Auto Shut Off with Win98 SE

[CaliGirl]

I have:

Win98 SE
Office 2000 [SBE]

Is there a way to auto shut off computer? Before I upgraded to Win98 SE, I was able to have the auto shut off with Win98.

[DoctorDoom]

Are you referring to a total power-down automatically? I've never seen that one. If you're referring to going into some sort of standby mode:

Start > Settings > Control Panel > Power Options (or whatever 98SE calls it)

You can set various modes in there.

[CaliGirl]

[ QUOTE ]
DoctorDoom said:
Are you referring to a total power-down automatically? I've never seen that one. If you're referring to going into some sort of standby mode:

Start > Settings > Control Panel > Power Options (or whatever 98SE calls it)

You can set various modes in there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am referring to a total power-down automatically. I was able to do it with Win98.

[DoctorDoom]

That's a new one on me, unless it's being done by a UPS, which requires software.

[CaliGirl]

[ QUOTE ]
DoctorDoom said:

That's a new one on me, unless it's being done by a UPS, which requires software.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you mean by UPS. I am thinking UPS meaning United Postal Service. http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rotflmbo.gif

Are you saying you did not know it was possible with Win98? http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea1.gif

[DoctorDoom]

UPS - Uninterruptible Power Supply aka battery backup. The more expensive ones can interface with the computer and initiate an orderly shutdown if the line power dies.

As for a built-in auto-shutdown in 98, I never heard of it. There are software utilities that do it, but I can't find anything on the Web about it being built into 98.

[CaliGirl]

[ QUOTE ]
DoctorDoom said:
UPS - Uninterruptible Power Supply aka battery backup. The more expensive ones can interface with the computer and initiate an orderly shutdown if the line power dies.

As for a built-in auto-shutdown in 98, I never heard of it. There are software utilities that do it, but I can't find anything on the Web about it being built into 98.

[/ QUOTE ]

CaliBoy had it working on Win98. Hmmm....wondering what is going on with Win98 SE?

[DoctorDoom]

Does he recall how he did it with 98FE? It would give a starting point.

[dajoga]

Cali--I run 98 SE on both my laptop and desktop and they both shut down auto.

Here's how it works for me--
Click on "Start" in lower LH corner which opens a menu
Click on "Shut down" which opens the "shutdown" window
Shut down window has 4 choices: select "Shut Down" and click OK

I don't know if this is what you're looking for or not.

[Rhino]

What you may be experiencing is a known bug with Win 98SE that often prevents it from shutting down completely when clicking Start-Shut Down-Shut Down. To add insult to injury, the next reboot will often enter Scandisk and arrogantly inform you that it would not have been necessary if you had shut down correctly. Yeah, right ***hole! Microsoft (the ***holes responsible) has issued a supplement (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;239887) to address this problem, but be forewarned that it does not always work. If this is not your problem, make sure your ACPI interface is enabled in the BIOS and set correctly under the Power option in Control Panel. ACPI is what enables the operating system to turn the power off after the O/S shuts down.

[dajoga]

Rhino--I went to "power management" on CP and opened it. Didn't find ACPI like you said, but found this:

First box: Power Schemes: 3 options
-Always on
-Home/office desk
-Portable/laptop

"Always on" is the selected setting, but should I go to Home/office desk?

Second box: Settings for always on power scheme
--Never (current setting) or
--options from "after 1 minute" to "after 5 hours"

Third box:
--Turn off monitor after "2 hours" (current setting) or options from 1 minute-5hours

Fourth box:
--Turn off hard disks after "2 hrs" (current setting) or options from 3 min-5hrs.

So, should I leave them alone or make changes?

If this isn't the ACPI you mentioned, what else could it be under in the CP?

Also, sometimes I can be inactive at my computer for a couple of hours and my internet connection is still active, and other times (it just happened while typing this post) my internet connection will disconnect while I'm actively using the internet. Any ideas why?

[Rhino]

My mistake. I don't believe 98 has ACPI settings in Control Panel. In some of the operating systems you can select what actions the 'puter does when selecting shutdown, pressing the reset button, etc. The BIOS is where ACPI will certainly be. However, have you changed BIOS settings or PCs prior to this problem occuring? If not, then the BIOS is not the likely cause. When you tell the PC to shut down, does the computer hang on the 'Windows is shutting down' screen? Or do you get the old 'It's OK to turn your computer off now' message? If you get the former, you should try that 98SE supplement I mentioned. If you get the latter, your ACPI settings in the BIOS should be checked. Unfortunately, BIOS menus can vary quite a bit, so I can't give you definite instructions on where to look. Anything that mentions power or power management is a good bet though. If you get something completely different from the above scenarios, you better explain it, cause you could be in uncharted territory.

