Fire on the Strip

[Incident_command]

LAS VEGAS --
A three-alarm fire broke out Friday on the roof of the Monte Carlo hotel-casino, sending plumes of black smoke above the Las Vegas Strip.
City and county firefighters responded to the fire, which was reported at about 11 a.m., said fire spokesman Tim Szymanski.
MGM Mirage, the casino's owner, had no immediate information about the blaze

http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/News/Las-Vegas-Hotel-Casino-on-Fire/46$58058

[MSGT]

:fire:

[buckeyepete]

I've been watching it on Fox News for the last 45 mins, and it is now out. No injuries no loss of life. :claps: The roof and top front of the building look like crap though.

[ColonialMarine0431]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/ColonialMarine/Blame%20Bush/120188.jpg

[Air Force Guy]

Sin City catches a glimpse of flaming Hell. Pictures at 11.

Oh well...

[Taylor1]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/ColonialMarine/Blame%20Bush/120188.jpg

Yeah man I'm gonna come to some stupid as hell conclusion now that makes no sense in the f-ing world and then persuade you to believe it! Anyway, the fire actually made some damage there. It'd be interesting to see how many people book in that hotel again.

[MSGT]

You know that's a joke, right Taylor?

[Incident_command]

Well it was no MGM fire thank goodness

[Wolfcounsel]

"Yeah man I'm gonna come to some stupid as hell conclusion now that makes no senseBLAHBLAHBLAHYACKYACKYACKFARTULULATEBELCH...ho tel again" --Taylor1

That is a running joke here, grasshopper!:punish:

[Naturalized-Texan]

On our last 2 trips to Las Vegas we stayed at the Monte Carlo and my wife, her sister, and her 1st cousin stayed there for a week several years ago. We would have no qualms about staying there again.

[Gonzo67]

Sin City catches a glimpse of flaming Hell. Pictures at 11.

Oh well...


You know, not a single word for you in praise for the fire fighters that risked their own death to save people.

Not a single word of thankfulness that people managed to get out of that fire without a single loss of life.

No, YOUR only words is to speak about how all those people somehow DESERVE it.

What a fuking Christian you are.

You know, I think you have forever lost your RIGHT to quote scripture and throw Bible verses at people. I feel you have lost your RIGHT to thump that Bible in anyone else's face. YOU disgust me.

[Incident_command]

On our last 2 trips to Las Vegas we stayed at the Monte Carlo and my wife, her sister, and her 1st cousin stayed there for a week several years ago. We would have no qualms about staying there again.


It is nice NT.We went through there a few times. We have stayed at Luxor and NYNY. Both were great. When we go back in a few months it will be The Venetian or Wynn.

[Rhino]

You know that's a joke, right Taylor?Apparently he didn't catch that. But, he's new.

[Air Force Guy]

You know, not a single word for you in praise for the fire fighters that risked their own death to save people.

Not a single word of thankfulness that people managed to get out of that fire without a single loss of life.

No, YOUR only words is to speak about how all those people somehow DESERVE it.

What a fuking Christian you are.

You know, I think you have forever lost your RIGHT to quote scripture and throw Bible verses at people. I feel you have lost your RIGHT to thump that Bible in anyone else's face. YOU disgust me.
Gonzo's perturbed over sin not getting a fair shake? Awww. Score 1 more for the good.

[Gonzo67]

Gonzo's perturbed over sin not getting a fair shake? Awww. Score 1 more for the good.


Please, oh Pious One, enlighten me... What "sin" exactly did the people inside that hotel commit? What "sin" are they guilty of? What "sin" did the fire-fighters risking their lives commit? Please tell us since you ARE "all knowing" and the holiest of the holy"

Let's get something straight right now, you and me...

I don't dislike you because of your "religion". I don't dislike you because of your "opinions". I DESPISE you because of YOU.

Nearly every one of your fuking posts does nothing more than thump a bible you CLAIM to hold sacred, but have not once SHOWN that you have the slightest understanding of.

ANY asshole can copy down the heading of a bible verse. You have proved that because you do it in just about every post. You try to pass yourself off as the "model Christian", but you're nothing more than a cheap, bargain basement imitation of Fred Phelps. The more you post, the more I am convinced you're actually one of those little scum bags in his congregation.

