2nd Grader Commits Suicide - Prosecutor: Boy, 7, hanged himself

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

http://www.thedailyjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071026/NEWS01/710260308

Prosecutor: Boy, 7, hanged himself

VINELAND -- A 7-year-old boy who died at home Wednesday hanged himself, the prosecutor's office said.

The boy, who was reported to be a very good student, might have been upset about receiving a poor mark at school earlier in the day, sources said.

This is just so horrible. Prayers should be lifted up for this child's parents, family and friends as well as the other children at that school. What a tragedy. :sad:

[PrezLeefun]

OMG. That is truly awful. I am sure it was much more than a grade. There are always more reasons then what there seem to be at the surface.

I remember when I was about twelve (and very depressed myself) I heard a news story just like this... except the boy was 10.

It was more than the grade. It had to be something else, probably in relationship to what may happen because of the grade.

[Jester21]

That's awful.

[Ronin]

I'm very suspicious when suicides happen to children, with the drugs the schools are FORCING on the children like Ritalin and Paxil.:sad:

[TeenageRepublican]

I'm very suspicious when suicides happen to children, with the drugs the schools are FORCING on the children like Ritalin and Paxil.:sad:

Ritalin doesn't cause suicide. I have about two ADHD friends who take Ritalin and they're not hanging themselves. This is another paranoid lie planted by anti-ADHD-drug lefties. Ritalin is not half as bad as people think it is.
Drugs may have played a part in it though. I'm betting that this kid was bullied a lot because he was doing well in school or something else.

[Timberwolf]

It grieves me to read articles like this...I cannot fathom what the family is going through...

But, I have to wonder how much pressure was brought to bear on this poor child by his parents (to do well in school). Really...7 y-o don't just hang themselves for "a poor mark"...not in my world, anyway...

[PrezLeefun]

^^^I completely agree. I think there is much more to this. That kid probably had unreal pressure put upon him for him to consider that killing himself would be better than facing the consequences of one bad grade.

[Timberwolf]

Yeah, Prez...I hate to even consider such a heinous situation, and kinda feel like a jerk for posting it, but there HAS to be more to this than is being reported. MUCH more...

[Wolfcounsel]

"Ritalin doesn't cause suicide. I have about two ADHD friends who take Ritalin and they're not hanging themselves." --TeenageRepublican

All drugs can be a factor, and we would not know it, if we are not the ones who committed suicide. The kid can answer the question, but we all know he won't. I suspect a hard-driven kid, at that age, with a little bit of anal-retentivity on his part. I suspect it of all suicides anyway.

[TeenageRepublican]

"Ritalin doesn't cause suicide. I have about two ADHD friends who take Ritalin and they're not hanging themselves." --TeenageRepublican

All drugs can be a factor, and we would not know it, if we are not the ones who committed suicide. The kid can answer the question, but we all know he won't. I suspect a hard-driven kid, at that age, with a little bit of anal-retentivity on his part. I suspect it of all suicides anyway.

I guess that's right. But I haven't heard anyone commiting suicide just because of Ritalin alone.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

I know a young man, he is now my daughter's age (16), that was a very different child than I've ever dealt with before (and I've worked with children all my life, in various venues, for various reasons, with various types of kids). I've known this kid practically since birth, and he was ALWAYS an intense child. Didn't like children's things -- wouldn't color, play games, engage in creative play. His parents were decent people, but his mother had(has) more influence than his father because she is 20 years younger than her husband. This boy did well in school, but was never pressured by his parents. I remember her telling me about him getting a "B" in a class once, and he almost went on a hunger strike he was so upset --- this was in early elementary classes!

He's a great kid now, but always was ... just different. He looks at the world very seriously, very intently, and shows hardly any behaviors one might think "normal" for kid is age. He's gotten better though, he's now on the high school baseball team, and I've seen real growth in him.

[Timberwolf]

Okay...I, hopefully, stand corrected.

[Incident_command]

Ritalin doesn't cause suicide. I have about two ADHD friends who take Ritalin and they're not hanging themselves. This is another paranoid lie planted by anti-ADHD-drug lefties. Ritalin is not .

