Hillary's Been Wounded, & GOP Knows It

[The_Elucidator]

Great Read - Hillary's Michael Dukakis moment?

Hillary gives Republicans license to attack

<DL class=byline>James P. Pinkerton <DD>November 6, 2007 </DD></DL>The Democratic presidential front-runner is charging ahead, blowing past weak opposition. A lagging Democratic rival raises a critical issue in a candidates' debate, but does so in a halfhearted manner that gets little traction among Democrats. So the front-runner stays out front, as the others falter and fall out.

But damage has been done to the front-runner. A wound has been opened, a slow hemorrhaging has commenced, even if Democrats don't notice.

Over on the other side of the aisle, Republicans see the crimson trail - and smell blood. So they sit back and wait, until the general election.

-- snip --

But Dukakis wasn't destined to be the change that voters were looking for. He had been fatally wounded, politically, by Gore, back in April; he just didn't know it. That seemingly little issue of the weekend passes for first-degree murderers just wasn't going to go away.

Hitlery's Blood Trail (http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-oppin065448332nov06,0,6463881.column)

[Rhino]

I really don't think Hillary can win the presidency. My only real fear is that we will nominate Rudy.

[Lazarus]

Hilary is indeed wounded, and one of her opponents, John Edwards, is just the one to take her down... We may never face her in the general election...

Edwards WANTS the presidency as badly as she does... And he's an old campaigner in the sense that hsi is a successful, professional ambulance chaser... IOW, he's a fighter and is not at all afraid to wrestle in the mud for the victory... Edwards HAS to go after her will everything he has...

Regardless of how much it hurts his party's position in the eyes of the public, he must crush her... Otherwise he's only wasting his time and money, and he may as well withdraw from the race...

[PaulRevere]

She was against NY driver's licenses for illegal aliens before she was for it.
Or was she for NY driver's licenses for illegal aliens before she was against it?

I'm so confused!

Now's the time to wait and do nothing about Social Security!

[Venus de Smilo]

She was against NY driver's licenses for illegal aliens before she was for it.
Or was she for NY driver's licenses for illegal aliens before she was against it?

I'm so confused!

Now's the time to wait and do nothing about Social Security!

The answer is....both! Hitliary was against driver's licenses for illegals before she was for them and she was for them before she was against them. :D

The voting public will forget this soon enough and when the subject comes up in the general election, Hitliary will be against driver's licenses for illegals but with some "throw 'em a bone" caveat that 'rats and many centrists and independents can live with.

[Venus de Smilo]

I really don't think Hillary can win the presidency. My only real fear is that we will nominate Rudy.
Why? Do you think Hitliary beats Rudy? If so, why?

[PaulRevere]

I dunno. Neither Reagan or Bush weren't exactly champions in trying to overturn Roe v. Wade or much else on the social conservative agenda as far as I could tell beyond lip service. Reagan was responsible for the first mass amnesty bill for illegals. Why should we really expect that any of the current Republican candidates posing as social conservatives will actually do something for us? Indeed, how much can one man really do against the liberal establishment that owns the media, academia, so many state and local governments, and so on?

[DesertFox]

Excellent points, PR. Reagan had three primary goals: Beat the Soviets, beat inflation and lower taxes. He won on those three and his personality and not much else.

Of course, those three were more than anybody else achieved by far in any presidency of the last several decades.

[Rhino]

Why? Do you think Hitliary beats Rudy? If so, why?No. It's because I think Rudy would win, and to me he's just another version of Hillary. It also will send a message to the Republican Party that it's not only okay to run RINOs for POTUS, but that it's the best thing to do. In the end, we'll just have choices between different versions of liberals. Conservatives will no longer be a choice.

[Venus de Smilo]

No. It's because I think Rudy would win, and to me he's just another version of Hillary. It also will send a message to the Republican Party that it's not only okay to run RINOs for POTUS, but that it's the best thing to do. In the end, we'll just have choices between different versions of liberals. Conservatives will no longer be a choice.
So, you would rather have Hillary win by beating a (presently weaker) conservative 'pub candidate (say, Thompson, McCain or Romney) so the message to conservatives is preserved?

Just a question, Rhino: Do you view Hillary as just another 'rat with the usual (misguided) 'rat agenda?

[Jack_Savage]

No. It's because I think Rudy would win, and to me he's just another version of Hillary. It also will send a message to the Republican Party that it's not only okay to run RINOs for POTUS, but that it's the best thing to do. In the end, we'll just have choices between different versions of liberals. Conservatives will no longer be a choice.


