Memo to My Freecer Friends

[Maggie_T]

Ok, guys. As far as I'm concerned, it's over. What with Mitt dropping out of the presidential race, it really makes no difference to me who the bloody hell wins the WH. We lost this election. And when I say 'we,' I mean CONSERVATIVES. We lost the general elections for the White House. Pity that.

So. We're left with John "Ted Kennedy's Ass-Kissing" McCain and Mike "open Borders" Huckabee. Lovely. We might as well have only Hillary and Obama running for prez.

I could say so many things, but at this point, it doesn't matter because it would all be irrelevant. So, all I'll say is that I cannot vote for any of those two counterfeit conservatives. Therefore, I will fill in a name for president on the ballot (and I might go full-rebel mode and write in Mickey Mouse) and then I will vote for the entire slate of 'pubs, state- and local-wise. Please remember that since we won't have the WH, CONgress becomes all that much important. So, if you don't want to vote for either of the liberals that the Republican Country Club Aristocrats sloshed on us, remember that we have a lot of other good candidates to vote for for CONgress and state elections. We need to have some sort of conservative representation in CONgress if we want to have the slightest chance of prebventing Hillary/Obama/McCain from totally obliterating our Constitution.

And that's all I have to say, my friends. This has been the most catastrophic election in all of my 15 years of living in the USA. I don't care if the dems run Karl Marx rescucitated as long as conservatives have a good candidate to counteract that. We do not have that choice this time.

I tried to do my duty by my beloved country of adoption by warning my American brother and sisters of the dangers of leftism. I was met with ridicule and contempt, even by some of my (allegedly) fellow conservatives. Americans decided to sell their country down the river. So if my brothers and sisters want to hand the country to the left in a silver platter, I will have to swallow hard and put up with it. As someone once said to me "Why do you even care? You weren't even born here."

I landed my dream job, I'm going through training, and having a ball. I have my husband, my family, a good job. I think I'll sit out politics this time, and just pray to God that He may give this great and wonderful country another chance in 4 or 8 years.

Bless you, my friends. God save America.

[Jack_Savage]

I landed my dream job, I'm going through training, and having a ball. I have my husband, my family, a good job. I think I'll sit out politics this time, and just pray to God that He may give this great and wonderful country another chance in 4 or 8 years.

Bless you, my friends. God save America.

Well said.

[maxparrish]

Ok, guys. As far as I'm concerned, it's over. What with Mitt dropping out of the presidential race, it really makes no difference to me who the bloody hell wins the WH. We lost this election.

...And that's all I have to say, my friends. This has been the most catastrophic election in all of my 15 years of living in the USA. I don't care if the dems run Karl Marx rescucitated as long as conservatives have a good candidate to counteract that. We do not have that choice this time.

I tried to do my duty by my beloved country of adoption by warning my American brother and sisters of the dangers of leftism. I was met with ridicule and contempt, even by some of my (allegedly) fellow conservatives.

Americans decided to sell their country down the river. So if my brothers and sisters want to hand the country to the left in a silver platter, I will have to swallow hard and put up with it. As someone once said to me "Why do you even care? You weren't even born here."

I landed my dream job, I'm going through training, and having a ball. I have my husband, my family, a good job. I think I'll sit out politics this time, and just pray to God that He may give this great and wonderful country another chance in 4 or 8 years.

Bless you, my friends. God save America.

Why do "you even care"? Well, because you are an American, and not by accident. You have, like so many before us, come here to be Crevaquer's "new man".

"He is an American, who leaving behind him all his ancient prejudices and manners, receives new ones from the new mode of life he has embraced, the new government he obeys, and the new rank he holds. The American is a new man, who acts upon new principles...."

And as an American you are united with peers by the principles in a shared civic religion known as "America", as Chesterton put it: "the only nation in the world that is founded on a creed," one set forth with "theological lucidity in the Declaration of Independence." ...America is "a nation with the soul of a church."

Maggie, we care because we care deeply about our Creed and our church, our promise of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". We care because as new people, we are united by a civic faith in our own people's virtue, and the promise of those who came before us.

Many 'Americans' are little more than legal accidents of birth, but just as many are truly American in their soul. They are awed and appreciative that that liberty and freedom are the precious providential promise of God alone, of the inalienable rights that are held by virtue of our being his creation - regardless of race, creed, or nation.

We Americans, we "new men", care because we see the promise of a great nation, of the sacrifice of millions before us, now being squandered, if not stolen. We see our liberties slowly crushed under a government of officials and judges, of civil masters, who daily draw new limits around our lives. We care because our freedom to keep the fruits of our labor, to secure our borders for the common defense, to share the bounty of our land within our Republic being laughed at and ignored, if not under a savaging assualt.

We care because it is our rights, our identity...we are Americans and we cannot be such without defending our values against our enemies, domestic and foreign.

It is our land and our republic Maggie, and it is up to us to do what we can to keep it. There are many, including John McCain, who do not agree. He does not value or understand free speech, nor the free market, or an America people as a civic compact, one protected by borders. He does not value the oath of citizenship nor understand its meaning. He is an American by accident and a former military man parental expectations, not by thought or understanding.

So we real Americans need to care, or cease being Americans. How could we not?

[Wolfcounsel]

We the people can make McVain follow the Constitution, if we have the balls to do it. The same for the other assholes if they win.

A word to the future president--

Follow and protect the Constitution! It's the oath you will swear upon.

[Beowulf]

Well said, Maggie. I won't be voting for any Democrat or McPain. I'll take my chanced that God will keep us a country to vote for in 2012.