Your freinds may well be the one in a thousand who actually need it, but the real lie is saying all the kids that are on these drugs need to be. Thats the real paranoid lie behind ADHD, ADD, and any other alphabet disorder of the day.

[Venus de Smilo]

Your freinds may well be the one in a thousand who actually need it, but the real lie is saying all the kids that are on these drugs need to be. Thats the real paranoid lie behind ADHD, ADD, and any other alphabet disorder of the day.

I agree.

Give the teacher a Valium instead of Ritalin to kids. Odd how most of the kids who are given Ritalin are boys. I guess if they start squirming in their seats when forced to read poetry it means there's something wrong with them and they need to be drugged.

[Incident_command]

Its easier to sedate kids than it is to rid them of testosterone.

[Rhino]

Those aren't sedatives. Ritalin is actually the opposite, and Paxil is an anti-depressant.

[Ronin]

Those aren't sedatives. Ritalin is actually the opposite, and Paxil is an anti-depressant.
====
Paxil has a documented record of causing suicides in young children. Glaxo-Smith-Kline has a class action lawsuit filed against it by Paxil-users parents.

[Rhino]

True, but it's not a sedative, which was my point. Despite the fact that there was no mention of this kid being on any drug, people still fall back on the fallacies that we are sedating kids with ADHD, that schools are 'forcing' drugs on kids and that ADHD drugs are tied to suicides. None of that is really true, and as has been mentioned, those sensationalist fallacies detract from the fact that there are indeed many kids who need and benefit from such drugs. Yes, there are some out there who view them as a panacea 'cure all' when they should not, but that is by no means the norm, and it in no way indicates a problem with the drugs themselves. By the way, Paxil is a bad example in this case anyway, because it isn't approved for use on anyone younger than 18.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Those aren't sedatives. Ritalin is actually the opposite,..." --Rhino

I've seen only boys on Ritalin. They are glassy-eyed, with a wondering look on their faces, sitting very still, and asking all kinds of questions, where before they were normal, hyperactive, rambunctious and recalcitrant kids. Something is not right here. I did tell a teacher where the school could shove a drug that was once recommended to one of our boys many years back. Kids are naturally wild and noisy.

[PrezLeefun]

Okay...I, hopefully, stand corrected.

Sorry but I think kids like that are one in a million. Being let down or going on a hunger strike is one thing, killing yourself.... completely different ball game.

[Rhino]

I've seen only boys on Ritalin. They are glassy-eyed, with a wondering look on their faces, sitting very still, and asking all kinds of questions, where before they were normal, hyperactive, rambunctious and recalcitrant kids. Something is not right here. I did tell a teacher where the school could shove a drug that was once recommended to one of our boys many years back. Kids are naturally wild and noisy.Kids are indeed naturally wild and noisy, but ADD goes far beyond that, and in many ways that are not outwardly visible. Ritalin is actually an amphetamine, so it doesn't drug anyone into a stupor, which many uninformed people believe. I have no idea what could have made those boys glassy eyed, but it wouldn't have been Ritalin. Boys also have a much higher incidence of ADD than girls. We've probably all seen some rather unusual exceptions, but in cases where the medication is truly called for, it in no way drugs them into some kind of haze, and in very many cases, it works wonders. I don't think my oldest son would have ever made it through school had it not been for his ADD medication, and there are several other members here who can relate similar results. I am ADD myself, as are a couple of other members here, and I can personally attest that the medication in no way makes one glassy eyed or 'drugged down'.

Ronin, since you are relatively new here, I suggest you search some of the old threads for this stuff. It has been discussed here extensively before, and there is an incredibly large amount of misinformation circulating out there about ADD, and the medications used for it.

As an FYI for everyone, Ritalin isn't used much anymore. Better drugs have been develeoped, and they have pretty much pushed Ritalin out of the mainstream for some time now.