Thats a hard one to swallow Rhino. Even if we as a society are in decline, it isn't Rudy to blame, it is the people. It will take a long time to redirect this speeding locomotive of political correctness designed to advance personal wants over workable ground rules that support a healthy society.

But Rudy isn't the enemy. I know you think he is but Rhino, even you can make a mistake. I am not invalidating you or what you stand for, I think what you want is truely a very honorable goal. Its your methods that are in question.

Working for the whole thing to fall down leaves out the option for people to realize a new course of action. Embrace plans and ideas. If it takes some time, ok, inch by inch works. Its the intent of the goal that counts not the time it takes.

Hillary does not have the intent, Rudy does.

[Naturalized-Texan]

No. It's because I think Rudy would win, and to me he's just another version of Hillary. It also will send a message to the Republican Party that it's not only okay to run RINOs for POTUS, but that it's the best thing to do. In the end, we'll just have choices between different versions of liberals. Conservatives will no longer be a choice.
I have a much greater problem with McCain. I could much more easily vote for Rudy than McCain.

[Lubbock]

Ditto voting Rudy over McCain.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

No. It's because I think Rudy would win, ...

I don't know if Rudy would beat Hillary or not, but IF he was forced upon us (as he is being now, pounded in our ears by media and Conservative ship-jumpers that he is the last, best hope of the GOP) and then he won, then I agree with this:

... and to me he's just another version of Hillary. It also will send a message to the Republican Party that it's not only okay to run RINOs for POTUS, but that it's the best thing to do. In the end, we'll just have choices between different versions of liberals. Conservatives will no longer be a choice.

With this I agree absolutley and completely 100%.

[UnkHiram]

Let me state for the record I do NOT support Rudy. He is at least in my opion a liberal. A lousy record on Abortion, Gun Control and Immigration. My personl first choice is Duncan Hunter, then Tom Tancredo. HOWEVER, If Rudy wins the Nomination come Nov of 08 I will vote against Hillary, Obama or Edwards. The only way to ensure that these three that we all KNOW will strengthen Roe V Wade, We KNOW support Gun Control and we KNOW favor amnesty for illegal immigraion is to vote for the Republican Nominee. There are only Two candidates that I would NOT under any circumstance vote for, Ron Paul and John McCain. IF either of those two were nominated I would skip the Presidential election and only vote for the offices.

Voting for Rudy/Fred/Mitt might not Stop Abortion on Demand BUT allowing Hillary/OBama/Edwards to be president (and thus appoint Supreme Court Judges) would Guarantee Abortion on Demand for at least another Generation. Personally I could not live with that, Can You?

[CzechPrince]

I really don't think Hillary can win the presidency.

Oh I think she can, certainly. And I have a digging in my gut that she will.

[Rhino]

So, you would rather have Hillary win by beating a (presently weaker) conservative 'pub candidate (say, Thompson, McCain or Romney) so the message to conservatives is preserved?I don't think she'd win, and I don't consider Thompson to be a weaker conservative candidate. I think he's the only conservative running.

Just a question, Rhino: Do you view Hillary as just another 'rat with the usual (misguided) 'rat agenda?Yes and no. She is like all before her in a lot of ways, but she has her own ideas that do truly scare me. Then again, so does Rudy, though not so many of them. I worry about the future beyond this election. If the party gets the message that it's okay, or even desireable, to nominate RINOs, then we lose either way. It might take a little longer, but the end result will be the same. The Republican Party is becoming more and more liberal, and that scares the pants off me. For the future, I think the conservative message is stronger, and more important, than simply this one election.

[Rhino]

Thats a hard one to swallow Rhino. Even if we as a society are in decline, it isn't Rudy to blame, it is the people...

...But Rudy isn't the enemy.....I'm not blaming Rudy, nor do I consider him the enemy. I've said that before. It's the watering down of conservative principles within our own party that bothers me.

[Lazarus]

...It also will send a message to the Republican Party that it's not only okay to run RINOs for POTUS...Well let's all keep this in perspective... If we suspected the Republican Party power-brokers were in fact trying to foist a RINO on us and were actively sabotaging the campaign of the conservative alternative, then we could in fact level such a threat against the Republican Party...

In fact, in this Primary season I see no evidence of such activity... And thus, the ultimate choice for the Republican nominee will be the result of the will of those voters who choose to vote in the Republican Primary election - THAT is US...

