about for me. Read my messages if your unsure of where I'm coming from. I'm also not interested in joining some bowling club. Nothing wrong with bowling clubs. There fine, just not for me.

[Gonzo67]

I'd love to hear your explination for that one... I "avoided your question"? I "ran away from it"? and I "changed the subject"?

Let's see, you asked if that was me in the picture wearing the "funny hat".

An answer that required a simple yes or no. To which I responded "Yes" and I clarified that the only reason the hat appeared "funny" is because there is a live python crawling on it.

So not only did I CLEARLY answer your question, I elaborated with an explanation on why the hat appeared funny.

Now, Please, Mr. Democratic twit... do tell how I "avoided", "ran away from" or "changed the subject" in response to YOUR question?

[Jack_Savage]

Now, Please, Mr. Democratic twit... do tell how I "avoided", "ran away from" or "changed the subject" in response to YOUR question?--
Gonzo

Wow, you are funny. Calling me a troll, now a twit. Who do you think you are? Your best punch is only a cheap shot. Your vulger little attacks explain who you are not me.

Did I miss something, eh, do you have some seniority here? Go tell your little story to someone who cares.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

We come here to blow off steam, we do NOT act in the manner of libs by giant protests, or staging stunt like CodePink, or jump up on stage to accept some kind of liberal award only to make a poltically charged acceptance speech. --Home

You do realize that FC Has a quote feature so you don't have to retype other's posts, right? The little button at the bottom of each post which says "Quote" will do it for you so you don't have to retype or cut and paste.


And your point is what, that this is your little club to blow off steam?

My point is that FreeConservatives is a privately owned forum posting board, and that we have nothing to do with political campaigns, ergo what we say here is not going to have national and/or political ramifications.

Stomp your feet at what doesn't agree with you.

Please show me where I've done that.

Go ahead. You don't have to tell me about it.

I was posting my opinion. You can choose to read it, ignore it, or reply to it. I am free to do the same.

I don't agree with your take on it. Is this forum big enough for that.

Yes, it's big enough for that. Do you have a problem with others disagreeing with YOU? It seems that you do.

He's an enemy to Conservatism. --Home


In your mind. Your view of it.

Yes. My mind. My view of it. My opinion. That's why I expressed it.

But what did that have to do with last years election.

Huh? When did the discussion switch to last year's election? Where did I say anything about last year's election? This is what I meant about the double-speak, you're making no sense.

Conservatives, which conservatives? Define them for me.

What do you mean "which conservatives"? I said Rudy Giuliani is not a conservative. You want me to define "Conservatism", is that what you're asking?

We who do not support Rudy make people think too.-- Home


Sure you do.

We finally agree on something, :smirky:

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Democrat4Rudy
Even Ron Paul may help because he is a glaring example of the idiots on the other side. Real contrast. He looks like a incestual first cousin to Senator Reid.



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Oh so Ron Paul helps our cause, but those of us who do not accept a RINO candidate and are vocal about it, well we're giving aid and comfort to the "Dem-enemy"? --Home

Read it again.

I did. It still reads the same way. Ron Paul helps by being an idiot and syphoning off Republican votes, but we who point out Rudy's faults, and point toward different candidates to represent our ideology, we are giving aid and comfort to the "Dem-enemy." Did you not say this:

What good does that do in giving our enemys that information?

Who does that serve but the ugly-left...



Huh? Please define "conservative handles" in the context of your statement. --Home

This forum. Your singing to the choir.

That sentence simply makes no sens. I'm not "singing to the choir" I'm posting on a posting board. This isn't a campaign headquarter, or grass-roots organization.

But if thats your objective then you win. My objective is to nominate a candidate who can beat Hillary and Obama.

My objective for posting here is very different than my political objective. I post here because I desire political discussions I can't get where I live, because I live in a liberal enclave and when I try to talk politics with people I know, they shun me like a vampire. :smirky:

Rudy looks to me to be the most effective.

Good for you. He doesn't to me. See, we can disagree and the sky doesn't fall down. :smirky:

Its stunning that you think, saying "Oh-God, I would hate to vote for him, but if he is the only person there, I will do it" will somehow enroll others to vote for Rudy if he is the nominee.

I believe there's no reason to say that yet. He's not the nominee. I feel my energy is best exercised in trying to get someone else nominated besides him, so why waste time on that hypothetical if I don't have to yet. And for the record, in case you didn't catch it in my previous post, I did say IF he got the nomination, I would seriously fast and pray about whether or not to vote for him. I've said this elsewhere, in other threads too.

Or that others, who know your a supporter of Fred, will endear them to Fred or your cause?

I guess it's the same reasoning behind why you keep cheerleading for Rudy and responding to those of us who won't. Perhaps you're still hoping to change our minds? That's the only reason I can come up with as to why you do.

Oh, thats right, your just letting off steam. Forgot what this was about for you.

Huh? What it's about, is posting on a forum board.