[DoctorDoom]

I'll take my chanced that God will keep us a country to vote for in 2012.Given that our culture has all but told God to piss off and get out of our faces, I would not be surprised if He replies, "Thy will be done," followed by removing His hand of guidance and protection from us.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

[Beowulf]

Thanks for pissing in my Cornflakes, Doc! *sighs*

[DoctorDoom]

Brer Beo, I have the same hope that you do, but it must be tempered with reality. We don't know God's plans for the future, and we must have faith that He does only what is right. However, God is a master of Tough Love.

Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

God may very well allow us to suffer the consequences of our rebelliousness, to show us the folly of doing what is right in our own eyes.

[Beowulf]

Still not easy to accept although you're right. Yes, God does recognize who does right and stands up for it.

[DoctorDoom]

Let's pray that we are not at the point that Judah had reached when King Josiah reigned.

2 Kings 23:25 And like unto him was there no king before him, that turned to the LORD with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there any like him.
26 Notwithstanding the LORD turned not from the fierceness of his great wrath, wherewith his anger was kindled against Judah, because of all the provocations that Manasseh had provoked him withal.
27 And the LORD said, I will remove Judah also out of my sight, as I have removed Israel, and will cast off this city Jerusalem which I have chosen, and the house of which I said, My name shall be there.

IMO, we're not there yet, but ...

[The_Elucidator]

EXACTLY what Doc said in 6, 8 and 10!!!!!

[BuckeyeMike]

We the people can make McVain follow the Constitution, if we have the balls to do it. The same for the other assholes if they win.

A word to the future president--

Follow and protect the Constitution! It's the oath you will swear upon.


We haven't done too good a job with the present occupant of the Oval Office. We may have stopped his amnesty bullshit (for the time being), but we still haven't been able to get the son of a bitch to close and protect our borders as he is Constitutionally obligated to do. His "Oath of Office" says he will do this.....did he? Hellllll NOOO!!!!

[Rhino]

:lol: Mags, I think you use the :flame: smiley more than everyone else here combined! I love ya, darlin!

[Wolfcounsel]

"We haven't done too good a job with the present occupant of the Oval Office. We may have stopped his amnesty bullshit (for the time being), but we still haven't been able to get the son of a bitch to close and protect our borders as he is Constitutionally obligated to do. His "Oath of Office" says he will do this.....did he? Hellllll NOOO!!!!" --BuckeyeMike

I agree. We should have bombarded this next to useless public servant with mail up the yin yang. May his legacy be the world's biggest Mexican ass kisser next to McCain, and the greatest lover of the Cult from Hell, his darling that he calls Religion of Peace! Screw all these anti-Americans!<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[BuckeyeMike]

He's next-to-useless to us citizens..........but I'm pretty sure he's usefull to somebody.....they just don't happen to be on "our side"!

[Longhorn_Platinum]

Rhino:
:lol: Mags, I think you use the :flame: smiley more than everyone else here combined! I love ya, darlin!

:moo: <~~~~And I use this one more than all others combined. Maggie, you really should use more :moo:s than :flame:s. It will help your blood pressure.

:moo: Hey, Rhino, why don't you replace the :flame: with the :moo: in that array to the right of the text window? It will do us all a lot of good.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Hey, Rhino, why don't you replace the :flame: with the :moo: in that array to the right of the text window? It will do us all a lot of good." --Rhino

I say no. Anger out in the open is better than stress. Getting rid of stress is good for people. I say it reduces potential cancers to zero, but that's me.

[DoctorDoom]

<table align="center" bgcolor="#eeeeff" bordercolor="bbbbbb" border="8" cellpadding="8"><tr><td><div align="center"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/DocDoom777/HumorPix/Stress.gif"/></div></td></tr></table>

[terri]

As always Maggie, a heart felt post.

I'd also like to say to everybody here, that if you haven't, please think hard about the best way to shelter and protect your assets. I do believe at the very least we'll be looking at a tax increase of large proportions. This will trickle down, slay jobs, escalate the cost of oil and other consumer goods, and well you know the drill. Please look at your investments and protect, protect, protect.

As for politics, well I guess we all found out exactly what the elites in the GOP think of us. I guess in their arrogance they assume we can be insulted at will, be slapped around like a desensitized, abused spouse and still get our votes. With me, the bastards assume wrong. I'll not send the RNC another dime until Conservatives are once more treated with respect in good times as well as bad. John McCain, the man who called me a nativist, and anti immigrant can go to hell. He will never get my vote.

I do however believe I'll pound the pavement for conservatives running for Congress. The house and senate seem to be the best place to make a stand for Conservatism.

Also, if you guys would be so kind...... My dh and I are trying to sell our house here in Indy and the market is flat. I would covet your kind prayers. We want to sell and move home to be nearer our family in Kansas.

Thanks guys and remember, protect your assets as best you can. A storm is coming, but we'll be fine if we prepare for it.

[MrSanity]

Mag - we saw it coming from the very beginning. Giuliani, McCain, and Romney were the front-runners, none of whom have a history of solid conservative credentials.

We have no conservatives in this country right now that have done anything remarkable and earth-shattering to speak of, and that's why this is "the best" we can get. The closest of the three is Mitt Romney, who in my opinion, would be difficult to elect due to his flip-flops on a variety of social issues. We weeded conservatives out when we stayed home in '06. The remainder of the country was dumb enough to spit in their faces.

