Kindergartener Handcuffed for Temper Tantrum [Archive]

HomeschoolrsRUs

01-26-2008, 11:52 AM

If the kid cant control himself due to ADD or whatever, he doesn't belong in that school. Kid should have been cuffed.

Absostinkinglutely! All those bleeding heart liberals on the video, pshaw! I'd like them to try to deal with an out of control child of 5 years old. I HAVE -- we had a one in our church nursery one time. You know what his PARENTS told me to do? Sit him on my lap with my arms around him in a bear hug until he calmed down! His FATHER was an investigative officer for the fire department!

Think about this, what recourse does a teacher have with an out of control child? What CAN they do? There's so little they're allowed to do, they certainly can't TOUCH the child, can't spank him, now they can't restrain him, so how are they SUPPOSED to deal with him WITHOUT endangering themselves of a lawsuit?

This makes me :flame:

Rhino

01-26-2008, 01:37 PM

Taze him, Bro! :lol:

buckeyepete

01-26-2008, 01:44 PM

I HAVE -- we had a one in our church nursery one time. You know what his PARENTS told me to do? Sit him on my lap with my arms around him in a bear hug until he calmed down! His FATHER was an investigative officer for the fire department!

Think about this, what recourse does a teacher have with an out of control child? What CAN they do? There's so little they're allowed to do, they certainly can't TOUCH the child, can't spank him, now they can't restrain him, so how are they SUPPOSED to deal with him WITHOUT endangering themselves of a lawsuit?

Holmes, I respect your opinion because you are mostly right in what you normally post, but this time I feel you have let your personal feelings override common sense.

A five year old child is a product of his/her environment (parents) or medical condition.

If need be, a 'bear hug' vs handcuffs may never change the way this child grows up. But, you and I know that the handcuffs did no good as to change that child's attitude or medical condition. If nothing else, the handcuffs may have traumatized the child so as to never trust a teacher or police officer again.

Holmes, as far as I'm concerned, I would have wrapped that child in my arms and held him/her all day till 'Daddy' came to pick him up. I don't know if the child has ADD ( a cop out sometimes ) or was just the product of a bad upbringing, But, a 5 year old doesn't deserve to be in handcuffs.

The link doesn't say what was done with the child after the handcuffs were administered. I would have hoped that the hugs were administered during this time.

My heart goes to the ADD/misguided child.:sad:

Ps,, Holmes, I know what you are saying about the legalities of touching the child, but sometimes we have to think of the welfare of the child, and damned the PC bulls**t.

ColonialMarine0431

01-26-2008, 01:50 PM

Sure is a fat little, girlie looking ****er, ain't he. Kid has a mental problem.

Memo to "boy's" parents: Quit feeding him sugar and fast food, and you'll see his "ADHD" disappear.

BabyBeastie

01-27-2008, 08:58 AM

i say taze the little !$#@%&

LOL

Wolfcounsel

01-27-2008, 10:33 AM

"Memo to "boy's" parents: Quit feeding him sugar and fast food, and you'll see his "ADHD" disappear." --ColonialMarine0431

That's a fact! Those little dumbasses are given all the sugar they want by bigger dumbasses.

Air Force Guy

01-27-2008, 10:36 AM

Epilogue: Kid was transferred to another school. Yeah, that'll fix the problem of recklessly violent tantrum throwing. :rolleyes:

Parents should've been the first to stand up and say, "now you know what WE go through on a daily/hourly basis. You people took away our right to corporal punishment and gave us pills instead."

I can only imagine what is going thru the minds of the new school's teachers and administrators. "WTH did WE do to deserve this kid?" and "WTH are WE going to do differently with the little beast?"

THEN,
Put yourself in the mind of a parent who is has a kid who'll now be in the same classroom as this little Tasmanian Devil.

gnome

01-27-2008, 10:46 AM

ADHD is only a cop-out if the parents refuse to treat it. There are medicinal treatments and even behavioral treatments if the parent prefers not to go the medicinal route. Cared for responsibly an ADHD kid can function under more or less the same rules and responsibilities as other students.

