Ron Paul and the IRS

[Reagan Knight]

Just out of curiosity. Does anyone here think that abolishing the IRS is a bad idea?

I understand Paul has been demonized on this site, somewhat for good reason. However abolishing the IRS is actually a very good idea. I'll post more later, I'd like to see what others think.

[garlicguy]

No more IRS (and Homeland Security) might mean the end of terrorism from within.

[Madbomber]

Just out of curiosity. Does anyone here think that abolishing the IRS is a bad idea?

I understand Paul has been demonized on this site, somewhat for good reason. However abolishing the IRS is actually a very good idea. I'll post more later, I'd like to see what others think.


As long as it is coupled with a corrosponding cut in spending then there is no reason not to do it. Where to cut the spending though is where the problems come in. I personally believe that our foreign policy is the perfect place to start.... you can cut out a ton of fat there without ever affecting the first american.

[Naturalized-Texan]

I've been a long-time advocate of the Fair Tax (http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer) which would require the repeal of the 16th Amendment to prevent the resurrection of the income tax. The Fair Tax would render unnecessary the IRS leading to its elimination.

[garlicguy]

I've been a long-time advocate of the Fair Tax (http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer) which would require the repeal of the 16th Amendment to prevent the resurrection of the income tax. The Fair Tax would render unnecessary the IRS leading to its elimination.

Yaaaayyyy!:yeahthat:

Ooops... We inadvertently agreed with each other, Tex! :biggrin:

Keep up the good work! :claps:

[The_Elucidator]

Yaaaayyyy!:yeahthat:

Ooops... We inadvertently agreed with each other, Tex! :biggrin:

Keep up the good work! :claps:

Did anyone check to see if we are in the full moon stage??? :question:

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Just out of curiosity. Does anyone here think that abolishing the IRS is a bad idea?

Not me.

I understand Paul has been demonized on this site, somewhat for good reason. However abolishing the IRS is actually a very good idea. I'll post more later, I'd like to see what others think.

Abolishing the IRS IS a very good idea, but it's not unique to Ron Paul, and he had nothing to do with the FairTax idea (that would be John Linder and Neal Boortz, and a few others, I believe).

As long as the 16th Amendment is repealed (so we won't get strapped with both taxing systems) I see no reason not to abolish the IRS proper and replace it with an administration set-up to smoothly handle any internal governmental paperwork.

[Beowulf]

I support the abolition of the IRS. It's just a government funded organization that bullies people into poverty by forcing them to pay taxes they don't owe.

[TeenageRepublican]

Abolish the IRS?

That is the Libertarian side of my Conservative Libertarian views!

[gnome]

If federal taxes are collected by any means, won't there always be an "IRS" of some kind to organize its collection?

[jayson]

That is the Libertarian side of my Conservative Libertarian views!

No, it's any red-blooded American's view.

Truth of it is, America's expenditures in 2000 were less than the income tax brought in. Considering the fact that the income tax brings in approximately 50% of the federal government's income, you could see we could have (in 2000) gotten rid of the IRS and still had a ~50% surplus.

Now, as MB said, cut our current foreign policy and bring in a non-interventionist foreign policy, and start weening people off of Medicare/welfare, and you will see we are back to major surpluses without having to tax a single individual's income.

Pre-16th amendment, it was unconstitutional... now that it's an amendment, that still doesn't make it right. Especially regarding tax courts where you are guilty until proven innocent, which is exactly opposite how the American judicial system is supposed to work.

Moreover, the very idea of an IRS means that the government owns you. When you think about it, the government can legally take 1% of your money just as much as 100%, because the income tax implies that whatever you produce (monetary-wise), is the property of the US government. It will take what it wants and then give you the leftovers. That is staunchly anti-American.

The IRS is not and never was up to any good. It's time we cut it out and started being free people again.

[Reagan Knight]

If federal taxes are collected by any means, won't there always be an "IRS" of some kind to organize its collection?