I know for a fact, God himself is looking down from Heaven thinking to himself "I can't believe this slimy little dick-head thinks he's on MY side!" You are NOT a Christian because you do not have a single OUNCE of compassion or humanity within you. So please, do NOT insult actual Christians by claiming to be one.

You radiate nothing but contempt and derision for anyone that is not YOU. By your own sig line, you ADMIT to being "intolerant" of anyone not of your political leanings or your "religion". You do not have the SLIGHTEST respect for anyone else. So how can you come to these forums every day, claiming to be a "Christian" when it's CLEAR to everyone that is infected by ANY of your posts that you're nothing but a little hypocritical bag of puss?

THAT is why I despise you. You are free to practice your "religion" all you want, but just like Phelps's "religion" I'll be damned if I know what YOUR religion is. Because it sure as hell isn't what YOU claim it to be.

Get a clue you little maggot. If you're going to quote Bible verses, I suggest you start reading more than the heading and trying to UNDERSTAND the word. Try LIVING by the word before you start slamming others for falling short. Because as far as I can see, the Bible is NOT working for you. You may as well use it as a coaster for all your understanding of it.

[Air Force Guy]

Wonder what the final count of emergency rescue folks living in San Fagsicko will be when the big one falls on them?

Picture for a moment, the existence of San Fran without any doctors, police, firemen, or parameds. No matter how much power the mayor, city council, teachers union and judges have over that city, a walkout by the aforementioned, if only the decent hetero ones, would bring any city that size to its knees--in a good way, in this case.

[ThomasMore]

AFG, there are Christians in S.F., and some spreading the Word. (Talk about a target-rich environment!)

I dislike the garbage we see coming from SF as much as you do, but for the time being God HASN'T delivered a catastrophe. Maybe He has His reasons, including souls still to be saved.

We are on this earth a very short time. Considering the scope of eternity, it is the blink of an eye. God made each soul to be with Him through eternity, and each one lost is a disaster to the soul, to God, and even to the rest of us, who will lose his or her community through eternity.

Gonzo is right that you often seem most interested in condemning others' sinful natures. Many of us here also speak up against sins, but Gonzo (and I) see no love for the sinners in your remarks, only taking pleasure in condemnation.

Call upon you, then, do I -- the prisoner of the Lord -- to walk worthily of the calling with which ye were called, with all lowliness and meekness, with long-suffering, forbearing one another in love, speak truth each with his neighbour, because we are members one of another; Let no corrupt word out of your mouth go forth, but what is good unto the needful building up, that it may give grace to the hearers; and make not sorrowful the Holy Spirit of God, in which ye were sealed to a day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil-speaking, be put away from you, with all malice, and become one to another kind, tender-hearted, forgiving one another, according as also God in Christ did forgive you. (Ephesians 4:1-2, 25, 29-32)

There is none righteous, not even one. (Romans 3:10)

because He is kind unto the ungracious and evil; be ye therefore merciful, as also your Father is merciful. 'And judge not, and ye may not be judged; condemn not, and ye may not be condemned; release, and ye shall be released. The good man out of the good treasure of his heart doth bring forth that which is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart doth bring forth that which is evil; for out of the abounding of the heart doth his mouth speak. (Luke 6:35-37, 45)

And thou, why dost thou judge thy brother? or again, thou, why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand at the tribunal of the Christ; no longer, therefore, may we judge one another, but this judge ye rather, not to put a stumbling-stone before the brother, or an offence. (Romans 14:10, 13).

If with the tongues of men and of messengers I speak, and have not love, I have become brass sounding, or a cymbal tinkling; and if I have prophecy, and know all the secrets, and all the knowledge, and if I have all the faith, so as to remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing; and if I give away to feed others all my goods, and if I give up my body that I may be burned, and have not love, I am profited nothing. The love is long-suffering, it is kind, the love doth not envy, the love doth not vaunt itself, is not puffed up, is not provoked, doth not impute evil, all things it beareth, all it believeth, all it hopeth, all it endureth. (1 Corinthians 13:1-7)

I exhort, then, first of all, there be made supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, for all men: for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour, who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth; for one is God, one also is mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus, who did give himself a ransom for all -- the testimony in its own times -- in regard to which I was set a preacher and apostle -- truth I say in Christ, I do not lie -- a teacher of nations, in faith and truth. I wish, therefore, that men pray in every place, lifting up kind hands, apart from anger and reasoning; (1 Timothy 2:1, 3-8)

AFG, as Christians, there is nothing wrong with identifying sin, commenting upon it and offering admonition -- in fact, we are commanded to do so, precisely to guide the wayward to truth. There is nothing wrong with addressing worldly evils with worldly punishments, as appropriate. But we Christians, should not lose sight of the fact the even the most fallen, destructive and evil people can sometimes be saved and transformed -- and Heaven rejoices when it happens.