Bluemoon_Rising

01-27-2008, 11:13 AM

Don't handcuff me, Bro!

DesertFox

01-27-2008, 11:17 AM

HomeschoolrsRUs

01-27-2008, 01:57 PM

Holmes, I respect your opinion because you are mostly right in what you normally post, but this time I feel you have let your personal feelings override common sense.

Pete,
All things being equal, I would ABSOLUTELY agree with you 100%. But today, things simply AREN'T equal anymore. Had they done what was suggested to me, the "bear hug" thing, and the child had inflicted some personal injury on the teacher/restrainer, or some injury occurred to the child PURELY BY ACCIDENT, you know there'd be a stink to high heaven. Teachers literally HAVE NO recourse for children like this. My heart goes out for the child, it really does -- there but for the grace of God would be my son, as he had real problems when he was 5 -- but lacking ANY support from the school system and the law, the teacher, who makes little enough as it is because some fat-cat up on Administration has to have a new desk every year, doesn't have the ability or wherewithal to withstand or handle a situation like this. If the mental picture of, or the experience of, those handcuffs being on that child causes severe anguish and long-lasting effects, I would argue that the condition of the child probably already began those effects prior to that event.
I know where you're coming from, and as you have stated, I do respect your opinions. We'll have to graciously agree to disagree on this one.

My last words and thoughts are for the child ... I pray there is a Divinie Intervention that allows this child to achieve a normal life, success and achievement in the future, and stability and peace for the rest of his life.

BabyBeastie

01-27-2008, 02:12 PM

TeenageRepublican

01-27-2008, 02:28 PM

ADHD/ADD is a response to boredom. Kids minds are like little sponges. They'll absorb everything you put in it. But if you fill it with B.S. or if you're not an engaging or challenging teacher, they'll get bored.

ADHD isn't a response. I've had it all my life. Before I got on medication, I could barely do anything without being distracted. One time, in 3rd grade, I went to school forgetting to put on a shoe.
For those that say ADHD is caused by parents not punishing kids, let me tell you something. My dad was super-strict back then. If you pissed him off by doing something bad, he would come after you with a belt. He doesn't do that anymore, he has more self-control, but I still was forgetting and loosing things.
When I got on the medication, I had a brand new outlook on life. I could control myself and I could remember things. I couldn't do that before, it was wonderful. I went from a D-F to student to a A-B student immediatly.

Sure is a fat little, girlie looking ****er, ain't he. Kid has a mental problem.

Memo to "boy's" parents: Quit feeding him sugar and fast food, and you'll see his "ADHD" disappear.

Actually, those have the complete opposite effect on ADHD people. It calms them down.

BabyBeastie

01-27-2008, 03:09 PM

It's funny how this wasn't a problem when I went to grade school. But I agree that severe beatings don't do much for the child.

gnome

01-27-2008, 03:20 PM

It's funny how this wasn't a problem when I went to grade school. But I agree that severe beatings don't do much for the child.

For the sake of research on this very point... are you willing to ballpark that time period? No complaints if you refuse, I understand it's personal information.

Air Force Guy

01-27-2008, 03:25 PM

It's funny how this wasn't a problem when I went to grade school. But I agree that severe beatings don't do much for the child.When you were in grade school you weren't aware of the concepts of psychology and psychiatry...nor the goings-on between parents and teachers with their struggling children.

It has been a problem that was not understood well enough when you were in grade school...assuming you're not a college kid right now.

While I agree that ritalin (et. al.) are over-prescribed to some extent, I am certain that many children AND ADULTS are greatly benefitting from ADD and ADHD medications. I've heard and seen too many instances of kids going from D-F to A-B grades. The personal testimony, like we read above, should be more than compelling enough to cease the generalized badmouthing of meds for treatment.

Taylor1

01-27-2008, 03:26 PM

BabyBeastie

01-27-2008, 07:32 PM

When you were in grade school you weren't aware of the concepts of psychology and psychiatry...nor the goings-on between parents and teachers with their struggling children.

It has been a problem that was not understood well enough when you were in grade school...assuming you're not a college kid right now.

While I agree that ritalin (et. al.) are over-prescribed to some extent, I am certain that many children AND ADULTS are greatly benefitting from ADD and ADHD medications. I've heard and seen too many instances of kids going from D-F to A-B grades. The personal testimony, like we read above, should be more than compelling enough to cease the generalized badmouthing of meds for treatment.When I was in school, I interacted with all of my classmates. They weren't all drugged up and they could pay attention in class. Class just wasn't boring. But today they give people pills for EVERYTHING. As for the improvement in grades, one shouldn't assume that those little pills make kids smarter. They don't. They just ruin their drive to do better.

Chalk one up for the drug companies for targeting kids with the slightest bit of intelligence (that is beyond his classmates) to be held back and kept in check with a little pill.

How many home schooled kids take Ritalin?

gnome

01-27-2008, 07:44 PM

When I was in school, I interacted with all of my classmates. They weren't all drugged up and they could pay attention in class. Class just wasn't boring. But today they give people pills for EVERYTHING. As for the improvement in grades, one shouldn't assume that those little pills make kids smarter. They don't. They just ruin their drive to do better.

Chalk one up for the drug companies for targeting kids with the slightest bit of intelligence (that is beyond his classmates) to be held back and kept in check with a little pill.

How many home schooled kids take Ritalin?

I don't get you at all. It's the ones that AREN'T medicated (or have a different problem) that have trouble paying attention. How does an anti-ADHD drug ruin one's drive to do better or hold someone back?

Bear in mind you're contradicting personal experience here.

BabyBeastie

01-27-2008, 08:15 PM

I don't get you at all. It's the ones that AREN'T medicated (or have a different problem) that have trouble paying attention. How does an anti-ADHD drug ruin one's drive to do better or hold someone back?

Bear in mind you're contradicting personal experience here.The medication is supposed to help kids who cannot (or will not, for whatever reason) pay attention, pay attention. We didn't have that problem when I was in school. Class wasn't boring. But today, when some kid doesn't pay attention in class, they give him a pill. And he's usually a white kid with above average intelligence. The pills settle him down. The bad grades aren't from being stupid. They're from wanting more challenging courses. Kids have to be challenged or else they lose interest. It's easy to get bad grades if you don't do the work. It doesn't mean you're stupid.

You've never gone up to your teacher and said that your work or your class was too easy? You've never felt as if school wasn't challenging? In my old school, if you were an exceptional student, they pulled you aside and gave you more challenging work to do. Work that made you think. They had a way to measure a child's reading ability, and we were way beyond grade school level.

But if I had been born in the 1980s and went to "publik screwel," I would most assuredly have been given Ritalin.

CONSERVATIVE HERO

01-27-2008, 09:34 PM

Color me insensitive but I don't see the big deal. He got off light IMO. I'd have been paddled (and was more than once), and then once I got home, whipped again for making someone else go through the trouble of paddling me.

TeenageRepublican

01-27-2008, 09:48 PM

I've got ADD but not ADHD huge difference, I don't blame the cops for handcuffing an out of control ADHD kid. But then, some ADHD kids aren't bad at all I know a lot personally they seem to outgrow it in their teen years.

Actually, most doctors agree that ADHD and ADD are pretty much the same thing. It's recent, so you know, whatever.

DeclinetoState

01-27-2008, 09:55 PM

IMO, if he's throwing a tantrum he needs to be spanked or held down until he brings that part of it under control. True ADHD needs medicine, but it still requires SOME effort on the part of the individual.In most parts of the developed Western world, corporal punishment (i.e., anything involving hitting) is illegal.

CONSERVATIVE HERO

01-27-2008, 09:58 PM

Think about this, what recourse does a teacher have with an out of control child? What CAN they do? There's so little they're allowed to do, they certainly can't TOUCH the child, can't spank him, now they can't restrain him, so how are they SUPPOSED to deal with him WITHOUT endangering themselves of a lawsuit?

This makes me :flame:
Holmes, I respect your opinion because you are mostly right in what you normally post, but this time I feel you have let your personal feelings override common sense.

A five year old child is a product of his/her environment (parents) or medical condition.
In such cases I suggest applying the proper environment as a remedy, namely the environment of pain, meaning burning his little ass up.

I understand Home's grief. I was just discussing that recently with a friend of mine who's a preschool teacher. She'd mentioned the kids were particularly bad one day. We started talking about how the policy of schools today makes education difficult if not impossible. If a child refuses to listen what leverage does the teacher really have? "Quit being noisy or..... I'll tell you to quit being noisy again?

:question:

This is a different society today. We're no longer on the "Christian standard" morally so to speak. Without moral standards as consistent as they once were among the citizenry disciplining a youth has become far more difficult.

I'm speaking without having seen the vid though. It won't load for me for some reason.

Wolfcounsel

01-28-2008, 07:08 AM

I finally saw the video. The little fruitcake reminds me of another fruitcake who went wild on his older sister, kicking and punching her. I finally had to step in and help him get friendly with the ground. He meekly stayed there until his father got him. Amazing how calm he got after he got "grounded". Oh yes, he suffers from those attention things. Sometimes their medication does not kick in or something?

Rhino

01-28-2008, 08:11 AM

BB, I suggest you study the subject more. You seem to be a victim of a lot of hype, without much fact. ADD existed when you went to school. They just didn't know what it was. Same for me, and I'm ADD. Luckily, I'm borderline, and managed to do pretty good on life despite their no knowing what it was when I was a kid. And the medicine does not make them "drugged up", make them smarter, or destroy their drive in any way.

gnome

01-28-2008, 01:10 PM

The medication is supposed to help kids who cannot (or will not, for whatever reason) pay attention, pay attention. We didn't have that problem when I was in school. Class wasn't boring. But today, when some kid doesn't pay attention in class, they give him a pill. And he's usually a white kid with above average intelligence. The pills settle him down. The bad grades aren't from being stupid. They're from wanting more challenging courses. Kids have to be challenged or else they lose interest. It's easy to get bad grades if you don't do the work. It doesn't mean you're stupid.

There is truth in what you say, but it does not relate to the case of ADHD. My parents went to medication as the last resort for me. While I was most strongly affected, the "challenge" of the work or activities was not what was holding me back. It was a total inability to stay focused on tasks I hadn't selected for myself, and restrain from speaking or acting on impulses.

In fact, it wasn't until I was medicated that I was able to take on more challenging work. All throughout my schooling I was pulled aside and given more challenging work than most of my peers. As a result I got far more out of public education than most students do.

The medication did not control me. It enabled me to control myself. I still had to want to. I still had to choose my goals and interests.

Air Force Guy

01-28-2008, 01:29 PM

There is truth in what you say, but it does not relate to the case of ADHD. My parents went to medication as the last resort for me. While I was most strongly affected, the "challenge" of the work or activities was not what was holding me back. It was a total inability to stay focused on tasks I hadn't selected for myself, and restrain from speaking or acting on impulses.

In fact, it wasn't until I was medicated that I was able to take on more challenging work. All throughout my schooling I was pulled aside and given more challenging work than most of my peers. As a result I got far more out of public education than most students do.