[Rhino]

dgauw, the settings you mention are really a personal preference. Your monitor consumes the most power, so that is where the best power savings can be achieved. I hate waiting for the damn thing to warm back up though, so I move that setting out to four or five hours, or even disable it completely (always on). I never turn my drives off because if I'm going to do that I might as well be shutting the system down. Like I said, what settings you use are your preference. Don't use laptop settings with a desktop though. It won't hurt but it can get confusing.

Your internet connection going down is likely your ISP. Many will automatically terminate your connection if you don't have activity for 15 minutes or so. I just leave my e-mail client up because it is set to check for new mail every ten minutes. That keeps my ISP from cutting me off. Might work for you too.

[CaliGirl]

DoctorDoom said:

[ QUOTE ]
Does he recall how he did it with 98FE? It would give a starting point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Win98FE came with auto shut off.

dgauw said:

[ QUOTE ]
Cali--I run 98 SE on both my laptop and desktop and they both shut down auto.

Here's how it works for me--
Click on "Start" in lower LH corner which opens a menu
Click on "Shut down" which opens the "shutdown" window
Shut down window has 4 choices: select "Shut Down" and click OK

I don't know if this is what you're looking for or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, that is not what I am looking for. After I would pick 'Shut Down' on Win98FE, it would automatically turn off my comptuer. A screen comes up telling me it's OK to turn of the computer now.

Rhino said:

[ QUOTE ]
My mistake. I don't believe 98 has ACPI settings in Control Panel. In some of the operating systems you can select what actions the 'puter does when selecting shutdown, pressing the reset button, etc. The BIOS is where ACPI will certainly be. However, have you changed BIOS settings or PCs prior to this problem occuring? If not, then the BIOS is not the likely cause. When you tell the PC to shut down, does the computer hang on the 'Windows is shutting down' screen? Or do you get the old 'It's OK to turn your computer off now' message? If you get the former, you should try that 98SE supplement I mentioned. If you get the latter, your ACPI settings in the BIOS should be checked. Unfortunately, BIOS menus can vary quite a bit, so I can't give you definite instructions on where to look. Anything that mentions power or power management is a good bet though. If you get something completely different from the above scenarios, you better explain it, cause you could be in uncharted territory.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am going to print out all of your replies for CaliBoy so he can read what everyone wrote.

Thanks everyone. http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon16.gif

[DoctorDoom]

Post moved to follow Cali's last post.

I was interpreting "automatically" to mean an unattended shutdown without human intervention. If you were referring to shutting down via the Start > Shutdown route, then I stand corrected.

98 has a "feature" called "fast shutdown" that is noted for hanging up the shutdown sequence.

[ QUOTE ]
How to Disable Fast Shutdown in Windows 98

The information in this article applies to:

Microsoft Windows 98

This article was previously published under Q187607

SUMMARY

This article describes how to disable fast shutdown in Windows 98.

MORE INFORMATION

When you shut down Microsoft Windows 95 or Windows 98, all device drivers are uninitialized. If fast shutdown is enabled in Windows 98, device drivers are not uninitialized. This results in a faster shutdown. Fast shutdown is enabled by default. Disabling fast shutdown may be necessary when you are troubleshooting shutdown problems in Windows 98.

To disable fast shutdown, follow these steps:

<ul type="square"> Click Start, point to Programs, point to Accessories, point to System Tools, and then click System Information.
On the Tools menu, click System Configuration Utility.
On the General tab, click Advanced.
Click to select the Disable Fast Shutdown check box, click OK, and then click OK.
Click Yes when you are prompted to restart your computer.[/list]

Disabling fast shutdown in Windows 98 changes the FastReboot value data from 1 to 0 in the following registry key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Shutdown

[/ QUOTE ]
How to Disable Fast Shutdown in Windows 98 (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;187607)

[Rhino]

Good one Doc. I forgot that one.

[nosferatuscoffin]

After booting up, hit the Del key and go to your Power Settings. Set it for for both
ACPI/APM power settings and set it for both.

Win98 does not have a native shutdown process, because it has 8-bit and 16-bit code embedded in it. The best you can do in that situation is to disable programs running the background (i.s. God Held Us. AOL) and go from there.

If you have AOL on your system, uninstall it.

[DoctorDoom]

8-bit? I know it has 16- and 32-bit code, but I know of no PCs that run 8-bit code (other than my Commodores).