Since the Constitution does give Congress the power to tax, there will always be some organization to collect these federal taxes. It just doesn't have to be the IRS as it is now. For example, if the choice is to replace income tax with a federal sales tax (that does not include the taxing of anything rendered to be a necessity, meaning food, clothing etc.), then there will an agency to collect it and what not. However, it won't be anywhere as large or complex as the IRS.

[garlicguy]

Did anyone check to see if we are in the full moon stage??? :question:

Egads! Or worse - could it be the dawning of the Age of Aquarius? :unsmile:

[THEBIRD]

Abolish the IRS....and the BATF, NSA, FDA, and I could probably think of a few others....given time

[Naturalized-Texan]

Abolish the IRS....and the BATF, NSA, FDA, and I could probably think of a few others....given time
The NSA is absolutely necessary for the defense of our country, so it is constitutional and it MUST be kept.

A couple of years ago I posted here a list of unconstitutional federal departments and agencies that should be eliminated and it included to about two-thirds of the federal government. I can remember a few of them:

Dept of Education
Dept of Energy
Dept of Agriculture
Dept of Transportation
Dept of Health and Human Services
Dept of Housing and Urban Development
EPA
National Endowment for the Arts
National Endowment for the Humanities

There are others, but you get the point.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

A couple of years ago I posted here a list of unconstitutional federal departments and agencies that should be eliminated and it included to about two-thirds of the federal government. I can remember a few of them:

Dept of Education
Dept of Energy
Dept of Agriculture
Dept of Transportation
Dept of Health and Human Services
Dept of Housing and Urban Development
EPA
National Endowment for the Arts
National Endowment for the Humanities

There are others, but you get the point.

I ABSOLUTELY and whole-heartedly agree! :thumb:

[Sarah]

Just out of curiosity. Does anyone here think that abolishing the IRS is a bad idea?

I understand Paul has been demonized on this site, somewhat for good reason. However abolishing the IRS is actually a very good idea. I'll post more later, I'd like to see what others think.
Abolishing the IRS is the best idea I've heard from anybody running for president.
The IRS is the modern day equivalent to the gestapo.

[THEBIRD]

Ok, keep the NSA....but more congressional oversight....to the point of absurdity. They have become power-hungry and its the general attitude there that they answer to nobody.....just like the rest of the agencies you listed.

Reign them in.

[Naturalized-Texan]

Ok, keep the NSA....but more congressional oversight....to the point of absurdity. They have become power-hungry and its the general attitude there that they answer to nobody.....just like the rest of the agencies you listed.

Reign them in.
The NSA is already under too much congressional oversight. The NSA should be given more leeway to conduct warrantless surveillance of enemy communications.

[THEBIRD]

The NSA should be given more leeway to conduct warrantless surveillance of enemy communications.

Or under clinton or Rudy, surveillance over 2nd Amendment enthusiasts or folks who think we should abolish the IRS.

No thanks. Damn, they reprogrammed you good didn't they?

[Sarah]

Not only should the IRS be abolished but every single employee of the IRS should be rounded up and put into prison for extortion.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7418/irsvi0.jpg

[THEBIRD]

Not only should the IRS be abolished but every single employee of the IRS should be rounded up and put into prison for extortion.




:question:

See Sarah, that is the kind of talk that is going to get the NSA to tap your phone just in case you and your "ban the IRS" friends start planning on getting organized and encouraging your way of thinking among others.

Watch out....folks like Texan who have swallowed every spoonful of GOP goodness will turn you in and not think twice.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r69/thebirdbath/one.jpg

[Sarah]

:question:

See Sarah, that is the kind of talk that is going to get the NSA to tap your phone just in case you and your "ban the IRS" friends start planning on getting organized and encouraging your way of thinking among others.

Watch out....folks like Texan who have swallowed every spoonful of GOP goodness will turn you in and not think twice.


They can tap my phone all they want. I'm sure they will love the convos I have with my mother-in-law about recipes and neighborhood gossip. :p

[THEBIRD]

Yeah that answer of "let them tap my phone because I have nothing to hide" is not the point. Its constitutionally illegal and any president who would grant that power belongs behind bars.