Huckster was a fraudulent "conservative" from the get-go. The man is a nanny-stater who just so happens to make nice with the religious right. How else do you explain his failure to cut, or even stabilize the size of government under his reign in Arkansas? No, the nanny state of Arkansas was what you could've expected from Hillary.

And oh, he knows so much better than the judge, the jury, and the executioner, doesn't he? That's why he was a pardon king, though he never spent an ounce of his time in the courtroom where the trials were held. But he knows better because he knows how to live like a king of the second century A.D. and get away with it. THANK GOD he is not our candidate. If McPain is superior to any other candidate, it's the Huckster in the holy robe.

I'm going to plug my nose and vote for McCain this time around. If he spends four years turning this country into a sanctuary nation for illegal aliens, and if he tries to slam global warming hysteria down our throats, he won't be so lucky when he begs us for a second term. If he can clean up Iraq and bring our enemies to justice, it'll be a different story. I'm not going to let my contempt for his disloyalty to the conservative movement allow a Demmunist RAT to take control of the country. Not this time around.

Your choice is between a Republicrat and a Demmunist. I'm not willing to take a chance in handing our troops over to those bastards who hate the military and hate the very idea of winning in Iraq. They've been very clear about what they would do: SURRENDER.

What else?

They would appoint infanticidal maniacs to the Supreme Court. They would silence free speech. They would cram "hate-crime" laws down our throats. They would force you to celebrate sodomocracy. They would drive business out of the country. They would strip away the right to bear arms. They would destroy our military.

[MrSanity]

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.It's interesting you quote these verses. They are thought to be an inspiration for the rhetoric found in the Declaration of Independence - the laws of nature and of natures's God - and so forth.

[Nutrider99]

Given that our culture has all but told God to piss off and get out of our faces, I would not be surprised if He replies, "Thy will be done," followed by removing His hand of guidance and protection from us.
I thought exactly the same thing when New York elected Hillary and then 9/11 happened.

The Republican Party allows democreeps and liberals to vote in our elections, and this season 25% of those who voted in our primaries were not even Republicans. Given that voter fraud is part of the democreep platform, that to me explains why McVain was elected even though he's the poorest possible choice. Until we close the primaries in every state that will allow it, our enemies will continue to select out candidates. As for me, I will vote straight ticket Republican in everything but the presidential race, but I will no longer belong to the Republican Party with that liberal bastard as the party leader.

[The_Elucidator]

We have no conservatives in this country right now that have done anything remarkable and earth-shattering to speak of, and that's why this is "the best" we can get. The closest of the three is Mitt Romney, who in my opinion, would be difficult to elect due to his flip-flops on a variety of social issues. We weeded conservatives out when we stayed home in '06. The remainder of the country was dumb enough to spit in their faces.


Glory halleluiah, I found a needle in the haystack!!! :claps:


Holy cow Sanity; that has been the point I have been trying to make for a long time now!

Conservatives kicked George Allen in the nuts during the '06 election handing the Senate seat over to a freakin pervert, and ELIMINATING him from possible POTUS contention. Approx 1.71 Million people voted for Bush in 04 only 1.16 voted for Allen in '06.

A future contender to run against McCain in the Senate was brushed to the side when JD Hayworth was voted out of office. Many, and I mean many, GOOD conservative 'Pubs were voted out of office in the 06 election. Now the landscape is looking even worse as many others are retiring and nobody wants to step up to the plate.

So in closing; after kicking Allen right square in the nuts in 06, we then proceeded to get 3 SOLID conservatives (Tancredo, Hunter, FDT) and 1 who stayed at a conservative Holiday Inn Express (Romney) to run for POTUS and we refused to send them money to get their campaigns off the ground! All the candidates were broke as hell and conservatives NATION wide sat on their f'n pocket books bitching about the DBM and the "Establishment" trying to force Rudy down our throats. Why? Because we were stinging over the amnesty BS that was being advocated by a FEW in the GOP. It isn't as if the DBM and the RNC was draining our bank accounts with mandated EFT's. It isn't as if we couldn't have signed up for some of these polls to get our voices heard. As much as we want to lay the blame elsewhere, WE helped nominate McCain, not the DBM and not the RNC. I'm sorry but we made our own SHIT sandwich out of sheer stubbornness and arrogance; and now that the snowstorm has hit, it's all we have to eat. Someone tell me where I am wrong.

[MrSanity]

George Allen's "macaca" comment is an example of what could backfire on the left if we infiltrate enough of their Demmunist gatherings in return for their subversion alongside of the Soviet Union and Al Qaeda.

[MrSanity]

All the candidates were broke as hell and conservatives NATION wide sat on their f'n pocket books bitching about the DBM and the "Establishment" trying to force Rudy down our throats. Why? Because we were stinging over the amnesty BS that was being advocated by a FEW in the GOP. It isn't as if the DBM and the RNC was draining our bank accounts with mandated EFT's. It isn't as if we couldn't have signed up for some of these polls to get our voices heard. As much as we want to lay the blame elsewhere, WE helped nominate McCain, not the DBM and not the RNC. I'm sorry but we made our own SHIT sandwich out of sheer stubbornness and arrogance; and now that the snowstorm has hit, it's all we have to eat. Someone tell me where I am wrong.I think a lot of conservatives hung up on the GOP after their party sold out on amnesty and it took THE PEOPLE to shove that bill up McCain and Kennedy's sphincter cannons. Unfortunately, the GOP has made little effort to represent the platform that conservatives have been begging for, and that's why so many of them sat out of the primaries. They don't believe anyone anymore who claims to support border security.

If Tancredo and Hunter became governors or senators, it would light a fire under the GOP for the next generation.

[BabyBeastie]

Ok, guys. As far as I'm concerned, it's over. What with Mitt dropping out of the presidential race, it really makes no difference to me who the bloody hell wins the WH. We lost this election. And when I say 'we,' I mean CONSERVATIVES. We lost the general elections for the White House. Pity that.

So. We're left with John "Ted Kennedy's Ass-Kissing" McCain and Mike "open Borders" Huckabee. Lovely. We might as well have only Hillary and Obama running for prez.

I could say so many things, but at this point, it doesn't matter because it would all be irrelevant. So, all I'll say is that I cannot vote for any of those two counterfeit conservatives. Therefore, I will fill in a name for president on the ballot (and I might go full-rebel mode and write in Mickey Mouse) and then I will vote for the entire slate of 'pubs, state- and local-wise. Please remember that since we won't have the WH, CONgress becomes all that much important. So, if you don't want to vote for either of the liberals that the Republican Country Club Aristocrats sloshed on us, remember that we have a lot of other good candidates to vote for for CONgress and state elections. We need to have some sort of conservative representation in CONgress if we want to have the slightest chance of prebventing Hillary/Obama/McCain from totally obliterating our Constitution.

And that's all I have to say, my friends. This has been the most catastrophic election in all of my 15 years of living in the USA. I don't care if the dems run Karl Marx rescucitated as long as conservatives have a good candidate to counteract that. We do not have that choice this time.

I tried to do my duty by my beloved country of adoption by warning my American brother and sisters of the dangers of leftism. I was met with ridicule and contempt, even by some of my (allegedly) fellow conservatives. Americans decided to sell their country down the river. So if my brothers and sisters want to hand the country to the left in a silver platter, I will have to swallow hard and put up with it. As someone once said to me "Why do you even care? You weren't even born here."

I landed my dream job, I'm going through training, and having a ball. I have my husband, my family, a good job. I think I'll sit out politics this time, and just pray to God that He may give this great and wonderful country another chance in 4 or 8 years.

Bless you, my friends. God save America.God bless you, Maggie.

Live YOUR life.

This politics "B.S." everyday isn't good for anyone. Now that you're back in the workplace, you'll find that people don't sit around and talk about politics. They usually talk about stuff that happened at home or at work. I am happy that you are happy with your new job, with your family and your good life.

This crap we write about on here is pretty much all "B.S." anyway because it doesn't make any difference. We all just end up getting upset about something we cannot change and (to me) it's NOT worth it anymore.

Yes, Maggie, God will have to save us all because it's really out of our hands now. We (as a nation) will have to hit rock bottom before anything will change. I feel bad about having to say that, but I think it's true, too.

[CzechPrince]

Ok, guys. As far as I'm concerned, it's over. What with Mitt dropping out of the presidential race, it really makes no difference to me who the bloody hell wins the WH. We lost this election. And when I say 'we,' I mean CONSERVATIVES. We lost the general elections for the White House. Pity that.

So. We're left with John "Ted Kennedy's Ass-Kissing" McCain and Mike "open Borders" Huckabee. Lovely. We might as well have only Hillary and Obama running for prez.

I could say so many things, but at this point, it doesn't matter because it would all be irrelevant. So, all I'll say is that I cannot vote for any of those two counterfeit conservatives. Therefore, I will fill in a name for president on the ballot (and I might go full-rebel mode and write in Mickey Mouse) and then I will vote for the entire slate of 'pubs, state- and local-wise. Please remember that since we won't have the WH, CONgress becomes all that much important. So, if you don't want to vote for either of the liberals that the Republican Country Club Aristocrats sloshed on us, remember that we have a lot of other good candidates to vote for for CONgress and state elections. We need to have some sort of conservative representation in CONgress if we want to have the slightest chance of prebventing Hillary/Obama/McCain from totally obliterating our Constitution.

And that's all I have to say, my friends. This has been the most catastrophic election in all of my 15 years of living in the USA. I don't care if the dems run Karl Marx rescucitated as long as conservatives have a good candidate to counteract that. We do not have that choice this time.

I tried to do my duty by my beloved country of adoption by warning my American brother and sisters of the dangers of leftism. I was met with ridicule and contempt, even by some of my (allegedly) fellow conservatives. Americans decided to sell their country down the river. So if my brothers and sisters want to hand the country to the left in a silver platter, I will have to swallow hard and put up with it. As someone once said to me "Why do you even care? You weren't even born here."

I landed my dream job, I'm going through training, and having a ball. I have my husband, my family, a good job. I think I'll sit out politics this time, and just pray to God that He may give this great and wonderful country another chance in 4 or 8 years.

Bless you, my friends. God save America.

I understand where you are coming from, but remember, this country is notorious for swinging back and forth between left leaning and right leaning politicians.

America is far more, "conservative" (in the sense you define conservative, a bit different than my own) than any other Western nation on earth, and for years, we have been in a right swing, and now people are just tired of it. They don't like Bush, including people in his own party.

This country is going into a left swing mode, and fast. Eventually, it'll go back the other way. Will it go back as much as it has been? Who knows. That will be the key answer.

[CzechPrince]

George Allen's "macaca" comment is an example of what could backfire on the left if we infiltrate enough of their Demmunist gatherings in return for their subversion alongside of the Soviet Union and Al Qaeda.

No one really likes Allen to much here in Virginia anyway. That's not the reason he lost his Senate seat.

[Kathekon]

Ok, guys. As far as I'm concerned, it's over. What with Mitt dropping out of the presidential race, it really makes no difference to me who the bloody hell wins the WH. We lost this election. And when I say 'we,' I mean CONSERVATIVES. We lost the general elections for the White House. Pity that.

Please remember that since we won't have the WH, CONgress becomes all that much important.

And that's all I have to say, my friends. This has been the most catastrophic election in all of my 15 years of living in the USA. I don't care if the dems run Karl Marx rescucitated as long as conservatives have a good candidate to counteract that. We do not have that choice this time.

I tried to do my duty by my beloved country of adoption by warning my American brother and sisters of the dangers of leftism. I was met with ridicule and contempt, even by some of my (allegedly) fellow conservatives. \
God save America.

Conservatives are supposed to be able to handle imperfection. We deem it the normal and natural condition. Imperfect markets take imperfect information and give us what we need at the best possible price. That is still imperfect but better than anything that would flow from the false hope of academic or bureaucratic omniscience in pursuit if ideological purity and statist perfection.

Reagan was an imperfect candidate though he is now spoken of in near-religious terms by some. Reagan was the first divorced President but the candidate of family values. He did not try to roll back much of the Great Society, never took a shot at significant Social Security reform, retreated under fire from Lebanon (which encouraged jihadis for decades thereafter and established the model that Clinton would perfect in Blackhawk Down). Reagan did not introduce a Constitutional amendment to repeal Roe v. Wade.

He did bring federal taxes back into line and launched a period of unprecedented economic growth, appointed judges who halted the rise of judicial overreach, rebuilt the US military and faced down the greatest external threat to democracy since Xerxes. He brought conservative themes into the political discourse where they had once been excluded. The MSM have still not got over that. It was not perfection but it was pretty damn good.

If a conservative thinks he or she has once glimpsed political perfection, ideological nirvana or a Vision of How It Should Be, it is time to lie down and rethink it all. That is not a conservative outlook. A real conservative makes the best choice possible guided by an abiding respect for freedom, markets and common sense and a corresponding distrust of centralized power and the rhetoric of temporal nirvanas. A conservative expects there will still be problems, challenges and a reason to go to work each day. You do the best you can and that is all life or history expects and it is usually enough.

I and old enough to remember pre-Reagan conservatism. It included a lot of people who were quite content to lose elections as long as their ideological purity was intact. Reagan was the first to actually try to persuade others that conservatism had something to offer. The result was imperfect but one hell of a lot better than what was or what could have been.

Suck it up, take the best item on the menu presented and leave the doomsday rhetoric to Al Gore and the Daily Kos because making the best of imperfect choices is what conservatives do.

PS America does not have "catastrophic elections." We sometimes make bad choices and suffer short-term setbacks as a result but we will always muddle through so long as there are elections and our institutions are intact. Like Reagan, I have great faith in the American project. Though, admittedly, a President Hillary would greatly test that faith.

Cheers.

[DoctorDoom]

This country is going into a left swing mode, and fast.No argument.

Eventually, it'll go back the other way.Not this time. America as we have known it is finished. A tyranny is coming. It will be unstoppable and irreversible. And those who sold their birthrights for pottage will find themselves wailing in anguish to deaf ears.

[CzechPrince]

No argument.

Not this time. America as we have known it is finished. A tyranny is coming. It will be unstoppable and irreversible. And those who sold their birthrights for pottage will find themselves wailing in anguish to deaf ears.

I was too young and the internet was not as popular then, but did you feel this way in the 90's with Clinton I?

[MrSanity]

"Clinton I?"

Oh, gosh. So basically, Hillary is not only the inevitable nominee, but the inevitable president?

I don't think she'll be the nominee. She's had to put millions of her own dollars into this race to compete with Barack Obama. If Romney's campaign taught us anything, it's that you can't buy your way in to the White House.

She is following his footsteps.

[CzechPrince]

"Clinton I?"

Oh, gosh. So basically, Hillary is not only the inevitable nominee, but the inevitable president?

I don't think she'll be the nominee. She's had to put millions of her own dollars into this race to compete with Barack Obama. If Romney's campaign taught us anything, it's that you can't buy your way in to the White House.

She is following his footsteps.

Freudian slip :limp:

I think she's going to take it all. I said that months ago.

[MrSanity]

You scare me.

[Lazarus]

...As someone once said to me "Why do you even care? You weren't even born here."...Isn't it ironic that the reason this nation is going down the drain politically is because it is infested with mental neanderthals like that who "were born here" but don't even have enough interest in the history of this nation to know that this nation was founded on and built by IMMIGRANTS - Immigrants who abandoned their own rotten cultures to come here and embrace and merge with this greatest of all national cultures...

I would gladly trade 10,000 of those "American Idol" neanderthals for a single Maggie any day of the week...

[Suzie]

who abandoned their own rotten cultures to come here and embrace and merge with this greatest of all national cultures...


Legally :btw:

[Lazarus]

Hehehehehe...! I almost added that word myself, Sooz...:D

[Maggie_T]

See? This is why I cannot keep away from FC for too long. Even in my darkest moods, I come here and feel comforted by my friends' wisdom, humor, encouragement. I love you, guys. :hugs:

"He is an American, who leaving behind him all his ancient prejudices and manners, receives new ones from the new mode of life he has embraced, the new government he obeys, and the new rank he holds. The American is a new man, who acts upon new principles...." --Maxparrish



So true, Max. That's the true INCLUSIVE way to think of it. Of course, the "why do you care?" imbecility was sloshed on me by a liberal. Remember liberals? Those morons who swear up and down that they are the most inclusive people in the world? Yeah, this person was one of them. :rolleyes:

Follow and protect the Constitution! It's the oath you will swear upon.-- Wolfcounsel<!-- / message -->

And some forget as soon as they get into the Oval Office.