The medication did not control me. It enabled me to control myself. I still had to want to. I still had to choose my goals and interests.That's pretty much my understanding of the issue. BB, if you can imagine a person sitting down to watch TV and someone else in the room is changing the channels every couple of minutes, imagine how long your interest in the TV set would last...not for long. The "interesting" channels would whizz right by the kid (or adult) no matter how interested they were in the subject. Early meds did make zombies out of the kids. Today's meds, as more than a few will testify, will make you more like Speedy Gonzales---to the point of not being able to sleep at night because you're still at warp speed while everyone else is winding down.
Yes, impulsive behavior has to be brought under control another way beside medication--spankings, counselling, TEASPOT (take everything away for a short period of time) punishment. TEASPOT is very effective against rebellious teens. It is the 'secret' behind those radio commercials where the advertiser guarantees you he can help you get your kid under control. (You'd be amazed at how detailed the word EVERYTHING can be in a teen's life (for corrective purposes).

Rhino

01-28-2008, 01:40 PM

Yes, impulsive behavior has to be brought under control another way beside medication--spankings, counselling, TEASPOT (take everything away for a short period of time) punishment. TEASPOT is very effective against rebellious teens. It is the 'secret' behind those radio commercials where the advertiser guarantees you he can help you get your kid under control. (You'd be amazed at how detailed the word EVERYTHING can be in a teen's life (for corrective purposes).We weren't speaking of rebellious teens. We were speaking of ADD. What you suggest doesn't work on ADD kids. Believe me, it's been tried more times than can be counted.

By the way, are you aware that you didn't quote BB's post? Your response addressed BB, but you quoted gnome.

Air Force Guy

01-28-2008, 01:46 PM

We weren't speaking of rebellious teens. We were speaking of ADD. What you suggest doesn't work on ADD kids. Believe me, it's been tried more times than can be counted.

By the way, are you aware that you didn't quote BB's post? Your response addressed BB, but you quoted gnome.I quoted Gnome's because I agreed with the guy.

I shifted gears in the reply to indicate that impulsive (not ADD) behavior was remedied by non-chemical responses.

Rhino

01-28-2008, 01:51 PM

Okay. Got it.

gnome

01-28-2008, 02:49 PM

That's pretty much my understanding of the issue. BB, if you can imagine a person sitting down to watch TV and someone else in the room is changing the channels every couple of minutes, imagine how long your interest in the TV set would last...not for long. The "interesting" channels would whizz right by the kid (or adult) no matter how interested they were in the subject. Early meds did make zombies out of the kids. Today's meds, as more than a few will testify, will make you more like Speedy Gonzales---to the point of not being able to sleep at night because you're still at warp speed while everyone else is winding down.

I think it would be more accurate to say that some of the current medications (Ritalin, Concerta, Adderol) cause an even greater spike in hyperactivity if allowed to wear off. When I was a kid the meds were like this, and the resolution was to time my doses so that they wore off at less important times of day (where behavioral approaches substituted more easily for maintaining control during, say, family time). It can also be helped by dosage regulation. Once they had me fully refined I was taking them only before school and events, and the rest of the time I was still pretty ok.

Even more recently there are some that lack even that effect. One is called Strattera and it is also used to counter adult ADHD. It stabilizes in the system and thus doesn't wear off unless the patient stops taking it for a few days.

Yes, impulsive behavior has to be brought under control another way beside medication--spankings, counselling, TEASPOT (take everything away for a short period of time) punishment. TEASPOT is very effective against rebellious teens. It is the 'secret' behind those radio commercials where the advertiser guarantees you he can help you get your kid under control. (You'd be amazed at how detailed the word EVERYTHING can be in a teen's life (for corrective purposes).I have found it quite useful to realize just how many privileges a child has that can be taken away. Often the older they get the more you can find to work with. I don't spank my stepchildren, not because I have particular moral objection to it, but because there are far more effective techniques for correction.

Gonzo67

01-28-2008, 03:08 PM

Well, regardless of the existence or non-existence of ADD and ADHD, it's a moot point.

I actually have to disagree with my own father on this one...

Fact: They are referring to the kids actions as "a tantrum" and "acting up"... TOTALLY misleading.

Fact: As reported, the kid was PUNCHING his teacher, swinging wildly. Hitting school aids, and slapped his principal across the face. In addition to running into a corner and throwing things...