[jayson]

Not only should the IRS be abolished but every single employee of the IRS should be rounded up and put into prison for extortion.

It's funny that you mention that... When manning the Ron Paul booth at our local farmers market, I once had a guy come up and ask me what would happen to all the IRS employees if we shut down the IRS. He said we couldn't "just throw them out in the cold".

Now THAT is bleeding heart liberalism.

[jayson]

They can tap my phone all they want. I'm sure they will love the convos I have with my mother-in-law about recipes and neighborhood gossip.

"I have nothing to hide," today, could easily turn into, "I didn't know THAT was illegal," tomorrow.

[Sarah]

It's funny that you mention that... When manning the Ron Paul booth at our local farmers market, I once had a guy come up and ask me what would happen to all the IRS employees if we shut down the IRS. He said we couldn't "just throw them out in the cold".

Now THAT is bleeding heart liberalism.
They all should be put in gitmo.

[Naturalized-Texan]

Or under clinton or Rudy, surveillance over 2nd Amendment enthusiasts or folks who think we should abolish the IRS.
Nonsense. The NSA can only conduct surveillance on communications to or from terrorists on foreign soil.

As I said before, you are delusional.

[Naturalized-Texan]

See Sarah, that is the kind of talk that is going to get the NSA to tap your phone just in case you and your "ban the IRS" friends start planning on getting organized and encouraging your way of thinking among others.
:bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag:

[garlicguy]

Yo there, Tex!

http://bestsmileys.com/mooners/2.gif

[Sarah]

Yeah that answer of "let them tap my phone because I have nothing to hide" is not the point. Its constitutionally illegal and any president who would grant that power belongs behind bars.
I don't believe they are tapping "my" phone anyways. it sure would be a complete waste of resources if they were.

[THEBIRD]

Hey Garlic, try to refrain from the childish antics. Name calling is one thing.....but...

Anyway, I don't believe for a second the ONE agency that is playing by the rules is the NSA. Are you serious? They're all drunk with power.

Yes Sarah.....put em in Gitmo.

[Naturalized-Texan]

Anyway, I don't believe for a second the ONE agency that is playing by the rules is the NSA. Are you serious? They're all drunk with power.
You keep proving that you are delusional. Oh, well. It takes all kinds. Maybe some day you'll join us in the real world.

[Naturalized-Texan]

gg: I didn't realize you had such a fat ass.

[THEBIRD]

You keep proving that you are delusional. Oh, well. It takes all kinds. Maybe some day you'll join us in the real world.

So you're telling me and everyone on this website that while you believe the
Dept of Education
Dept of Energy
Dept of Agriculture
Dept of Transportation
Dept of Health and Human Services
Dept of Housing and Urban Development
EPA

are all unconstitutionally wasting resources and probably corrupt beyond measure....you somehow think that the NSA is not and is walking the line on the amount of power it posses. Bullshit. C'mon. You think the founders would buy that crap?

I know you don't believe it.

[Naturalized-Texan]

So you're telling me and everyone on this website that while you believe the
Dept of Education
Dept of Energy
Dept of Agriculture
Dept of Transportation
Dept of Health and Human Services
Dept of Housing and Urban Development
EPA

are all unconstitutionally wasting resources and probably corrupt beyond measure....you somehow think that the NSA is not and is walking the line on the amount of power it posses. Bullshit. C'mon. You think the founders would buy that crap?
You need to talk to Rhino about NSA. He actually worked there and knows a helluva lot more about it than you do. Most of what I posted about the NSA is what I learned from Rhino. In addition, the FISA Court of Review has ruled that the warrantless surveillance of enemy communications conducted by NSA is Constitutional (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Y2FjZTQzNjUzOTUzMzgwODQ3ZjEyNWE5OWJmYTU4ZTA=).

[garlicguy]

gg: I didn't realize you had such a fat ass.

I didn't realize you'd notice. You should'a' seen it before the liposuction.

Whew, Baby!! :biggrin: