Saudis Say Punishment of Rape Victim Justified

[DoctorDoom]

The Saudi government, reacting to international indignation about the punishment meted out to a young gang rape victim, has issued a statement defending the court decision.

The "charges were proven" against the 19-year-old woman, who was sitting in a car with an unrelated male shortly before the assault occurred, the Justice Ministry said in the statement released by the Sunni kingdom's official Saudi Press Agency Tuesday.

"The woman and her companion were sentenced chastisingly to whipping since some of the charges against them were proven," it said, adding that both had "contently accepted" the verdict.

The Shi'ite woman, who has not been named, was initially sentenced to 90 lashes after being convicted under a law that forbids non-related men and women to meet in private.Saudis Say Punishment of Rape Victim Justified (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=/ForeignBureaus/archive/200711/INT20071121a.html)

And Islam continues to prove that it's a nightmarish cult born in the bowels of hell. The evidence of its inherent evil piles up into Everest-sized mountains. Would anyone care to tell us why it should be considered a legitimate religion?

[Wolfcounsel]

I don't mind at all having a debate with Bush about his "religion of peace" if he doesn't mind too terribly about me "kicking" his ass with the truth. Any Islam defenders out there want to chime in?

[DesertFox]

I think they all stuffin' they moufs wid turkey'n giblet graby.

[Aaron]

I disagree with American laws which allow for the execution of human beings (I don't really, it's just an example). Just because you disagree with the law of their land doesn't mean it is wrong. In fact, in my opinion, there are facets of Saudi law that I would like to see adopted by this country. Example:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/827723.html (Saudi Arabia executes 4 Sri Lankans for armed robbery)

Imagine the effect that the above would have on armed robberies in the Uk or the US? If you knew that by commiting THIS CRIME you would get THAT PUNSIHMENT, would you still go ahead? It kinda makes people think 'is it worth it'.

Rehabilitation does not work. The justice system in our nation is a ****ing joke. Criminals go to prison to learn to be better criminals. Execution is a MUCH sterner sentence and would PREVENT the crime in the first place.

In all cases, prevention is better than cure. Why should my/our tax dollars be spent on food shelter and clothing for people who give nothing to society? Better to discourage the criminal than try to cure them.

Oh yeah, before anyone accuses me of it, I think the persecutiong of the rape victim is horrible, and Saudi Arabia law is ****ed up because of it. Religion of peace my ass. But I like their hardline stance on criminals.

[PrezLeefun]

^^^^ Aaron that comparison is poor at best. Sorry but it is. They are legally punishing victims based on religion. WRONG WRONG WRONG. Its NOT ok, its NOT justified, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. You can't compare that atrocity to cops and robbers. It doesn't work.

[Nutrider99]

Just because you disagree with the law of their land doesn't mean it is wrong.
Nice subjective morality there.
Imagine the effect that the above would have on armed robberies in the Uk or the US?
I have no problem with letting the punishment fit the crime. Killing killers is perfectly acceptable. Sentance armed robbbers to long sentances on chian gangs fo rthe first offence, and remove them if there is ever a second.
If you knew that by commiting THIS CRIME you would get THAT PUNSIHMENT, would you still go ahead?
You mean the crime of a girl sitting in a car with a guy? Yes, that's a heinous offense.

[Kathy30]

The laws of middle eastern countries are fine. In that country. If the people didn't accept those laws and prefer them, they would never have come to be. I might think that whipping is wrong. I might think that whipping for a woman whose crime is sitting in a car with an unrelated man is wrong, even if that man is her rapist. That does not give me moral authority to impose my beliefs on a whole other people in their own country. It's hard for us to grasp but the people want it this way. They like it.

What I have the biggest beef with is the ideal THEY have of imposing THEIR laws on our country. Give muslims enough immigration and it's going to be your daughters under their whip. That's what I have a gripe with.

[Aaron]

Nice subjective morality there.

I have no problem with letting the punishment fit the crime. Killing killers is perfectly acceptable. Sentance armed rboobers to long sentances on chian gangs fo rthe first offence, and remove them if there is ever a second.

You mean the crime of a girl sitting in a car with a guy? Yes, that's a heinous offense.

Nice of you to not quote everything I said. I said the punishment for the 'crime' was horrible and wrong. But I don't think all their legal system is messed up.

If anything, I wish we would adapt something similar to Singapore, where people get their hands cut off for stealing, their bits and pieces cut off for rape, etc.

I'm sorry, but I am SICK AND TIRED of seeing pedophiles go to jail for ten years. I am sick and tired of all the money we as tax payers hand out to prisons so they can feed their hardline criminals, many of whom are repeat offenders who will NEVER be rehabilitated. Yeah, Sharia law is ****ed up, and yeah the way they treat women is horrible and I strongly disagree with it. But looking into some of their laws, I think they are on to something, especially with thieves. At least treat them more harshly. If anyone thinks the system we have set up currently works, then you must be kidding yourselves.

[Kathy30]

This bowl is too hot!
This bowl is too cold!
This bowl is just right.

We just haven't figured out just right yet. Our system used to be much harsher. We are drifting towards a line of reasoning that crime is an exhibition of sociopathic behavior that can be cured. This is wrong because crime is far more than mere behavioral problems. Criminals aren't sick. This is the way they are. Most of them are so convinced of the correctness of their behavior that it is society that is sick not them. Sexual predators will never be cured. They will never stop committing sexual crimes until they are dead. Drug addicts are another grouping. They don't commit crimes at all. It is an arbitrary and capricious majority that is wrong by considering their behavior a crime. They are having fun, we are limiting their pursuit of happiness.

[Nutrider99]

Nice of you to not quote everything I said.
In the interests of brevity, I only quote that to which I wish to respond.
If anything, I wish we would adapt something similar to Singapore, where people get their hands cut off for stealing, their bits and pieces cut off for rape, etc.
So if I sell you my stereo then three of my friends and I say you stole it, you should get your hand removed? No, I don't think the laws of the 16th centuray hold any charm for me.
I'm sorry, but I am SICK AND TIRED of seeing pedophiles go to jail for ten years.
Agreed. If there is CONCLUSIVE proof of their guilt, put them in the general population and put a bounty on them.
I am sick and tired of all the money we as tax payers hand out to prisons so they can feed their hardline criminals, many of whom are repeat offenders
I like the Arizon Sherrif Joe Arpaio's (http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/06/sheriff-pink-underwear/) approach to the situation.
If anyone thinks the system we have set up currently works, then you must be kidding yourselves.
It doesn't, but that doesn't make the Saudi's any less barbaric.

[hellinon]

"So if I sell you my stereo then three of my friends and I say you stole it, you should get your hand removed? No, I don't think the laws of the 16th centuray hold any charm for me." -Nutrider

Im not sure about that argument. Because we change the punishments does not mean we change the court system. (Though admittadly, it needs some serious revamping. God i hate how internet edits my spelling for me now it makes me feel stupid.)

I really dont like the idea of castration, whipping, etc. People are still people. We are all in God's image, even if it is some black gang-banger that just raped his friend's sister. Let the barbarians do this to their citizens. I will be content with heavier sentences and a more aggressive prosecution in court.

[mkafrica]

Agreed. If there is CONCLUSIVE proof of their guilt, put them in the general population and put a bounty on them.

And no investigation as to the cause of their death...

[DoctorDoom]

Just because you disagree with the law of their land doesn't mean it is wrong.I see. And therefore, despite our biased opinions of their law, it was right when ...

Saudi Arabia's religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers.

In a rare criticism of the kingdom's powerful "mutaween" police, the Saudi media has accused them of hindering attempts to save 15 girls who died in the fire on Monday.

About 800 pupils were inside the school in the holy city of Mecca when the tragedy occurred.Saudi police 'stopped' fire rescue (http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/showthread.php?t=52970)

In fact, in my opinion, there are facets of Saudi law that I would like to see adopted by this country. Example:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/827723.html (Saudi Arabia executes 4 Sri Lankans for armed robbery)Not a problem. Ignore or justify the relentless jihad of the Muzzies against the infidels of the Dar al-Harb and you'll have the opportunity to live under that demonic religion as a Muzzie or a dhimmi.