I won't be voting for any Democrat or McPain. I'll take my chanced that God will keep us a country to vote for in 2012.--Beowulf

Yep. I will continue to do my little bit to help my beloved country of adoption. And I will start by voting good 'pub candidates for all the other official positions.

Given that our culture has all but told God to piss off and get out of our faces, I would not be surprised if He replies, "Thy will be done," followed by removing His hand of guidance and protection from us.

Brer Beo, I have the same hope that you do, but it must be tempered with reality. We don't know God's plans for the future, and we must have faith that He does only what is right. However, God is a master of Tough Love.

God may very well allow us to suffer the consequences of our rebelliousness, to show us the folly of doing what is right in our own eyes.

Let's pray that we are not at the point that Judah had reached when King Josiah reigned.
<!-- / message -->

As usual, our beloved Doc nails it on the head. Our hopes must definitely be tempered with reality. We cannot just sit and wait for Him to perform a miracle. I will continue to pray to Him, most assuredly. But I believe that even God's patience can run dry every once in a while. :sad:

Mags, I think you use the :flame: smiley more than everyone else here combined! I love ya, darlin!

Yep. I think I'll make it my trademark. Together with these other little fellows: :sulk: :sad: :fache: The latter has already made it to my avatar. :biggrin:

Hey, Rhino, why don't you replace the :flame: with the :moo: in that array to the right of the text window? It will do us all a lot of good.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

:eek: Nooooo! Moo, don't do that to me. It's my way of letting steam out. Without my little POd smilies I'd burst like a boiler w/o a safety valve.

I say no. Anger out in the open is better than stress. Getting rid of stress is good for people. I say it reduces potential cancers to zero, but that's me.--Wolfcounsel<!-- / message -->

Quite.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/DocDoom777/HumorPix/Stress.gif

Ok. I need someone to help me put that in my sig line. Pretty please? :dance:

I'd also like to say to everybody here, that if you haven't, please think hard about the best way to shelter and protect your assets. I do believe at the very least we'll be looking at a tax increase of large proportions. This will trickle down, slay jobs, escalate the cost of oil and other consumer goods, and well you know the drill. Please look at your investments and protect, protect, protect.

As for politics, well I guess we all found out exactly what the elites in the GOP think of us. I guess in their arrogance they assume we can be insulted at will, be slapped around like a desensitized, abused spouse and still get our votes. With me, the bastards assume wrong. I'll not send the RNC another dime until Conservatives are once more treated with respect in good times as well as bad. John McCain, the man who called me a nativist, and anti immigrant can go to hell. He will never get my vote.

I do however believe I'll pound the pavement for conservatives running for Congress. The house and senate seem to be the best place to make a stand for Conservatism.

Also, if you guys would be so kind...... My dh and I are trying to sell our house here in Indy and the market is flat. I would covet your kind prayers. We want to sell and move home to be nearer our family in Kansas.

Thanks guys and remember, protect your assets as best you can. A storm is coming, but we'll be fine if we prepare for it.--Terri<!-- / message -->

Ditto to all of the above.

Mr. Sanity wrote:
Mag - we saw it coming from the very beginning. Giuliani, McCain, and Romney were the front-runners, none of whom have a history of solid conservative credentials.

We have no conservatives in this country right now that have done anything remarkable and earth-shattering to speak of, and that's why this is "the best" we can get. The closest of the three is Mitt Romney, who in my opinion, would be difficult to elect due to his flip-flops on a variety of social issues. We weeded conservatives out when we stayed home in '06. The remainder of the country was dumb enough to spit in their faces.

Hon, as Ann Coulter (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=24882) said "At least Mitt flipped and stayed there."

Huckster was a fraudulent "conservative" from the get-go. The man is a nanny-stater who just so happens to make nice with the religious right. How else do you explain his failure to cut, or even stabilize the size of government under his reign in Arkansas? No, the nanny state of Arkansas was what you could've expected from Hillary.

And oh, he knows so much better than the judge, the jury, and the executioner, doesn't he? That's why he was a pardon king, though he never spent an ounce of his time in the courtroom where the trials were held. But he knows better because he knows how to live like a king of the second century A.D. and get away with it. THANK GOD he is not our candidate. If McPain is superior to any other candidate, it's the Huckster in the holy robe.

I honestly think he's going to be McVain's VP, God help us. :rolleyes: Think about it. We'll go from having Bonney and Clyde in the WH, to having Sacco and Vanzetti. Oh, joy.

I'm going to plug my nose and vote for McCain this time around. If he spends four years turning this country into a sanctuary nation for illegal aliens, and if he tries to slam global warming hysteria down our throats, he won't be so lucky when he begs us for a second term. .

Darling, that is EXCATLY what he's going to to. Just wait till he gets together with Ted Kennedy for another catastrophic one on one.

Wanna bet?

Your choice is between a Republicrat and a Demmunist. I'm not willing to take a chance in handing our troops over to those bastards who hate the military and hate the very idea of winning in Iraq. They've been very clear about what they would do: SURRENDER.

What else?