Its not what its about for me. Read my messages if your unsure of where I'm coming from. I'm also not interested in joining some bowling club. Nothing wrong with bowling clubs. There fine, just not for me.

I've been reading and rereading your posts. I've yet to figure out where you're coming from, because your posts are full of double-speak, and you change subjects in the middle of discussion.

[Jack_Savage]

I've been reading and rereading your posts. I've yet to figure out where you're coming from, because your posts are full of double-speak, and you change subjects in the middle of discussion.-- Home



Give me an example.

I wouldn't have put them out their if I didn't think they made sense. As I said, I like Rudy and Fred.

My point is that FreeConservatives is a privately owned forum posting board, and that we have nothing to do with political campaigns, ergo what we say here is not going to have national and/or political ramifications.

What was the most hits this forum had in a week? How many guests and members? Then how many of those mention that to someone else. And then again. If not openly, threaded in the communication about conservatives. I have been involved in several conservative campaigns and I gotta tell you I think your mistaken when you think it doesn't count. Ive also been posting on different forums for several years, under different names.

I lasted one day on the Democratic Forum many years ago. Think of that and me being a Democrat. Makes no sense. Right?

No. Its something different. You got your nose out of joint when I first joined talking about your brother or cousin, complaining I was too hard on Homosexual's. Since then you have had some attitude. Its ok, its yours. But my way is to say what I think also.

Please show me where I've done that. --Home

Its a figure of speech. Its what you communicated to me. Not the specific words, but the way you worked them. If you didn't intend to do that, I accept the clarification. So you were just sayin......it, all the stuff about me jumping ship and so forth, with deeply held feelings?


I did. It still reads the same way. Ron Paul helps by being an idiot and syphoning off Republican votes, but we who point out Rudy's faults, and point toward different candidates to represent our ideology, we are giving aid and comfort to the "Dem-enemy."

No. That isn't what I said, that is what you read into it. I clarified it for you. Ron Paul demonstrates being an idiot, on the stage with those who have some class. Its glaring. It enrolls people to join the conservatives. Just like CNN will have a debate about the one percent who are for Global Warming and fear, and the ninty nine percent who are for capitalism flourishing, by haveing two people debate it as if it were some close match. They pick some movie star to represent the one percent and a nit-wit like Ron Paul to represent the Conservatives. They always pick some wierd example of conservative thought and the other one representing the ultra-left is always one of the beautiful people. They are looking for ways to tear down Christians and Conservatives.

I am not saying to not express who your for. I think you know that, but I will say it again, it needs to be said over and over. The enemy is the other side, not those leading the campaign against Hillary. Say who your for. Say what Fred offers. You don't have to make someone else wrong to be right. If Fred has his sea-legs and can think on his feet he will do fine. If not, you screaming about how Rudy is a traitor, will not help it. Imo.

Huh? What it's about, is posting on a forum board. --Home

Thats what its about for you. Not for me. And I also let off steam, nothing wrong with that, but that isn't what its about for me. I hope that the combined intent of this forum makes some contribution to keeping Hilary and Obama out of our White House. I'm willing to do it so that will happen. What do I have to lose if it doesn't work compared to doing what I know doesn't work. Again, my opinion.

That sentence simply makes no sens. I'm not "singing to the choir" I'm posting on a posting board. This isn't a campaign headquarter, or grass-roots organization. -Home

Look, I used to fight these pukes. I can tell you theres only a handful of them. Or thats how it used to be. I'm pretty sure its still that way. Everyone one the conservatife side thought just like you that what they did, didn't count. Really it wasn't that, that was just the excuse to not have to be responsible about it. Own it. Too busy. If were going to play this game lets play for keeps since thats what the other side is doing.

Who are they? There the geeky-left, the Deaniacs who don't offer a plan or an idea, they have the right to be some organization that counts??? There just a bunch of punks who volunteer for several groups, to make it look like there are more of them, our side offers plans and Ideas. Shows class. All of them, except Ron Paul.

I believe there's no reason to say that yet. He's not the nominee.

You have yet to point out what saying those things does for Fred? Let me tell you what I think. Every step we take till the election is won, is important. The stakes are so high we don't want to look back and say, I should have taken it more seriously. I could have made a difference when there was time too. And again Home, I am not saying for you or Suzy or Rhino to give up one bit of integrity or ethics. No-no. I am saying that Rudy and Fred have solid points and are part of a great movement that has to be heard and taken seriously. The Hanoi-Johns and Hillarys have bitch-slapped the best this nation has to offer, like New't, Bush, Rumsfeld, etc.

I don't see the forum as some Koffee-kluch down at Kathys Kut-n-kurl gossiping about who's popular.

I take it seriously. . If more people took it seriously, wanted to become more effective at it, we would be passing the wand around to win, not to watch and vent. Again, that is just where I come from about it. Do it anyway you want. But allow me the same courtesy.