The death of any evil or unsaved person might be just and even necessary. But it is also a tragedy to the unsaved, to God, and to His church. Where possible, we should hope, pray and intervene where we can to protect the unsaved. Another day of life is another chance at saving their eternity. To do so gives them an immeasurable gift, and honors God.

When the Lord has given up on a soul is for Him to decide.

[Air Force Guy]

There's a difference between a 'sinner' (all of us) and the unrepentant, inyourface spawn of Hell rabble. If you won't differentiate between them then feel free to sit there with your judges robes on and nail me all day long. Now, go high five Gonzo and get on with your lives.

[Gonzo67]

There's a difference between a 'sinner' (all of us) and the unrepentant, inyourface spawn of Hell rabble.


Not to you there's not. you have made that abundantly clear.

You failed to answer any of my questions Hypocrite...

What sins did the fire fighters commit? Can you tell me? Do you know any of them personally and are able to INTELLIGENTLY elaborate on their "unrepentant" ways?

The people in the hotel... what sins did they commit? Was it the sin of just BEING in Las Vegas? Because you sure as hell don't know any of them personally, and yet you're so damn sure they are all "unrepentant sinners". So tell me, HOW THE HELL did you come to that conclusion?

Don't skirt the questions you chicken shit little hypocrite. ANSWER them, if you can.

What about the actual Churches in Vegas? I'm not talking about the drive through 24 hour wedding chapels, I'm talking LEGITIMATE CHURCHES. And they DO exist out there. What about them? Are the priests of those churches, the parishioners, all of them "unrepentant sinners" because of the location of their church? Do THEY measure up to your moral convictions? Are THEY going to be admitted into Heaven by you? Because YOU seem to believe you're the gate keeper. You're there with St. Peter checking that log book making sure you don't let in any "undesirables".

You are nothing but a bloated, self righteous hypocrite. You know jack shit about dick. It's my firm belief that you wouldn't know a bible if someone beat you across that empty fuking head of yours with one. Your self perceived piety is ALMOST as much of a joke as you are.

But I'll do you this one favor. I'll wish for you that when you're done with this world, that you receive the "Heaven" that you seem to believe it is. I'll wish for you the long eternity of emptiness that you seem to cherish now. Because YOUR idea of who is worthy and who is NOT worthy, will make YOUR heaven a very lonely place. Just you and your self righteous ego. Air Force Guy... a Heaven of one.

Good luck to you.

[Air Force Guy]

Amazingly "holy" when the mood suits you eh Gonz? :noggin:

Put me on your ignore list and get on with your life little man. :limp:

[Gonzo67]

Amazingly "holy" when the mood suits you eh Gonz?


Excuse me? Were you born retarded or did you just practice a lot? Go through all my posts cup-cake and show me where I claim to be "holy". Show me one single bible passage I have quoted. You can't I'm not the one who claims the title of "Definitive Christian". That's YOUR M.O.


Put me on your ignore list and get on with your life little man.


Notice the theme on the quotes...

So, you give that little limp wrist smiley to try to insinuate that I'm gay somehow...

Only problem there is, sweet thing, 95% of YOUR posts bring up homosexuality. Even when the topic has NOTHING to do with it, you try to work "homosexuality" into it. So tell us Hot-Pants... you trying to tell us something? Testing the waters so to speak? Thinking about coming out of that closet of yours? Don't worry, we wont judge you for that sugar. You gave us all so much MORE for us to judge you on, that your rope sucking escapades pale in comparison.

You know, I don't need to put you on ignore. Frankly, you're not worthy of the key-strokes required to do it. Personally, I'd like nothing better than to sit here and slam you daily. Not only do you deserve it, but it's a no-loose situation for anyone who wishes to engage in it. Because you're amazingly moronic and have no hope of ever combating it.