[Rhino]

[ QUOTE ]
nosferatuscoffin said:
If you have AOL on your system, uninstall it.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a good all around cure for LOTS of problems!

[nosferatuscoffin]

All versions of Windows 3x and 9x have 8-bit code embedded into them, mainly for legacy application and game support. That is one reason it is very unstable, since essentially you are letting an unchaperoned DOS session run loose in the system thread just waiting for it to commit suicide.

The 8-code bit was (supposedly) dumped in all versions of Windows that use the NT kernel (NT, XP, 2000). Hence, one reason those OS's will not run a lot of older games and apps.

[DoctorDoom]

Hmmm... I don't recall an 8-bit CPU since the 6510/6800/8008/8080/Z80 era. The 8086, 8088, 80186 and 80286 were 16-bit. "Legacy" code has been 16-bit since CPUs went over to 32-bit with the 80386DX/SX.

I'm fascinated by PC history. Do you have any info on what programs actually used 8-bit code (other than for video)?

[Rhino]

I'm somewhat curious too. My MCSE materials say 16 bit for 9X, not 8. NT used an emulator to run 16 bit stuff.

[nosferatuscoffin]

I was talking about 8-bit code, using 8 bits to spell out a one word byte, not 8-bit processing via a CPU. Maybe I was unclear. Some old DOS and early Win programs (mainly games) still used 8-bit/1 byte words to make video card calls, handle arrays etc. Later versions of Windows would use the emulator (since they were multithreaded and could handshake co-operatively with the CPU) to execute said 8-bit code.

As for true 8-bit CPU's, that went out with the 8088 (I was just playing with my Leading Edge XT a few weeks ago which has that chip, speaking of that). Almost made me pine for the 80's days of BASIC coding that I used to do a lot back then. Laf.

Sorry if I was not clear.

[TheRealLobo]

What I think she (CaliGirl) is talking about is when you do a "shutdown" from Windows, the computer automatically turns itself off..

CaliGirl, if I remember correctly, that is a setting in BIOS. If you are using the same computer and haven't changed the BIOS, then it should still be in there (honestly I'm NOT sure if it's in BIOS or not), and you need to look through BIOS.

The only machine I have WIN98 on currently is a laptop, and I can't confirm this right now. I'll check with a couple of my co-workers, and will get back to you today.

[CaliGirl]

[ QUOTE ]
TheRealLobo said:
What I think she (CaliGirl) is talking about is when you do a "shutdown" from Windows, the computer automatically turns itself off..

CaliGirl, if I remember correctly, that is a setting in BIOS. If you are using the same computer and haven't changed the BIOS, then it should still be in there (honestly I'm NOT sure if it's in BIOS or not), and you need to look through BIOS.

The only machine I have WIN98 on currently is a laptop, and I can't confirm this right now. I'll check with a couple of my co-workers, and will get back to you today.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that is what I am looking for. I went to help, and didn't find anything under BIOS. Where would I find that?

[DoctorDoom]

The BIOS (Basic Input-Output System) is the heart of the boot-up sequence. It sets most of the operating parameters for the machine. The rule of thumb is this: if you're not sure what the BIOS is, you don't want to go there. A wrong setting on a critical spec can give you an expensive paperweight, and it ain't that easy to undo.

98SE was notorious for shutdown problems. Disabling fast shutdown cured a lot of them. Patches cured others.

Here's a search result for Microsoft Knowledge Base articles on this issue. There are 123 articles listed. Have fun.

Windows 98/SE shutdown (http://support.microsoft.com/search/default.aspx?Catalog=LCID%3D1033%26CDID%3DEN-US-KB%26PRODLISTSRC%3DON&amp;withinResults=&amp;QuerySource=g ASr_Query&amp;Product=w98&amp;Queryc=shutdown&amp;Query=shutdo wn&amp;KeywordType=ANY&amp;maxResults=150&amp;Titles=false&amp;num Days=)

[nosferatuscoffin]

Actually, MS did an update on this a year or two ago, mainly dealing with Windows 98 not emptying it's cache to the hard drive before a shutdown request was made.

If you have not done a Windows update in quite awhile, I would suggest just downloading all updated pertaining to your syttem. That update should be in there.

As for the BIOS and where the power management mods are stored, it depends whether you are running an AMI or Award BIOS. Generally, in a AMI BIOS, it will be listed under the Power Management menu item.

[Rhino]

Unfortunately, the updates don't always fix the problem though.

Cali, the BIOS is not a part of Windows, so you won't find it in a help file. The BIOS is loaded on the motherboard itself and is technically part of your hardware (firmware actually). Almost all PCs display a message at boot-up telling you how to enter the BIOS. For example, on a Dell it almost always says "Hit 'Del' to enter setup". Your PC manual (if you have one) might provide more info.