What I'm saying is, WE THE PEOPLE will be choosing that nominee, not some shadey committee in a dark smokey room... I admit that I have made the same accusatory threat, but in fact the truth is that the people's will will be reflected in this choice...

If we want Conservatives to be the power in this party, the Conservatives are going to have to send some leadership with the courage to make our principles and standards known... Reagan did that almost single-handedly... His courage drew the likes of Newt Gingrich, Tom DeLay, and that whole generation, out of the shadows...

We have RINOs dominating the party today because the Conservatives sat back on their laurels... Freedom is a principle that must be maintained and defended everyday...

If WE are going to be the standard for the Republican Party, WE have to wrest power away from the strangling vines that the RINOs are... They are Kudzu - Every year we have to keep them cut back or they will take over...

We can't blame this ethereal entity known as the Republican Party for sending RINOs to represent us... The people will follow strong leadership - If RINOs take over, the fault lies with us...

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Does anyone doubt the veracity of a claim that the media manipulates perception? Does anyone doubt that the candidates AND the GOP have their own "spin machines" frantically spinning their candidates/party's yarn? We've gone long past the power of a Word and a Handshake. The Truth may be out there, but Trust is nonexistent, which makes reaching the truth practically an impossibility.

Perhaps I'm just feeling especially pessimistic and discouraged lately, but I'm sorry, I absolutely feel "we the people" are being manipulated and herded down the liberal path of destruction. When people are continually faced with "lesser-of-two-evils" decisions, it no LONGER is about RIGHT and wrong. People can shake and quake in their boots about Hillary all they want, but if we are faced with the same type of horrendous actions by another moderate-to-liberal-in-Conservative-Republican clothing (as we've had for the past 2 terms), well, either way that snowball's just gonna keep rolling with practically impossible odds at stopping it and turning it around.

Rudy is not a Conservative, he's barely a Republican, and he is not THE Candidate who should be representing Conservative Republicans. It will not be THIS ONE of "we the people" who will be responsible for putting him up on that pedestal. And IF he gets the nomination, I don't know yet whether I can contain the bile in my stomach long enough to cast a begrudging, under-protest vote for him or not. That will definitely have to be a matter of prayer.

[The_Elucidator]

Perhaps I'm just feeling especially pessimistic and discouraged lately, but I'm sorry, I absolutely feel "we the people" are being manipulated and herded down the liberal path of destruction.


Sis, I know exactly how you feel. If we ever wanted to empathize with someone who suffers bipolar just spend the day in the life of a conservative waiting for the '08 election! There have been so many up's and downs; so many options thrown before us. Sometimes we can handle them, sometimes we feel like the whole world is going to hell. One day your candidate is on top of the world the next day the media is on him like a Pit Bull on a little kitten. We are all feeling like we have been through an emotional beat down, and we are still 1 year out!!! That's freakin' scary!

I think we can only do what is truly in our hearts. This will require much praying and at least on my part, fasting also.

On a side bar - my wife and I are planning a 3 day round the clock prayer group at our house on the Sun through Elect Tues with a come and go as you please policy. It will finish up with watching the election returns on Tues night for whoever wants to attend. Just a suggestion out there for folks that feel this is a turning point in this great Nation's history. The power of prayer can move mountains!!!

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Sis, I know exactly how you feel. If we ever wanted to empathize with someone who suffers bipolar just spend the day in the life of a conservative waiting for the '08 election! There have been so many up's and downs; so many options thrown before us. Sometimes we can handle them, sometimes we feel like the whole world is going to hell. One day your candidate is on top of the world the next day the media is on him like a Pit Bull on a little kitten. We are all feeling like we have been through an emotional beat down, and we are still 1 year out!!! That's freakin' scary!

I think we can only do what is truly in our hearts. This will require much praying and at least on my part, fasting also.

On a side bar - my wife and I are planning a 3 day round the clock prayer group at our house on the Sun through Elect Tues with a come and go as you please policy. It will finish up with watching the election returns on Tues night for whoever wants to attend. Just a suggestion out there for folks that feel this is a turning point in this great Nation's history. The power of prayer can move mountains!!!

Thank you brother, thank you for those words. They are just what I needed today. http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/images/icons/Crying00.gif

We are such weak creatures, with the power at our fingertips and bended knee, and yet still we struggle believing WE are in control. Your idea is a great one -- wish we lived closer, our family would most definitely participate in your prayer vigil. We do not have a fellowship home right now, and it's been especially tough traveling life's path in our neck o'the woods lately.

For me, it's simply this, I have reached my level of tolerance, I am standing behind the line, there is no more compromise available, lest I compromise convictions. We are most assuredly on a precipice. (Images of the scene from Indiana Jones & the Last Crusade come to mind ... remember when he had to take the "leap of faith"?)

[Rhino]

In fact, in this Primary season I see no evidence of such activity... And thus, the ultimate choice for the Republican nominee will be the result of the will of those voters who choose to vote in the Republican Primary election - THAT is US...Only 32 states choose delegates strictly by the primary system, so all of the people do not get an input. 14 states use caucuses, which are generally attended only by party 'elite'. Plus, the 'swing' voters who usually decide elections usually do not participate much in primaries.

http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/primaries/republicanprimaries/index.html

[Maggie_T]

Guys, you all make good points. But please think carefully about this. Please.

Rudy is a liberal on social issues. Check.

Electing him might send the wrong message to the GOP. Check.

Voting for Rudy/Fred/Mitt might not Stop Abortion on Demand BUT allowing Hillary/OBama/Edwards to be president (and thus appoint Supreme Court Judges) would Guarantee Abortion on Demand for at least another Generation.--Unkhiram.

MEGA CHECK.

I know who you all feel (Sis, I hear you), but nobody, NOBODY, can be worse than Hillary (or, on a less scary level, any of the other communist clowns in the dem ticket). Not even Rudy, with his liberalism on social issues.

And that's another MEGA CHECK.

[The_Elucidator]

Thank you brother, thank you for those words. They are just what I needed today. http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/images/icons/Crying00.gif

We are such weak creatures, with the power at our fingertips and bended knee, and yet still we struggle believing WE are in control. Your idea is a great one -- wish we lived closer, our family would most definitely participate in your prayer vigil. We do not have a fellowship home right now, and it's been especially tough traveling life's path in our neck o'the woods lately.

For me, it's simply this, I have reached my level of tolerance, I am standing behind the line, there is no more compromise available, lest I compromise convictions. We are most assuredly on a precipice. (Images of the scene from Indiana Jones & the Last Crusade come to mind ... remember when he had to take the "leap of faith"?)

I know exactly what you mean when you say you have reached your level of tolerance. On one hand I see how we managed to throw away a golden opportunity that was achieved in '94. And on the other hand I watched for 8 years as the Clintons ran roughshod over the morals of this country with the countless scandals and incredibly bad SCOTUS appointments in Ginsburg and Breyer. So I have reached my boiling points on two different pots of water! At this point it just so happens that my Clinton pot of water (the blue pot with the stain on it) is boiling rapidly while my frustration with the GOP pot (Made in Mexico) is at 211 degrees.

My biggest fear with the '08 election is apathy. We have some really good conservative men and women running for both houses that will desperately need our help next fall. By being so turned off by the POTUS candidate, my fear is that the 'Rats will once again be a majority in both houses by razor thin margins that could have been easily overcome.

Much can happen in the next 2 months leading up to the Primaries so lets pray that the people of this great country choose wisely, to quote your Indiana Jones movie.. :biggrin:

[Naturalized-Texan]

HOWEVER, If Rudy wins the Nomination come Nov of 08 I will vote against Hillary, Obama or Edwards. The only way to ensure that these three that we all KNOW will strengthen Roe V Wade, We KNOW support Gun Control and we KNOW favor amnesty for illegal immigraion is to vote for the Republican Nominee. There are only Two candidates that I would NOT under any circumstance vote for, Ron Paul and John McCain. IF either of those two were nominated I would skip the Presidential election and only vote for the offices.
I agree completely.

Voting for Rudy/Fred/Mitt might not Stop Abortion on Demand BUT allowing Hillary/OBama/Edwards to be president (and thus appoint Supreme Court Judges) would Guarantee Abortion on Demand for at least another Generation. Personally I could not live with that, Can You?
Absolutely! In addition, for the future of this great nation, we can't afford to let Hitlery become commander-in-chief in a time of war.

[Rhino]

I know who you all feel (Sis, I hear you), but nobody, NOBODY, can be worse than Hillary (or, on a less scary level, any of the other communist clowns in the dem ticket). Not even Rudy, with his liberalism on social issues.

And that's another MEGA CHECK.What is more scary to me is that we will probably never again have a true conservative candidate to vote for, and eventually "worse than Hillary" would be the norm for both parties (assuming they don't just simply merge, since they won't be all that different). Then it won't matter a bit who won this particular election. I'm looking beyond this particular election. I have no interest in winning the battle if it loses us the war.