The only problem is, that the other Christians are soon going to be sick of having YOU for a "self appointed spokes-person for Christianity" and they'll bounce you from the forums faster than they would if Shirley Phelps herself showed up to post.

So please, continue. Do some more searches on the web. I'm sure you'll find plenty of "gay images" to post in your futile attempts to divert attention from the obvious facts... like, you know.. the fact that you STILL refuse to answer the questions I posted twice now. The fact they you STILL refuse to defend your position.

Here, let me offer you some tips... first, go to google.com and do a search for the word gay. then click on the IMAGES link. You'll find plenty of pictures for your diversion attempts... wait,what am i saying, you probably already know that don't you? Yeah, I'll bet you got a couple hundred gay web sites book-marked there don't you Loretta?

Well, I'll try to make this easy. I'm going to ask you a third time to answer those 2 simple questions.

#1: What sins did the firefighters commit to make them unworthy in your eyes?

#2: What sins did the guests at the hotel commit to make them unworthy in your eyes?

Now, I have asked you three times. Lets see if you actually have the balls to answer this time, instead of using the: "ummmm Shut up! You're gay!" tactic.

Come on, even a dickless little wonder like you can answer two simple questions....

[ThomasMore]

There's a difference between a 'sinner' (all of us) and the unrepentant, inyourface spawn of Hell rabble. If you won't differentiate between them then feel free to sit there with your judges robes on and nail me all day long. Now, go high five Gonzo and get on with your lives.

I haven't judged you, AFG. But from a Christian perspective, I have admonished you, and shown you scripture to support it.

If you can show me where I am in error, please do, and I mean that. I am open to correction. Are you?

[Taylor1]

God has delievered catastrophes to SF, just they haven't done enough damage!

Oh and Gonzo, chill a little there dude please.

[Naturalized-Texan]

AFG: I've stayed in the Monte Carlo Hotel twice and I didn't sin while I was there except to maybe overeat a little in their buffet. Also, I didn't see anyone else there sinning, unless you call having a little harmless fun sinning. I saw no prostitutes there, there was no nudity in their shows (the main show is a tremendous illusionist act). Everyone was well behaved. So when you condemn "the unrepentant, inyourface spawn of Hell rabble" there, you had to have been referring to the heroic firefighters who had to climb up the stairs 34 stories to fight the fire.

[Taylor1]

Apparently he didn't catch that. But, he's new.

Its okay rhino, I knew that was a joke. But now a days as you know and so does everyone liberals blame bush for anything they can think of thats bad except for the good things happening in Iraq.

[ThomasMore]

AFG and Gonz, both of you will have to watch the language or I will have this moved to Flame Wars, where you can have at it.

[Maggie_T]

Guys, AFG made a JOKE. Remember jokes? Say it's in poor taste, if you want. You needn't be amused by it, either. Humor, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder sometimes.

But don't get all hot under the collar just because you don't the guy's particular brand of joke.

Can we lighten up a bit, please?

[BabyBeastie]

Yeah guys, lighten up or else I'll give you something to whine about. (That's what my dad used to say.)

LOL

[Gonzo67]

Guys, AFG made a JOKE. Remember jokes? Say it's in poor taste, if you want. You needn't be amused by it, either. Humor, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder sometimes.


I disagree Maggie. He was not "joking" in that comment. No smiley, no "sarcasm off" etc to indicate it was anything more than his actual, honest feelings and beliefs. All his past posts on other topics, and all his defense and stammering in THIS topic proves that out.

At any rate, his "comment" is not what I am calling into question. As I said, I do not dislike him for his religion or even his "beliefs" and certainly not for his "opinions". What I detest about him, what I find TRULY repulsive about him, is his incessant posting of religious scripture and his blatant, all out Bible Thumping, when he CLEARLY has no cause or RIGHT to do so.

And the fact that ANY Christian would tolerate his holier than thou attitude, and his COMPLETE misrepresentation of their religion, astounds me.

I would liken it to you offering your support to the Phelps's brand of "Christianity". And don't get me wrong, I know for a fact that you, and nearly ALL Christians in these forums do NOT support Phelps in any way. But even a slight "nod of the head" to THIS clown is nothing more than support for "Christianity ala Phelps". Because that's EXACTLY what Air Farce Guy is...