[Ronin]

Kids are indeed naturally wild and noisy, but ADD goes far beyond that, and in many ways that are not outwardly visible. Ritalin is actually an amphetamine, so it doesn't drug anyone into a stupor, which many uninformed people believe. I have no idea what could have made those boys glassy eyed, but it wouldn't have been Ritalin. Boys also have a much higher incidence of ADD than girls. We've probably all seen some rather unusual exceptions, but in cases where the medication is truly called for, it in no way drugs them into some kind of haze, and in very many cases, it works wonders. I don't think my oldest son would have ever made it through school had it not been for his ADD medication, and there are several other members here who can relate similar results. I am ADD myself, as are a couple of other members here, and I can personally attest that the medication in no way makes one glassy eyed or 'drugged down'.

Ronin, since you are relatively new here, I suggest you search some of the old threads for this stuff. It has been discussed here extensively before, and there is an incredibly large amount of misinformation circulating out there about ADD, and the medications used for it.

As an FYI for everyone, Ritalin isn't used much anymore. Better drugs have been develeoped, and they have pretty much pushed Ritalin out of the mainstream for some time now.

================
Maybe the material I read was old, anyhow, I stand corrected.:noggin::D

[Lubbock]

Here we go again with people who don't have a damned clue about ADD/ADHD weighing in.

Until you people have been there and lived with it, day in and day out, and thankfully seen the difference "drugs" have made, you need to keep your damned lame speculation to yourselves.

[Marshwiggle]

... but there HAS to be more to this than is being reported. MUCH more...

I agree... there is something about this article that just doesn't seem right to me...

I do not have small children anymore... but my daughter has a little 5 year old violin student... I can't imagine that even a child 2 years older, would even know how to commit suicide, much less carry it out... I mean we are talking about what, second grade here?

I don't think I would even know how to hang myself, how does a 7 year old know how to do this? And even if somehow he did know how to do it, how does a child get so profoundly depressed at age 7, and no once notices?

I definitely think there are more facts to this...
It is so heartbreaking, in any case... :sad:

[Wolfcounsel]

"Here we go again with people who don't have a damned clue about ADD/ADHD weighing in." --Lubbock

You're not joking again either, are you?:evilgrin:

[TeenageRepublican]

Boys also have a much higher incidence of ADD than girls. We've probably all seen some rather unusual exceptions, but in cases where the medication is truly called for, it in no way drugs them into some kind of haze, and in very many cases, it works wonders.

It worked real wonders for your's truly. For one thing the bullying actually stopped when I took Adderall (ADHD medication) and I stood still. I used to be teased because I would fidget non-stop.
It has also helped me with my writing. My writing has gotten better dramatically ever since I took the meds. Writers on the Writer's Digest forums say they have never seen anyone so young write like I do. It's all thanks to medication they gave me.
I probably always had this hidden talent, but it brought it out better and easier when I took the meds.

I am ADD myself, as are a couple of other members here, and I can personally attest that the medication in no way makes one glassy eyed or 'drugged down'.

Yep, if I was like that I wouldn't be on here.



As an FYI for everyone, Ritalin isn't used much anymore. Better drugs have been develeoped, and they have pretty much pushed Ritalin out of the mainstream for some time now.

My friend takes Ritalin. It's pretty chitty. He has to take it six times a day. That's why doctors came up with "Extended Release" or "XR" for short. It makes the medication last a lot longer than it used to.
Adderall is a really better developed medication that Ritalin, in my opinion. I've only seen Adderall and Ritalin people.
My Speech teacher has ADHD, she's no kid. You could obviously see it if you ever sat in her class. Her class is fun, but sometimes she gets off track a lot. She also paces and says random things.

[Republican_Legion]

====
Paxil has a documented record of causing suicides in young children. Glaxo-Smith-Kline has a class action lawsuit filed against it by Paxil-users parents.

I've been taking Paxil since I was 15 and these 7 years I've been taking it I have been overall much more happy.

Perhaps its because parents think the Drug will stop them from depression so they build a false sense that the child will not be depressed and that everything is fine and they are not closely monitoring their childs feelings.
Drugs dont do all the work. Alot of it is actual therapy and self motivation.


By the way, Paxil is a bad example in this case anyway, because it isn't approved for use on anyone younger than 18.

This must be something that happend in the last few years. I've never heard of this.

[Venus de Smilo]

Those aren't sedatives. Ritalin is actually the opposite, and Paxil is an anti-depressant.
I've read that Ritalin has a sedative or calming effect on kids, and basically the opposite effect on adults. I don't know if that's accurate, but it's probably an over-simplification.