They would appoint infanticidal maniacs to the Supreme Court. They would silence free speech. They would cram "hate-crime" laws down our throats. They would force you to celebrate sodomocracy. They would drive business out of the country. They would strip away the right to bear arms. They would destroy our military.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Again, allow me to quote Ann Coulter (from the same source in the link): "
If Hillary is elected president, we'll have a four-year disaster, with Republicans ferociously opposing her, followed by Republicans zooming back into power, as we did in 1980 and 1994, and 2000. (I also predict more Oval Office incidents with female interns.)

If McCain is elected president, we'll have a four-year disaster, with the Republicans in Congress co-opted by "our" president, followed by 30 years of Democratic rule.

There's your choice, America."

Indeed. I couldn't live with myself knowing I contributed to that.

The Republican Party allows democreeps and liberals to vote in our elections, and this season 25% of those who voted in our primaries were not even Republicans. Given that voter fraud is part of the democreep platform, that to me explains why McVain was elected even though he's the poorest possible choice. Until we close the primaries in every state that will allow it, our enemies will continue to select out candidates. As for me, I will vote straight ticket Republican in everything but the presidential race, but I will no longer belong to the Republican Party with that liberal bastard as the party leader.--Nutrider<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Exactly. I'm not above admitting my mistakes. Then gain, I never thought the Republican Country Club Aristocrats would force a self-serving leftist on us.

Holy cow Sanity; that has been the point I have been trying to make for a long time now!

Conservatives kicked George Allen in the nuts during the '06 election handing the Senate seat over to a freakin pervert, and ELIMINATING him from possible POTUS contention. Approx 1.71 Million people voted for Bush in 04 only 1.16 voted for Allen in '06.

A future contender to run against McCain in the Senate was brushed to the side when JD Hayworth was voted out of office. Many, and I mean many, GOOD conservative 'Pubs were voted out of office in the 06 election. Now the landscape is looking even worse as many others are retiring and nobody wants to step up to the plate.

So in closing; after kicking Allen right square in the nuts in 06, we then proceeded to get 3 SOLID conservatives (Tancredo, Hunter, FDT) and 1 who stayed at a conservative Holiday Inn Express (Romney) to run for POTUS and we refused to send them money to get their campaigns off the ground! All the candidates were broke as hell and conservatives NATION wide sat on their f'n pocket books bitching about the DBM and the "Establishment" trying to force Rudy down our throats. Why? Because we were stinging over the amnesty BS that was being advocated by a FEW in the GOP. It isn't as if the DBM and the RNC was draining our bank accounts with mandated EFT's. It isn't as if we couldn't have signed up for some of these polls to get our voices heard. As much as we want to lay the blame elsewhere, WE helped nominate McCain, not the DBM and not the RNC. I'm sorry but we made our own SHIT sandwich out of sheer stubbornness and arrogance; and now that the snowstorm has hit, it's all we have to eat. Someone tell me where I am wrong.--The Elucidator<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Just so. Every word.

Live YOUR life.

This politics "B.S." everyday isn't good for anyone. Now that you're back in the workplace, you'll find that people don't sit around and talk about politics. They usually talk about stuff that happened at home or at work. I am happy that you are happy with your new job, with your family and your good life.

This crap we write about on here is pretty much all "B.S." anyway because it doesn't make any difference. We all just end up getting upset about something we cannot change and (to me) it's NOT worth it anymore.

Yes, Maggie, God will have to save us all because it's really out of our hands now. We (as a nation) will have to hit rock bottom before anything will change. I feel bad about having to say that, but I think it's true, too.--BabyBeastie<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

I never wanted to admit that, but obviously, it's true. It's what I've said since the dawn of time. Americans have had it too good for too long. They take it for granted. Maybe if they actually HAVE it taken away from them, they'll go back to their senses and start fighting for this country agaian.

America is far more, "conservative" (in the sense you define conservative, a bit different than my own) than any other Western nation on earth, and for years, we have been in a right swing, and now people are just tired of it. They don't like Bush, including people in his own party.

This country is going into a left swing mode, and fast. Eventually, it'll go back the other way. Will it go back as much as it has been? Who knows. That will be the key answer.--CzechPrince<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

There is something in what you say, Prince. But, as Doc said, we have to be realistic. And there is something called "point of no return," unfortunately.

Conservatives are supposed to be able to handle imperfection.--Kathekon

"Handle it," dear. Not "encourage" it. And that's what we've been doing lately. No candidate is perfect. But beware of those candidates that are so imperfect that they sound more like the opposition than those whom they purport to represent.

I would gladly trade 10,000 of those "American Idol" neanderthals for a single Maggie any day of the week...--Laz<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Ok, now you've got me all sniffly. :blush:

[ColonialMarine0431]

Marines don't quit. Are you gonna quit? :confused:

[ColonialMarine0431]

Marines don't quit. Are you gonna quit? :confused:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BzccgMy0P6s&feature=related

[Maggie_T]

No, darling. I'm just going to quit electing false (Republican) prophets.

[ColonialMarine0431]

No, darling. I'm just going to quit electing false (Republican) prophets.

Fair enough.

We truly are in a world of crap.

[Beowulf]

This country is going into a left swing mode, and fast. Eventually, it'll go back the other way.
No it won't, Czech. All those illegals that are coming to America will be granted amnesty and then citizenship and as it is, most Hispanics vote Democrat since the government gives them what they want.

I've seen it in the Northeast too. New Hampshire used to be a GOP stronghold but as people from Massholechusetts moved to the state to escape high taxes, they wanted their programs, campaigned for them and got them. As we all know, if you want government programs, taxes must be raised. These Libbies are now spreading to other Conservative parts of America and wanting the same thing. Florida comes to mind with all the retirees wanting their SS check.