I despise this little twit, and if it takes dragging him AND this thread to flame wars, so be it. He's just made me completely sick with his Bible Thumping and his B.S. Posturing that I feel if no Christian is willing to put him in his place, I'll do it myself so no self respecting Christian will have to lower themselves enough to acknowledge him.

You can thank me later or not.

But Air Farce Guy is a joke, and his lack of defense and failure to even address the issue of the thread shows me to be correct in my judgment.

He admonishes Thomas for "judging him"...


feel free to sit there with your judges robes on and nail me all day long. Now, go high five Gonzo and get on with your lives.


And yet what does HE do in every one of HIS posts, if not judge the world?

He speaks out against homosexuality in nearly every thread, even when the thread is NOT about homosexuality. I would think something that you DON'T want existing in the world, you would at least make a small attempt NOT to give it so much coverage. But no, he FEEDS on it. Like a parasitic little life form, he would shrivel up and DIE if it did not exist for him to shake his Bible at and yell "BEGONE FOUL ONE!"

He's a charlatan. A sham. He's an insult to ANY religion, not just Christianity. And as long as his "Phelpsesqe" preaching is allowed a voice, I will CONTINUE to oppose and shout his voice down. Because as it is in HIS right to despise anyone and everyone not like him, it is well within MY rights to despise him personally.

And despise him I will, with every fiber in my being.

[Air Force Guy]

I know a guy that needs to badly get a life and/or a girlfriend--maybe just a pet to play with.

I need to find the ignore button since you seem incapable of it. I guess there had to be one ignore on my list at some point. Welcome to it.

[Incident_command]

Yeah guys, lighten up or else I'll give you something to whine about. (That's what my dad used to say.)

LOL

Yea, and my dad would say, Laugh and the whole world laughs with you. Cry and I'll give you something to cry about you little baby.

[Air Force Guy]

Yea, and my dad would say, Laugh and the whole world laughs with you. Cry and I'll give you something to cry about you little baby.I remember that phrase from my childhood but I can't remember if it was my mom or dad that used it. They didn't use it often, as a small child I was granted decent nap time and was always cheerful after getting "power naps." Come to think of it, the same is true to this day. :D

[Air Force Guy]

AFG: I've stayed in the Monte Carlo Hotel twice and I didn't sin while I was there except to maybe overeat a little in their buffet. Also, I didn't see anyone else there sinning, unless you call having a little harmless fun sinning. I saw no prostitutes there, there was no nudity in their shows (the main show is a tremendous illusionist act). Everyone was well behaved. So when you condemn "the unrepentant, inyourface spawn of Hell rabble" there, you had to have been referring to the heroic firefighters who had to climb up the stairs 34 stories to fight the fire.I had to have been referring to what???? Huh?

You're out in left field bro. I'm talking about the machine that keeps the money rolling into such a place where so many souls are lost in one weekend (or less). That is a phenomenon that has had more than one book written about it.

I've been stationed at Nellis AFB, yep, longer term than the little wisp of a jaunt you had there. I will not sit here and type out all the ruination stories from my stint there, thanks to God I wasn't one of them==but to act like Vegasisallabouttheprettylightsanddinnershows ==please, don't even try.

[Air Force Guy]

I haven't judged you, AFG. But from a Christian perspective, I have admonished you, and shown you scripture to support it.

If you can show me where I am in error, please do, and I mean that. I am open to correction. Are you?
I missed the part where you showed me where I categorically cast hate upon Homosexuals in toto instead of the act of homosexuality. Start there.

[Gonzo67]

I need to find the ignore button since you seem incapable of it. I guess there had to be one ignore on my list at some point. Welcome to it.


Oh Boo Hoo... Poor widdle girl can't take it? She's able to dish it out to everyone else, but when it happens to her she's gonna "take her pom poms and run home".

Coward, great use of the ignore feature. yet ANOTHER evasion from answering the questions that were put to you THREE times.

Still think he was "joking" Maggie?

Face it, Air Farce is about as "Christian" as bin Laden was. Air Face Gay is nothing more than a pathetic waste of sperm. In fact, he SHOULD have been a B.J.

[Naturalized-Texan]

I had to have been referring to what???? Huh?