If you got some idea put in on the mat. Say it. We are all the CEO's of what we think works. You want to vent, Ok, I'm saying its more effective if you do it with the real enemy, not those who also want to get rid of Hillary. Knocking other conservatives is one of the important issues and reasons we have become divided and weak.

Reagan said never speak evil of another Republican. It was good advice.

[Gonzo67]

Ignore him Homes... he's a typical liberal democrat twit. He can't answer a simple question, he wont commit to a single view, all he does is twist shit till not even he knows what the shit he's talking about.

Best to just let the little liberal fade into oblivion.

[Jack_Savage]

Ignore him Homes... he's a typical liberal democrat twit. He can't answer a simple question, he wont commit to a single view, all he does is twist shit till not even he knows what the shit he's talking about.

Best to just let the little liberal fade into oblivion.

Boo-hoo-hoo-don't listen to him, he won't do this, he won't do what I want.....
Is that all you got? Man listen to yourself. Trying to enroll other members. Whats that?

Ive met some real smart and tough guys in my life, and gonzo, your not one of them.

[Gonzo67]

:rolleyes:

http://freeconservatives.com/smilies/bye-bye_kittie.gif

[Jack_Savage]

:rolleyes:

http://freeconservatives.com/smilies/bye-bye_kittie.gif
Oh thats right, its past your bedtime.

[Lazarus]

We damn well need to quit eating our own, that's for wure.Precisely!!! This isn't some High School Popularity contest we're talkin about... A Communist revolution - the real deal - is on our doorstep...

This internal party fragmentation is going to cost us this election because all those undecided fence sitters who blow with the prevailing popular wind are perceiving the Republican party as a house divided against itself and in a state of chaos - And they would be right!!!

In fact, Im leaning toward the conclusion - Yes, this early! - that we have already lost this election for nothing more than what is exactly happening here...

Everyone here needs to stop and remind themselves just who the enemy is and what is at risk...

[Riverboat]

Nobody has raised this question, so I will:

Why is a Catholic priest employed in political campaign at all? This isn't Rudy's problem, per se. He can hire anyone he wants to get something done. But the Church has clearly stated that clerics are NOT to be involved in politics. I don't mean political issues. During the reign of Pope John Paul II, of happy memory, Fr. Drinan, who was a congressman (a liberal one at that) was told to step down or face consequences.

[Suzie]

Nobody has raised this question, so I will:

Why is a Catholic priest employed in political campaign at all? This isn't Rudy's problem, per se. He can hire anyone he wants to get something done. But the Church has clearly stated that clerics are NOT to be involved in politics. I don't mean political issues. During the reign of Pope John Paul II, of happy memory, Fr. Drinan, who was a congressman (a liberal one at that) was told to step down or face consequences.

He doesn't have a job with the Church right now, regardless of his exact "status" he IS being punished by the church for his actions.

[Suzie]

What was the most hits this forum had in a week? How many guests and members?

Even though you won't answer my question I guess I can answer yours. "Hits" mean nothing when you are talking about a website. There are search engine spiders and web crawlers that add to that. In other words things that aren't real people actually reading.

According to Alexa (http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freeconservat ives.com%2F) this site has around 26 unique user page views per week as a 3 month average.

[The_Elucidator]

This internal party fragmentation is going to cost us this election because all those undecided fence sitters who blow with the prevailing popular wind are perceiving the Republican party as a house divided against itself and in a state of chaos - And they would be right!!!

In fact, Im leaning toward the conclusion - Yes, this early! - that we have already lost this election for nothing more than what is exactly happening here...

Everyone here needs to stop and remind themselves just who the enemy is and what is at risk...

Brother Laz you must quit channeling my thoughts on to this forum. Dude, do you have like.. ESPn or something?

I hear a few of my brothers and sisters telling me that we shouldn't fall for the DBM's lies.. Well I got news for ya.. This idea about the GOP being a house divided is smack on the money! And this divided house will fall and so will our country! If we are still having these petty arguments exactly 1 year from today... WE ARE SCREWED, and the communist movement that was started decades ago will have finally won. You can bet your butts on one thing; politics and free speech today as we know them will be forever gone.

[Suzie]

I have already said whoever gets the Gop nominee if it isn't Fred will be used by me to keep Hillary out. It will not be a vote of support unless it is Fred. Until it IS decided though, I see nothing wrong with trying to convince people Rudy the liberal is NOT the best choice as the nominee.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Pssst ... D4R, I wasn't being facecious or smart-alecky when I said there's a quote feature. There really is, you don't have to cut and paste, or retype when quoting me.

I've been reading and rereading your posts. I've yet to figure out where you're coming from, because your posts are full of double-speak, and you change subjects in the middle of discussion.

Give me an example.
I did, you obviously chose to ignore it.
But what did that have to do with last years election.
Huh? When did the discussion switch to last year's election? Where did I say anything about last year's election? This is what I meant about the double-speak, you're making no sense.

As I said, I like Rudy and Fred.
And as I said, I like Fred, I do not like Rudy.

My point is that FreeConservat