[nosferatuscoffin]

This is true, but I would feel bad asking Cali to know her mainboard version number and then DLing the BIOS update.

Cali, if this problem persists, the only logical solution is to backup your critical data, make sure you have the important dics, (e.. Windows, Office and anything you deem important and repartitioning and reformatting that drive)

We shall guide you thru the whole process. http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[DoctorDoom]

[ QUOTE ]
This is true, but I would feel bad asking Cali to know her mainboard version number and then DLing the BIOS update.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto. That's geek stuff. Anyone who isn't familiar with the guts of a box shouldn't go into the BIOS (or with Windows, the registry). A lot of grief can come from it. There are horror stories out there about BIOS updates that aborted and left the owner with a $1K doorstop and some expense to correct it.

That sort of info should be available on the Net if Cali will provide the make, model number and serial number for the puter.

[nosferatuscoffin]

Indeed.

However, if Cali can give me the make of the PC and it's serial number, I can most likely track down the mainboard version.

[Rhino]

[ QUOTE ]
nosferatuscoffin said:
This is true, but I would feel bad asking Cali to know her mainboard version number and then DLing the BIOS update.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I was just relating how to access it for reference guys, because she thought she could find reference information in a help file. I was assuming she would have CaliBoy do any changes, as she has said in the past that he is more PC-literate, and she has always been cautious enough not to mess with something she isn't familiar with. However, if she can simply look to see what kind of BIOS she has, it could help in guiding her through anything. OEMs do sometimes customize the BIOS somewhat, but it almost always still looks and operates relatively the same.

For instance, she can go here (http://www.amibios.com/support/bios.cfm) to see how to identify an AMIBIOS version and then view the manuals for motherboards that show how to make changes properly. For AWARD BIOS, she can check here (http://www.phoenix.com/en/customer+services/bios/awardbios/setup+index.htm) to get to the correct setting, etc. eSupport (http://www.esupport.com/index.cfm?refererid=20) is a decent reference for any BIOS upgrades she might need.

I have walked computer novices through this numerous times before without any problems, so it can be done. But I always did it after they had the appropriate reference materials, so you were mistaken if you thought I was advising her to make any changes at this point.

[DoctorDoom]

The thought never crossed my mind, brer Rhino. But, we have lurkers who might decide to go 'splorin' in the innards and change the wrong setting. We'uns know how easy that is to do.

[CaliGirl]

WOW Guys! I had forgotten about this thread. I am dumb founded on all of the help!

Gees...I don't know what to say. I sorta gave up on the complete power shut off. My hard drive is brand spankin' new as of Apr 2003. It's 40GB.

Let me reread this whole thread and get back to ya'll. Man, I am still stunned on all of the help! You guys are great! But, you already knew that, huh? http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon16.gif

[CaliGirl]

[ QUOTE ]
DoctorDoom said:
The thought never crossed my mind, brer Rhino. But, we have lurkers who might decide to go 'splorin' in the innards and change the wrong setting. We'uns know how easy that is to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh...speak English Doc! LOL

Do you mean someone can explore my innards and change the settings? Isn't that hacking a puter?

[DoctorDoom]

Nope. I'm speaking of the owners who are unaware of what's going on under the hood who might find a discussion re BIOS and the registry and decide to change settings and see what happens. It's a bit like heading out onto the LA Freeway without knowing how to drive. *CRASH*

[Rhino]

And unfortunately many of them don't need to find a discussion to do it. They just meddle in anything new they discover. The real amusing part is when many of these idiots try to blame the PC because it let them do it!!!

[nosferatuscoffin]

Nods Rhino. So many do that. It is like an itch that they have to scratch.

On the AMI vs. Award BIOS, I prefer AMI for it's simplicity and ease of flashing. However, Award gives you more options underneath it's hood. (If you can find the proper codes to delve into the every mem and IRQ spec etc.).

[Rhino]

I usuallly don't do too much BIOS tweaking beyond basic settings, but I generally prefer AMI too.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Here's something that might be helpful:

Go to Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > Scheduled Tasks. Then, add this line into the program you'd like to run:

C:\WINDOWS\RUNDLL.EXE user.exe,exitwindows

That should make the computer auto-shutoff.

Play a nasty prank on a friend! Replace the Outlook Express shortcut (or something they use often) to point to that >:)

OR use that Scheduled Tasks to auto-shutoff every ten minutes. Did this to my parents and it drove them <u>insane</u> http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon133.gif