You're out in left field bro. I'm talking about the machine that keeps the money rolling into such a place where so many souls are lost in one weekend (or less). That is a phenomenon that has had more than one book written about it.

I've been stationed at Nellis AFB, yep, longer term than the little wisp of a jaunt you had there. I will not sit here and type out all the ruination stories from my stint there, thanks to God I wasn't one of them==but to act like Vegasisallabouttheprettylightsanddinnershows ==please, don't even try.
I still don't understand where the sin is. My best guess is that you are saying that those who are too stupid to know when to stop gambling are sinning, which may very well be true. But to blanket accuse everyone who was in that hotel and casino as "unrepentant, inyourface spawn of Hell rabble" is stupid as well as un-Christian.

[CONSERVATIVE HERO]

AFG: I've stayed in the Monte Carlo Hotel twice and I didn't sin while I was there except to maybe overeat a little in their buffet. Also, I didn't see anyone else there sinning, unless you call having a little harmless fun sinning. I saw no prostitutes there, there was no nudity in their shows (the main show is a tremendous illusionist act). Everyone was well behaved. So when you condemn "the unrepentant, inyourface spawn of Hell rabble" there, you had to have been referring to the heroic firefighters who had to climb up the stairs 34 stories to fight the fire.
I know I am just kinda walking into the middle of all of this and whatnot, so I may not fully understand the situation, but I'm not sure I follow. How is being a firefighter/heroic and immoral mutually exclusive? (I know this will likely be misconstrued as anti-firefighter, but...) I'm sure there are firefighters in frisco who spend their weekends in bath houses and can be found in drag at every pride parade. Being heroic doesn't necessarily mean without fault and therefore above criticism? Or am I wrong?

From what I read his comment seems like it's a generalization about the city as a whole (and has nothing to do with firefighters, nor is it a suggestion that no one there can be good, but that's just my interpretation), and why would that bother anyone, the city sorta claims the title of "sin city" proudly does it not (and even slants its advertising to subtly convey that message to people)?

I for one have never cared for the manner in which they advertise their city (that whole "what happens here stays here" crud). Why not just say what you really mean Vegas? "Have your affair in Vegas! You can even bang some hookers while your in town! Because no one will ever know about it (including your significant other) if you do it in Vegas baby!"

That's my two cents. I haven't read the whole thread or anything though.

[Air Force Guy]

Man! Imagine that! Somebody totally unrelated to the thread was able to figure out my post! Well-done CH.

Somebody somehow has it in their head that I turned this subject into a rage-against-LV-firemen thread. I have no idea where such strawmen come from.:rolleyes:

[ThomasMore]

Sin City catches a glimpse of flaming Hell. Pictures at 11.

Oh well...

Gonzo's perturbed over sin not getting a fair shake? Awww. Score 1 more for the good.

Wonder what the final count of emergency rescue folks living in San Fagsicko will be when the big one falls on them?

Picture for a moment, the existence of San Fran without any doctors, police, firemen, or parameds. No matter how much power the mayor, city council, teachers union and judges have over that city, a walkout by the aforementioned, if only the decent hetero ones, would bring any city that size to its knees--in a good way, in this case.

There's a difference between a 'sinner' (all of us) and the unrepentant, inyourface spawn of Hell rabble. If you won't differentiate between them then feel free to sit there with your judges robes on and nail me all day long. Now, go high five Gonzo and get on with your lives.

I missed the part where you showed me where I categorically cast hate upon Homosexuals in toto instead of the act of homosexuality. Start there.

AFG, you never said that, and I never responded to that. My comments were based on what you DID say, pasted above.

I am not going to chase straw-men. You know what I commented on. My comments and the related scriptures either mean something to you or they do not; take them or leave them.

But should I keep your classification system in mind when you talk about the unrepentant?

[T]he city sorta claims the title of "sin city" proudly does it not (and even slants its advertising to subtly convey that message to people)?

I for one have never cared for the manner in which they advertise their city (that whole "what happens here stays here" crud). Why not just say what you really mean Vegas? "Have your affair in Vegas! You can even bang some hookers while your in town! Because no one will ever know about it (including your significant other) if you do it in Vegas baby!"