Imagine the effect that the above would have on armed robberies in the Uk or the US? If you knew that by commiting THIS CRIME you would get THAT PUNSIHMENT, would you still go ahead? It kinda makes people think 'is it worth it'.There are already laws against armed robbery, but the common rationale of all criminals is that they won't be caught. Therefore the type of punishment for their crimes is irrelevant to to them.

Rehabilitation does not work. The justice system in our nation is a ****ing joke. Criminals go to prison to learn to be better criminals.Blame that on the bleeding-heart liberals who believe in "humane" prisons and being nice to scum.

Execution is a MUCH sterner sentence and would PREVENT the crime in the first place.Really? How many states have capital punishment as the consequence for first-degree murder, and yet it still occurs in those states. The reason is found two paragraphs up: the killers don't expect to be apprehended, and therefore the possibility of forfeiting their own lives is immaterial to them, other than as an incentive to kill any witnesses.

In all cases, prevention is better than cure.It would be if it worked, but by its nature, criminal law is reactive, not proactive. Since criminals by definition break the law, the penalties exacted for crimes are deterrents only to those who fear the power of the law.

Why should my/our tax dollars be spent on food shelter and clothing for people who give nothing to society?There's no argument there.

Better to discourage the criminal than try to cure them.Many ideas are good in theory but meaningless in practice. I've always been a strong advocate of capital punishment for crimes that merit it, e.g., murder 1, but I harbor no illusion that it deters those who are likely to commit that crime.

In most states, first-degree murder is defined as an unlawful killing that is both willful and premeditated, meaning that it was committed after planning or "lying in wait" for the victim.

[snip]

Most states also adhere to a legal concept known as the "felony murder rule," under which a person commits first-degree murder if any death (even an accidental one) results from the commission of certain violent felonies -- usually arson, burglary, kidnapping, rape, and robbery.Murder: First Degree (http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/murder_first_degree.html)

Those who commit capital crimes do so knowing very well what the law states if they are captured and found guilty of committing them. However, that type of people simply don't care. The process of execution is called the death PENALTY and capital PUNISHMENT because it is exacted after the fact as the prescribed consequence for the crime.

Oh yeah, before anyone accuses me of it, I think the persecutiong of the rape victim is horrible, and Saudi Arabia law is ****ed up because of it. Religion of peace my ass. But I like their hardline stance on criminals.Few here will argue against the enforcement of strong, impartial justice against criminals. The difference between our stance and yours is that we don't believe that the law has the slightest deterrent effect on those who are habitually lawless.

Of course, frying a son of a bitch for a capital crime will deter the felon from repeating it.

[UnkHiram]

14th Century Laws for a barbarric 14th Century Nation. The only decent thing to come out of Saudi in the last 500 years is their oil.

[Madbomber]

The thing I find funny is that you guys are horrified about the things muslims do and still think that they are going to change 500 miles to the north. Im telling ya these people are twisted and thats the way they like it. The best thing we could ever do would be to contain them and let them continue to kill themselves.

[Nutrider99]

The best thing we could ever do would be to contain them and let them continue to kill themselves.
What about if we exposed their false religion for what it is and brought freedom of speech to the Middle East? What if we converted those who follow the religion of the damned to Christianity? What if we were able to save a few in the process?

[Madbomber]

What about if we exposed their false religion for what it is and brought freedom of speech to the Middle East? What if we converted those who follow the religion of the damned to Christianity? What if we were able to save a few in the process?


Hey If you want to change them head on over and give it a go. Hopefully they wont hand you your head on a platter. Im satisfied with letting them kill each other.

The sort of change you are looking for comes from within. People almost never change becuase they are told they have to change. Its almost always something that they have to realize for themselves. And to be honest I dont think they have that in them. (The ones that do generally move out of the area)

MB

[Kathy30]

What about if we exposed their false religion for what it is and brought freedom of speech to the Middle East? What if we converted those who follow the religion of the damned to Christianity? What if we were able to save a few in the process?