This is not a "tantrum" or "acting up" this is out-right assault. Granted, the kid is 5 years old, and has no concept that this kind of behavior is actually a crime, and I am NOT suggesting he be tried as an adult and locked away in prison for 15 to 20.

But to say it is a "tantrum" and "acting up" Well, I guess that little "tantrum" we called Vietnam was just some "upset people acting up".

Personally, I would have hog tied the little s**t and locked his butt in a closet till his parents could come get him.

Am I cruel? Insensitive? I don't think so. Sure, an adult can take a punch from a 5 year old without being hurt... but what about the OTHER kids in that class? What happens when THEY get punched and beat by this kid?

Nope... a curtain chord and a locked closet for the little snot-dripper till mommy and daddy come to take him home.

Rhino

01-28-2008, 03:09 PM

None of the meds ever made them zombies, because they're stimulants. The only way to hype them up would be to abuse the medicine, because the doses are too low for even normal people to notice most of the time. And if the dosage schedule is followed correctly, there should be no sleep interruption. The only time that usually happens is if the pills are taken too late in the day, or if the slow release variety of pills are not metabolised correctly. The latter is something a doctor would have to correct, but some parents don't think to tell their doctors that it's a problem. The most common side effect that most notice is appetite suppression. That was somewhat of a problem for my oldest son, because he was a beanpole even without the meds. But the 'zombie', 'zoned out', drugged up' claims are nothing more than hype. I never even noticed my medication, which is somewhat of a double whammy for an ADD person. I often could not remember if I had taken the pill or not, being ADD, and there was no outward sign to indicate if I had. My son had the same problem.

Rhino

01-28-2008, 03:11 PM

Am I cruel? Insensitive? I don't think so.I don't either. Whatever her condition, or effectiveness of medication, that kind of behavior can't be allowed. She is as much a danger to herself at that point as she is to others.

gnome

01-28-2008, 05:47 PM

In light of Gonzo's point... isn't the "Helplessness" of the teacher untrue? Even with all the sensitivity over how to handle children, teachers are allowed to act with reasonable self-defense.

Air Force Guy

01-28-2008, 06:03 PM

In light of Gonzo's point... isn't the "Helplessness" of the teacher untrue? Even with all the sensitivity over how to handle children, teachers are allowed to act with reasonable self-defense.Today I sat and listened to MALE teachers discussing what to do if kids got in a fight at their school. Granted, this is a unique situation as there hasn't been a significant, knockdowndragout fight at their school in 4 or 5 years but these teachers have taught at private and public schools and came to a consensus that they don't get paid enough money to be UFC refs...and don't have enough money to retain a kickbutt lawyer to fend off the parents of the kid or kids involved (if anything went wrong during their intervention). Yes, it was a Jr/Sr. High crew of teachers and not elementary...but they swore it wouldn't make a difference unless one kid was absolutely getting beaten into unconsciousness. Their tactic? Verbally calm the fighting kids until a dean or (someone with ballz) entered the room to take responsibility for adult actions.

I looked them square in the eye and said, "there's no way I could face a parent afterward, whose kid's face looked bloody and flattened, and explain to them how I didn't "feeeeeeeeeeeeel comfortable" lifting a hand against either student...and you KNOW that a decent parent is going to demand accountability for how this was allowed to happen to their kid with adult supervision in the immediate area.

Age of kid aside, if you're teaching in a school that doesn't have your back, IN WRITING, before such incidents arise, don't take a job there if you're not comfortable watching a kid (or kids) get seriously abused by bullies. I am convinced that their school did NOT have their back if they'd tried to restrain the aggressor/winner. Sad.

DesertFox

01-28-2008, 07:31 PM

No school "has your back" over such things. This is the single major reason that teachers join the NEA -- because at very little monthly cost it provides a million bucks of insurance and legal representation.