I agree with you about the "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" advertising campaign. It sends precisely the message you describe: that Las Vegas is a morality-free zone. Go there for your gambling, prostitution, strippers, infidelity and other wretched excesses, "We won't tell! Promise!" LV's mayor, former mob lawyer Oscar Goodman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Goodman) approved the ads and even appeared in the early ones.

AFAIC, I have no desire to spend time in Las Vegas, but there are some who visit for innocent reasons (I go there regularly for work, but I am usually in and out very quickly). Nellis AFB is, for all intents and purposes, right on the border of LV. My church's senior pastor previously ran a church in LV, and found a crying need for ministering among the city's Christians. There were many who lived there who were devout, and many other people who were not yet Christian but hungry for the Word.

---

I don't wish Vegas's current message or excess to prosper. I do not wish evil or unrepentant sin to flourish.

At the same time, as I said in the beginning, I can't and won't root for a fire to kill people. As for me, that story about the woman laughing about running over a guy is still fresh in my mind, and I didn't think that was funny, either.

---

AFG, it might be that what you said was meant as a joke, and if I misunderstood that, I apologize. But if it is, in two pages of posts I haven't seen you say that.

[Incident_command]

At the same time, as I said in the beginning, I can't and won't root for a fire to kill people. As for me, that story about the woman laughing about running over a guy is still fresh in my mind, and I didn't think that was funny, either.
.

I agree. I remeber when a member made the comment "You dance with the devil and this is what you get" in response to the people killed in the fire at the Great White concert at The Station Night Club.
I thought it to be one of the most ignorant comments I had heard.

[DesertFox]

Employee of the Month

[CONSERVATIVE HERO]

AFG, there are Christians in S.F., and some spreading the Word. (Talk about a target-rich environment!)

I dislike the garbage we see coming from SF as much as you do, but for the time being God HASN'T delivered a catastrophe. Maybe He has His reasons, including souls still to be saved.

We are on this earth a very short time. Considering the scope of eternity, it is the blink of an eye. God made each soul to be with Him through eternity, and each one lost is a disaster to the soul, to God, and even to the rest of us, who will lose his or her community through eternity.

Gonzo is right that you often seem most interested in condemning others' sinful natures. Many of us here also speak up against sins, but Gonzo (and I) see no love for the sinners in your remarks, only taking pleasure in condemnation.

AFG, as Christians, there is nothing wrong with identifying sin, commenting upon it and offering admonition -- in fact, we are commanded to do so, precisely to guide the wayward to truth. There is nothing wrong with addressing worldly evils with worldly punishments, as appropriate. But we Christians, should not lose sight of the fact the even the most fallen, destructive and evil people can sometimes be saved and transformed -- and Heaven rejoices when it happens.

The death of any evil or unsaved person might be just and even necessary. But it is also a tragedy to the unsaved, to God, and to His church. Where possible, we should hope, pray and intervene where we can to protect the unsaved. Another day of life is another chance at saving their eternity. To do so gives them an immeasurable gift, and honors God.

When the Lord has given up on a soul is for Him to decide.
I understand your perspective on the matter. I find many people today however label anyone who even remotely suggests that someone, or some place, might have gotten what was coming to them/it, as hateful and vindictive. Were I say New Orleans was punished by God, some would call me callous, and swear up and down I am distorting the loving, merciful nature of The Lord. But am I? It's not biblically unprecedented. God did destroy two cities because of their wickedness. It's also a sentiment one will find is traditionally American.

Vice, in the individual, may not always meet its retribution, nor virtue its reward, in this world, because there is to be another, of more perfect retribution for individuals. But nations exist here alone. Unlike the soul, they are annihilated at their temporal dissolution. Therefore, if their fortunes and fate be subject of the Divine Providence, to their present existence, which is the only one, must be applied the principle of its moral rule. -- Rev. Mellish Irving Motte, 1840[Divine] Revelation assures us that "Righteousness exalteth a nation" [Proverbs 14:34]. Communities are dealt with in this world by the wise and just Ruler of the Universe. He rewards or punishes them according to their general character. -- Samuel Adams As nations cannot be rewarded or punished in the next world, so they must be in this. By an inevitable chain of causes and effects, Providence punishes national sins with national calamities. -- George MasonIt was said, it ought to be considered, that national crimes can only be, and frequently are, punished in this world by national punishments. -- Luther MartinThe Supreme Governor of the World rewards or punishes nations and civil communities only in this life... Political bodies are but the creatures of time. They have no existence as such but in the present state; consequently, are incapable of punishments or rewards in the future. We can conceive no way in which the divine Being shall therefore manifest the purity of his nature... towards such societies but by rewarding or punishing them here, according to their public conduct. -- Chandler Robbins[T}he prosperous smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which heaven itself has ordained. -- George WashintonAnd have we now forgotten that powerful Friend? Or do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?... Without his concurring aid... we ourselves shall become a reproach and a byword down to future ages. -- Benjamin FranklinI tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever. -- Thomas Jefferson How easily people forget that the same God that is love also stated 'to me belongs vengeance.'