[Venus de Smilo]

Does anyone know why it is that so many kids suddenly, meaning the last thirty or so years, need such drugs to function and learn? I remember there being some fidgety and mildly unruly boys and a couple fidgety girls when I was in grade school, but I don't remember there being problem kids or kids who just could not be calmed down enough to learn with an ordinary teacher rebuke to sit still and pay attention.

[Timberwolf]

Venus...I think it's because (and I'll probably get blasted for this) parents don't care about their kids the way they did 30 years ago. Now, it's all about me, me, me...30 years ago, parents were FAR more involved in their kids lives.

We now have the pharmaceuticals that take the place of parental discipline of years gone by.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Venus...I think it's because (and I'll probably get blasted for this) parents don't care about their kids the way they did 30 years ago." --Timberwolf

The only ones who will probably blast you are those people who go to a doctor because they have a nail in their head, and they feel much better when the doctor prescribes an extra-strength pain killer instead of removing the nail, and commence to heap praises upon the doctor's knowledge.

More than a few parents nowadays are for the most part shadows of their far superior ancestors.

[Incident_command]

Those aren't sedatives. Ritalin is actually the opposite, and Paxil is an anti-depressant.


True, technically sedate was a bad and incorrect choice of words. Control pharmacologically would have been more appropriate.

I have two nephews and a friend of the family who are on ritalin and while it may not be a classified sedative, it does cause a more sedate nature in the kids.
Oddly enough they also have two girls who act and behave the same as the the boys. Same trouble at school same discipline issues and the same doctor says they are not ADD.
IMO none of these kids have ADD just parents who refuse to properly discipline the kids.
In no way do I mean anyone else on this board falls into the same category. Sorry if I offended anyone.

[DesertFox]

We know more about physiology than we did 30 years ago. I expect that will be true about today 30 years from now.

It has long been recognized among the wise that "normal" is just about the last thing you encounter among people.

[DeclinetoState]

Forget about the Ritalin and all that. Everyone knows the kid offed himself because George W. Bush is president.

:(

{Don't think there aren't a lot of people out there who would take my sarcastic comment seriously, either.}

[Rhino]

This must be something that happend in the last few years. I've never heard of this.Yeah, that does seem weird.

Paxil (paroxetine) is not approved for patients younger than 18.http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/20061101/paxil-suicide-risk-in-young-adults

[Rhino]

I've read that Ritalin has a sedative or calming effect on kids, and basically the opposite effect on adults. I don't know if that's accurate, but it's probably an over-simplification.It sort of is. People with ADHD have the parts of their brain that regulates self control, understimulated. Small amounts of amphetamines like Ritalin or Adderall stimulate those portions of the brain, and that allows those people to better regulate their self control, and become less hyper. So, from a simplified outward appearance standpoint, it can look similar to sedation. But that isn't what is actually happening. These stimulant drugs simply allow these people to exercise normal self control, like everyone else. So, instead of drugging them into some 'altered' state, they are actually drugging them into a normal state. Untreated ADHD was an altered state to begin with. To many people who are not familiar with how this works, it most definitely sounds as if these folks are being drugged into some artificial haze, or similar state, when they are in fact being drugged into 'normalcy'. The misunderstanding is quite excusable though. My wife and I had to do quite a bit of research when they first suggested the medication for our oldest son, because on the surface it didn't sound right to us either. It works on adults too. I've taken Adderall myself. But most adults tend to 'adjust' to ADHD over time, so the medication is very often not needed for adults. That's why the incidence of medication is much higher in kids, and why it seems to have more effect on them.

[Rhino]

Venus...I think it's because (and I'll probably get blasted for this) parents don't care about their kids the way they did 30 years ago. Now, it's all about me, me, me...30 years ago, parents were FAR more involved in their kids lives.

We now have the pharmaceuticals that take the place of parental discipline of years gone by.Another common fallacy among those with little or no knowledge of ADHD. No amount of discipline or parental involvement will cure or correct ADHD.

However, There are indeed many kids out there diagnosed as ADHD, or simply presumed as ADHD, who do not actually have it. For those kids, your methodologies would likely be appropriate, but they would do nothing for a kid with ADHD, except that they would probably make the situation much worse.