You can't. They are equally as convinced, or more convinced that they are to expose YOUR false religion, bring freedom of Koranic speech to western countries where blasphemy is a death penalty offense and convert you all to islam. That's what they considering saving a few too.

[Wolfcounsel]

Have their country littered with pamphlets by a remote-controlled airplane. Include several copies of the Koran and label it Fluffy 2-Ply. Also include the latest cartoons of Mohammed, and for the piece de resistance, pictures of Allah screwing a camel. Have the plane crash near a large city, and make sure the Chinese or Russian emblem has magically transferred itself to the side of the plane.

Okay, back to the Saudi circus court.

[CzechPrince]

I don't mind at all having a debate with Bush about his "religion of peace" if he doesn't mind too terribly about me "kicking" his ass with the truth. Any Islam defenders out there want to chime in?

And sometimes I wonder why we didn't take out Saudi Arabia before Iraq.

[Sarah]

The saudis have proven to be animals. Why do business with them?

[Aaron]

I don't understand it either, but I think at this point in time we do not want to risk losing any of our allies. I know, it is not good to align ourselves with countries like this who treat their women like animals. But as long as we have them to our advantage to use as a political bargaining tool, then we can accomplish a little more in this unstable region of the world.

[TeenageRepublican]

I feel sorry for the chick. If it were up to me, the men would not only get hung in public, but castrated before. But they'll get their's...

[DoctorDoom]

You can't. They are equally as convinced, or more convinced that they are to expose YOUR false religion, bring freedom of Koranic speech to western countries where blasphemy is a death penalty offense and convert you all to islam. That's what they considering saving a few too.Islam has nothing to do with salvation. It's a demonic religion that demands absolute control over its slaves adherents, and requires death for anyone who will not convert or submit to it.

And unlike Christianity, Islam provides a powerful incentive for Muslims to remain "faithful":

Bukhari Hadith 4.260:
Narrated 'Ikrima:
'Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

I can't find in the Bible where Jesus commanded his followers to kill anyone who "discards" Christianity. Nor is there a parallel verse to the next one in the Hadith.

4.261:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
A group of eight men from the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk." Allah's Apostle said, "I recommend that you should join the herd of camels." So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died (Abu Qilaba, a sub-narrator said, "They committed murder and theft and fought against Allah and His Apostle, and spread evil in the land.")

Christians are motivated by love to spread the Gospel of Christ Jesus to the lost. Muslims are commanded to convert infidels to Islam, and to kill those who refuse.

[Rhino]

Report: Saudi King Pardons Teen Female Rape Victim Sentenced to 200 Lashes
Monday, December 17, 2007

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — A gang-rape victim who was sentenced to six months in prison and 200 lashes for being alone with a man not related to her was pardoned by the Saudi king after the case sparked rare criticism from the United States, the kingdom's top ally.

Outrage over the sentence prompted unusually strong comments from President Bush, who said that if the same thing had happened to one of his daughters, he would be "angry" at a government that didn't protect the victim. The White House called the sentence "outrageous."

In past weeks, Saudi officials have bristled at the criticism of what they consider an internal affair — but also appeared wary of hurting their image in the United States.

Bush's National Security Council spokesman Gordon Johndroe said the White House thinks Saudi King Abdullah "made the right decision" by pardoning the woman.

With the pardon, Abdullah appeared to be aiming at relieving the pressure from the United States without being seen to criticize Saudi Arabia's conservative legal system, a stronghold of powerful clerics adhering to the strict Wahhabi interpretation of Islam.

Justice Minister Abdullah bin Mohammed al-Sheik said the pardon reported Monday by Saudi media does not mean the king doubted the country's judges, but that he was acting in the "interests of the people."...http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317066,00.html

[Neil Peart]

Well, there might be some hope for those people after all.

But I'm not holding my breath.

[DoctorDoom]

How noble of them. No doubt she was sternly warned against being raped again, because the Saudis won't be so lenient next time.

Farking barbarians! They should be nuked back into the stone age.

[Sarah]

Well this is good news. That barbarians did something civilized for a change.

[Nutrider99]

Cheer up. One day we'll be in Heaven, where there will be no Muslims.