It's all very well for an outsider cavalierly to say something on the order of, "So go somewhere else where they DO cover your back!" NO school covers your back. No district does, either. They can't afford to. One asshole wins an expensive lawsuit against them and they then become targets for others with deep pockets. Meanwhile, you don't have a job, the mortgage payment is due, the car insurance is due and it's getting old eating beans every meal.

HomeschoolrsRUs

01-28-2008, 07:45 PM

In light of Gonzo's point... isn't the "Helplessness" of the teacher untrue? Even with all the sensitivity over how to handle children, teachers are allowed to act with reasonable self-defense.

You've got to be kidding?! Define "reasonable". Tell me how "reasonable" the headline "Teacher Acts With Reasonable Self-Defense Against 5-Year Old" will play to the masses. ANY measure of self-defense will be spun, twisted, and turned when it hits the papers and airwaves, and that teacher's life as an educator would be O-V-E-R.

I'm more inclined to agree with Gonzo ... this kid was physically acting in a violent manner, not simply "acting out". If we can't abide the idea of handcuffs on a 5-year old, how in the WORLD do you think "reasonable self-defense" is going to go over? Prohibiting this child through restraint from continuing violent behavior IS reasonable self-defense, yet it's still being spun as UNreasonable.

gnome

01-28-2008, 08:08 PM

You've got to be kidding?! Define "reasonable". Tell me how "reasonable" the headline "Teacher Acts With Reasonable Self-Defense Against 5-Year Old" will play to the masses. ANY measure of self-defense will be spun, twisted, and turned when it hits the papers and airwaves, and that teacher's life as an educator would be O-V-E-R.

I'm more inclined to agree with Gonzo ... this kid was physically acting in a violent manner, not simply "acting out". If we can't abide the idea of handcuffs on a 5-year old, how in the WORLD do you think "reasonable self-defense" is going to go over? Prohibiting this child through restraint from continuing violent behavior IS reasonable self-defense, yet it's still being spun as UNreasonable.

I think it would depend on what the teacher actually did, honestly. We can speculate all we want... but I should point out that at the core we agree that staff should not have to use a hands-off policy with a violent student of any age.

HomeschoolrsRUs

01-28-2008, 08:13 PM

I think it would depend on what the teacher actually did, honestly.

No, not really, actually. All it requires is lack of context, of which the MSM is extremely guilty of employing. Truth isn't nearly as interesting, nor is it as big of a ratings-buster than a little over-exaggeration mixed in with a generous helping of righteous indignation. But it's not exclusive to the mighty media machine, just look at Nifong and the Duke so-called "rape" case.

Gonzo67

01-29-2008, 03:28 AM

In light of Gonzo's point... isn't the "Helplessness" of the teacher untrue?

The "helplessness of the teacher untrue?"

Not in the least. We live in a society that PRIDES itself on the lack of personal responsibility.

Did you just shoot your neighbor? Well, that's ok, it wasn't YOUR fault, that gun never should have gone off while it was pointed at someone just because you happened to pull the trigger. We'll sue Smith & Wesson.

Did you spill that HOT coffee in your lap and burn your cooter? Well, that's not YOUR fault, let's sue McDonalds for not warning you that your HOT coffee was actually "hot".

No matter WHAT that teacher or school did, they were going to get crucified.

Did you SPANK that child!?!? How dare you, that's CHILD ABUSE!

Did you slap hand-cuffs on him? My god man! He's only 5 years old! Just because he's beat the hell out of half the school already, that's NO REASON to restrain him!

Did you pin his arms to his side? Oh my goodness! Inappropriate "touching" You pervert! We'll have you arrested if you don't pay us up front!

To most liberal parents, and with the way this kid behaves in public, it's probably a safe bet his parents ARE liberals, children are not "children". They are "Potential Lawsuits". They are a "potential income through litigation". Period. It's all about the pampers. Well, pampers lined with $100 bills that is...