[Timberwolf]

Exactly my point, Rhino...sorry, shoulda been more specific on that point. If parents WERE as involved nowadays, as they were in years gone by, we'd KNOW who the truly ADHD kids were. The majority of kids diagnosed as ADD/ADHD aren't...their parents are just clueless as to how to discipline them and therefore, resort to sedating them...and that's a VERY bad thing to do to a developing brain.

[CzechPrince]

Your freinds may well be the one in a thousand who actually need it, but the real lie is saying all the kids that are on these drugs need to be. Thats the real paranoid lie behind ADHD, ADD, and any other alphabet disorder of the day.

I take adderall for ADD....and it works wonders. Plus, I get heckled for it non stop by others for tests and such, especially at exam time so people can pull all nighters.

[Incident_command]

I take adderall for ADD....and it works wonders. Plus, I get heckled for it non stop by others for tests and such, especially at exam time so people can pull all nighters.

I'm glad you got help. I have no idea what it has to do with what you quoted me on though.

[Rhino]

IC is correct. ADD is rampantly overdiagnosed and overtreated, sometimes from sheer ignorance, from simple convenience and sometimes from incompetency. Those instances are a large part of why many people think it doesn't exist, and why people who truly suffere from it, also suffer the stigma that is often attached.

[CzechPrince]

I'm glad you got help. I have no idea what it has to do with what you quoted me on though.

Because you mentioned ADD specifically, whereas other people I saw only mentioned ADHD, and I'm not hyperactive :rotflmbo:

[Rhino]

Actually, in recent years they have simply been classified together as ADD. ADHD no longer exists as a standalone condition recognized by most psychological organizations. You are simply ADD, with either the attention deficit component or the hyperactivity component, or with both. Maintaining them as two different conditions got confusing. People still use the term ADHD quite widely, though.

[Wolfcounsel]

What needs to be discovered is a pill to mellow out anal-retentive people. No joke. No joke, people! I think anal-retentives are more prone to suicidal thoughts.

[Incident_command]

Because you mentioned ADD specifically, whereas other people I saw only mentioned ADHD, and I'm not hyperactive :rotflmbo:


What matters is you got the help none of us doubt you needed.:evilgrin:

[DesertFox]

http://freeconservatives.com/smilies/joker.gif

His mom didn't doubt it, either. :D

[Lubbock]

I think if a parent/doctor puts a kid on Ritalin who doesn't need it, big trouble is in the offing.

Rhino, please correct me if I am wrong: My understanding from the doctors that I have had help from in the past, is that if a child is misdiagnosed ADD/ADHD and is put on Ritalin, the drug will have an extreme adverse effect for the very reason that Ritalin is a "stimulant"; that is does stimulate the production of the enzyme lacking in the brain of ADD/ADHD individuals.

In other words, this "misdiagnosis and drugging just to cover up for bad parenting" that we hear so much about froom the uneducated, uninformed, and unwilling to learn, is blather.

[Rhino]

It can have such effects on non-ADD kids, but the effect will usually be minimal, because the doses are very low. But there probably will be some side effects. These are usually reduced appetite, headaches, jitteriness (like with too much coffee), irritability, and difficulty sleeping. There are some other, more profound effects, such as depression, psychosis or seizures, but luckily they are extremely rare. Although these drugs are stimulants, they are given in such low doses that the effects one might normally assume for a stimulant are rarely present. However, such side effects would very often tend to be more pronounced in a person that did not have ADD. Some of that is due to enzyme production effects intended for ADD sufferers, but some is also simply a byproduct of the medication itself. For instance, even kids with ADD can often have lessened appetites and difficulty sleeping, because those effects are not tied to the enzymes. All drugs have negative side effects, which is why we always weigh the benefits against the detractors. In many ADD kids, those benefits far outweigh the detractors. But giving the meds to non-ADD kids is indeed more likely to produce bad results.

[CzechPrince]

http://freeconservatives.com/smilies/joker.gif

His mom didn't doubt it, either. :D

Niether did my professors :evilgrin:

O I like that jester smiley! How fun!