Checkmate.

[Lazarus]

Guys, you all make good points. But please think carefully about this. Please.

Rudy is a liberal on social issues. Check.

Electing him might send the wrong message to the GOP. Check.

Voting for Rudy/Fred/Mitt might not Stop Abortion on Demand BUT allowing Hillary/OBama/Edwards to be president (and thus appoint Supreme Court Judges) would Guarantee Abortion on Demand for at least another Generation.--Unkhiram.

MEGA CHECK.

I know who you all feel (Sis, I hear you), but nobody, NOBODY, can be worse than Hillary (or, on a less scary level, any of the other communist clowns in the dem ticket). Not even Rudy, with his liberalism on social issues.

And that's another MEGA CHECK.Thank you for saying that, Dear... I just typed a long answer along those lines, but the more I typed, the more exhausted I became because I felt like I was trying to convince people who were already mixing up the poison kool-aide...

Friends, we are NOT going to turn America back to a glorious Conservative Utopia in this one election... Even if we manage to put Fred Thompson in the oval office, at best all we can hope for is to turn a couple of issues and hold the line on most of the others... We still will not be able to stop every single political issue from advancing toward the Left... It doesn't happen in one magic moment...

Am I warm-fuzzy-comfy with the idea of Rudy being our nominee - HELL NO! If all the candidates were on an equal atanding and there were no frontrunners, Rudy would be WAYYYYY down on my list... I have some serious concerns over some key issues with him.... But we can't live in a dream world - We must deal with the reality we are faced with today...

As much as I want Fred Thompson to be our nominee, I know I must be mentally prepared with a PLAN B... That Plan B might be a our best defensive move - Not every battle can be fought on the offense... Sometimes you have to make your best effort to HOLD THE LINE till you can rally your strength... This may be our political Alamo - We might be simply faced with holding the line for a better chance of counterattacking on a future day...

A Whitehouse under Giuliani is going to deal us SOME disappointments, I have no doubt about that... But a Federal government where the Dems control both Houses of Congress and The Whitehouse is the end of the United States we grew up in... THE END...

These are not the Democrats of old - The old gang who pandered to organized labor and minorities... Those old con artists are gone - We are looking at the most viscious mad-dogs that Marxism ever produced... Has everyone forgotten the pure bitter hatred and rage these animals have spewed out over the last 7 years? Are you prepared to live in a world that is dominated by the likes of Rosie O'Donnel, Cindy Sheehan, and Al Franken?

That is the War we are fighting... That is the war we lose if we don't stop the Dems from taking the Whitehouse...

[BuckeyeMike]

The way I see it right now, excluding Fred Thompson, the rest of the GOP candidates are just a smidgen better than THE BITCH occupying the Oval Office. This being the case, THE BITCH has been put forth by the Democrat Party as a straw dog. They KNOW she has shit chance of winning, and if the RINO wins, its a win for the Dems.....if by some miraculous twist of misfortune THE BITCH does pull it off.....another win for the Dems....
WIN-WIN for the RATs now matter how you look at it. And I'm not averse to saying or thinking that this is exactly by design by your Federal Government. And keep you tin hats to yourself!

[Rhino]

A Whitehouse under Giuliani is going to deal us SOME disappointments, I have no doubt about that... But a Federal government where the Dems control both Houses of Congress and The Whitehouse is the end of the United States we grew up in... THE END...A Whitehouse under Giuliani could very well gut our second amendment, and that could very well spell THE END too. None of our other rights are worth a damn without that one. Even with his other faults, I'd probably be willing to vote for Rudy if he weren't in favor of gun control.

[Lazarus]

A Whitehouse under Giuliani could very well gut our second amendment, and that could very well spell THE END too. None of our other rights are worth a damn without that one. Even with his other faults, I'd probably be willing to vote for Rudy if he weren't in favor of gun control.Im with you there, Bro... To that I recall that Rudy recently tried to soothe concerns along those lines when he addressed the NRA...

NO, I am not so naiive to believe a politician during a campaign... But at least it shows me that he is aware that this is a hurdle he has to jump to have our support...

He did admit that those lawsuits he was involved in went way out of control and proceded to a point he never intended for them to go... I would like to ask him just exactly WHERE did he expect them to go and how does he stand on the plain and simple issue of the 2nd Amendment...