In all honesty, what would you say, to use Samuel Adam's words, is the "general character" of Las Vegas these days? What would you say is the "general character" of America? Many scoff at the notion that we're being dealt what's due, despite the fact we are as a nation, sinking deeper and deeper into the opposite of that which is virtuous and holy.

You say God has not sent Catastrophe yet? Are you sure of that? Can you say in what form exactly God will send catastrophe? Is it only natural events, like storms, earthquakes, etc.? Or could it be in another form? Did got not allow the Israelites to be overcome in war, for example, when they departed from his path?

Jer 18:7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed,
Jer 18:8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned.
Jer 18:9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted,
Jer 18:10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.We as a nation were built upon Godly principles, but we as a nation have strayed from those principles, and like it or not it's because Christians allowed it to happen.

Might I put forth that you both may be right? Of course the love of Christianity is as you suggest, absolutely necessary, but I believe that our nation's in its current moral disposition because, frankly, Christians have become too soft and exceedingly passive. Christians have been beaten into submission, and now there are too many lovers, and virtually no fighters IMO. (There's also far too many of us exploiting God's love and forgiveness as a means of growing very lax in our own morality. And when this happens, we become less inclined to edify others, as to do so would (as Jesus teaches us) result in being judged according to the same standard we apply to others. Many would choose silence rather than take action which, even arouses attention, much less puts themselves under the magnifying glass. But "Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.")

Christians now sit silent, afraid to speak out, while wickedness plants the seeds of iniquity all around them. They refuse to acknowledge that when love and kindness are ineffectual tougher methods may be necessary. Whom does watering down the faith, and convincing Christians it's not their place to judge, that speaking out violates their faith, benefit exactly? Is it not in the best interest of the wicked as opposed to the pious? Silent Christians who've been made to believe it's not their place to judge translates to a perfect world for those with no conscience of their own.

"Be a Christian, fine, just don't you tell me I can't be a homosexual. Sit down, shut up, and don't you dare say a word while we create a brave, new, and Godless government. By the time we come for your children, you can yell all you want, from the gulag (jail) where you'll be undergoing your rehabilitation (sensitivity training) for your (hate) crimes. -- The Left"

I think Christianity needs to lose the "hippie Christ" philosophy that's become so prevalent these days. It's really begun working against us at this point.

[ThomasMore]

CH, excellent points, and well stated.

I don't have any problem with admonition, and with being blunt about it. We should also defend what is right and good, and be clear about it -- both on an individual basis and politically. All of us here are interested in politics and policy, and deeply concerned about our country's direction.

I also agree with you about New Orleans's devastation. Similar devastations of San Francisco, Las Vegas and other cities would not surprise me in the slightest. If or when they happen, I will stand back in awe. I just hope I am not near any of those places when they happen. I am fully in agreement that it is God's prerogative, and He has told us repeatedly what to expect when we displease Him.

In the midst of New Orleans's destruction, I think many of us here were thinking it was not a surprise. I think many were disgusted by the self-righteous entitlement and uselessness of many of the citizens. Some were thinking that it was an "act of God" and considering the reasons why, myself included. I don't think many were wishing for MORE death and destruction, though.

But I don't see any place in the Bible encouraging a "go get 'em, they've got it coming" view. To the contrary, and as you rightly said, God makes it clear that vengeance is His.

What I took from AFG's comments was that he is taking malicious pleasure in the fire and hoping for the worst. That is what I commented on. Perhaps I misunderstood him. If that is not what he intended, I would love to hear it.