No, it doesn't matter WHAT course this school took in dealing with this out of control child, it doesn't matter WHAT their policy is. They were screwed before that brats parents shoved him out of the SUV in front of the school house.

"Have a good day at school today sweety... bring mommy back a law-suit!"

CONSERVATIVE HERO

01-29-2008, 04:30 AM

Wow, I just was able to finally view the video. :rotflmbo:

I rolled my eyes when it got to the chick who said, "How you gonna put handcuffs on a 5 year old, you know the impact that's gonna have on his mind?"

He'll be fine b****! Give...me...a break. They could be teaching this kid to be a pole puffer all day long, and that's just swell, but a little discipline will result in irrevocable harm to his suddenly delicate psychological state? The kid's punching his teacher but he's suddenly fine china when someone dares to take control?

:rolleyes:

I think the child's being cuffed might have some beneficial psychological effects. For example, it will teach him that misbehaving results in loss of freedoms (which should be happening without him being cuffed). Because incarceration is what awaits people who assault others as adults.

Seriously, what were they supposed to do though? Just allow the child to destroy the whole day for all of the other children, the faculty, because his parents wouldn't like it if he were restrained? Their child was punching people for pete's sake.

I have to say the only thing I don't like (not really in this incident) is people's growing reliance of police (and in effect the state) to do their parenting for them. Ever watch cops? I've seen parents call the police to come and tell their misbehaving children to behave. But this one disapproves of such. This cop was damned if she did, damned if she didn't.

To most liberal parents, and with the way this kid behaves in public, it's probably a safe bet his parents ARE liberals, children are not "children". They are "Potential Lawsuits". They are a "potential income through litigation". Period. It's all about the pampers. Well, pampers lined with $100 bills that is...

.....

"Have a good day at school today sweety... bring mommy back a law-suit!"
I was talking to a friend a while back, and she was telling me how some relatives of hers sued the school for their child falling out of a swing, and were awarded money. (It did result, being that she fell on her head on concrete or whatnot, in some kind of permanent damage. She says she's just not the same.) She got upset at me for saying I wouldn't have sued for that. I told her I was basing my opinion on the words she'd used to describe it. Was it the result of some sort of gross negligence on the school's part or did she just "fall out" of the swing? I know it's terrible this happened and all, but can you pretend these people aren't your relatives for a second, and consider that the school might not be responsible for some fluke occurrence?

It's because of stuff like this that kids don't have playgrounds anymore. I used to hang upside down from the monkey bars, jump off of swings on purpose, and have fights with other kids all the time (like, he man fights, not real ones). Now all kids can do is just stand and stare at each other. Don't play kickball, yo might fall and trip, and then kickball goes bye bye.

Air Force Guy

01-29-2008, 09:31 AM

I think it would depend on what the teacher actually did, honestly. We can speculate all we want... but I should point out that at the core we agree that staff should not have to use a hands-off policy with a violent student of any age.
Does it have to be "violent" behavior in order for a teacher to firmly take hold of a student and get control/attention?

Examples:
Kid is about to pull a dangerous prank within a second or two
Boy is leaning far into girls bathroom and spooking girls, screams heard for 2 city blocks.
Kid is threatening violent action but hasn't done anything yet...though your judgment says his violence is imminent.
Student has weapon but has not brandished it menacingly...yet.

gnome

01-29-2008, 02:17 PM

Air Force Guy

01-29-2008, 02:22 PM

If you're asking my opinion, all but the last would be appropriate for some kind of physical intervention.

In the last case, I'd start with demanding the student turn over the weapon, and the need for physical intervention would depend on the student's response.I would think so too but I've listened to stories where faculty/staff were mildly to strongly reprimanded in each of these cases.

How does a senior administrator make such a bad judgment call against a faculty or staff member when they weren't even there? Sometimes, no amount of verbal or written recall can convey the "act now or perish" impluse that adults go through in dangerous situations.

The answer probably lies in some kind of Use-of-Force training for teachers conducted by local law enforcement over the summer.