Another factor, most college brats are Libs as they have been poisoned by the institution that supposedly educates them. I think America is going eternally Left. Hopefully I'll be dead before full blown communism sets in.

[CzechPrince]

No it won't, Czech. All those illegals that are coming to America will be granted amnesty and then citizenship and as it is, most Hispanics vote Democrat since the government gives them what they want.

I've seen it in the Northeast too. New Hampshire used to be a GOP stronghold but as people from Massholechusetts moved to the state to escape high taxes, they wanted their programs, campaigned for them and got them. As we all know, if you want government programs, taxes must be raised. These Libbies are now spreading to other Conservative parts of America and wanting the same thing. Florida comes to mind with all the retirees wanting their SS check.

Another factor, most college brats are Libs as they have been poisoned by the institution that supposedly educates them. I think America is going eternally Left. Hopefully I'll be dead before full blown communism sets in.

Full blown communism is quite an exaggeration. But people thought Clinton was going to Doom us, and others thought Bush would. We made it through both.

The country, especially among people my age, is definitely turning left, but I would say more on the realm of social issues, not necessarily fiscal ones or military.

The parties will definitely be changing in the next 10-20 years as the people in power age and get out.

I've talked with Homes about this, that eventually, I predict, the Republican party and the GOP will not be concerned with social issues as much (abortion, gay marriage, etc.) For better or worse, they are going to become non issues. The future of the GOP are people like Rudy, Arnold, etc, as much as many of you may hate it. That's the new breed. The religion wing of the party will always be here, but not heard as often, or may split and form their own party.

However, the Democrat party will be changing as well. I predict that it will become much more militaristic to combat the GOP notion that Democrats are anti-military.

Just my observations, I've written papers on this.

[Beowulf]

I hope you're right, Czech, but for now, I'm sticking with my initial thought. If I'm wrong about it, I'll own up to it as I have done before.

[Maggie_T]

An exaggeration? Oh, I don't know. The French aristocrats also scoffed at the idea of a peasant revolt as an exaggeration. And we all know how that ended.

I've said it till I was blue in the face and I will continue to say it. The USSR may be dead. But that sure as hell does not mean communism is. Do you really believe that Hillary is the "moderate, middle-of-the-road" democrat the drive by media wants you to think she is? She was a Marxist when she was in college. And let me tell you one thing about Marxists, dear. Once a Marxist, always a Marxists. I know. I've dealt with some of the most die-hard specimens when I went to college in South America.

Communism never goes away. It may reinvent itself. It may disguise itself in sheep's clothing. But it never goes away.

And you may be able to find that out for yourself come November.

[Kathekon]

The country, especially among people my age, is definitely turning left, but I would say more on the realm of social issues, not necessarily fiscal ones or military.

The parties will definitely be changing in the next 10-20 years as the people in power age and get out.

However, the Democrat party will be changing as well. I predict that it will become much more militaristic to combat the GOP notion that Democrats are anti-military.

Just my observations, I've written papers on this.

Tough to make trend predictions like this. Irish Catholics went from near 100% Democratic to under 50-50 in a generation. Blacks and new Hispanics will not stay in the same party for very long. Yuppies are political whores who will move in a heartbeat.

Events drive issues and issues define parties. Events are not knowable.


The GOP was comfortably dominant and then the Depression hit.

I remember reading Time and Newsweek articles in 1965 about how the Goldwater defeat proved that Democrats would not lose any more elections and the GOP would go the way of the Whigs. Nixon won the following election and the Democrats almost imploded in 1972.

Clinton's pollster Stanley Greenberg understood the US electorate in 1992, based on his study of Macomb Co, Michigan. That model is largely useless today. Clinton also had an easy path the nomination in 1992 because the smart money said Bush could not be beaten after the Desert Storm victory and the fall of the Berlin Wall and thus top tier Democrats did not run.

Young people have been deeply deformed by our higher education system(if for no other reason than they think what they are experiencing really is higher education). But self-indulgence, narcissism and identity politics not only don't work, they don't make one happy. The idea that attitudes inculcated by colleges now now will last a lifetime is not credible. Necessity will intervene.

Good, principled ideas in response to genuine connections to the issues of the day presented by good people can often overcome demographics and ideological inertia (e.g., Reagan). Bad policies and/or corruption can cause a "natural" majority party to fail (e.g. Jimmy Carter, Tom Delay's Congress).

Today Democrats are surprisingly empty of defining issues and principles other than contempt for religion, federalism, corporations, patriotism, heterosexual families and those (stupid? deluded?) people who volunteer for the military. Their current calls for "change" are astoundingly free of details.

You can win one election because people are fed up with the other side but that does not become a realignment or a trend unless there is some substance.

[Maggie_T]

You guys are a LOT more optimistic than I. I only hope your optimism is justified.

[Tazeeyore]

Maggie my old, meaning long time, friend. Americas has survived revolutions, civil wars, world wars, horrible presidents, ie; Goober Carter, Lyndon Johnson, Bill Clinton etc: We have survived world envy and the UN. We will survive this election cycle. The vast majority of America has conservative values; only California, New York, Florida, Colorado and their ilk are oozing with leftist liberals. Since they have the largest delegate blocs they choose our government sometimes.

But always remember who we are and where we came from and take comfort in your friends, family, and the fact that Americans will not tolerate liberalism or marxism for very long. Be patient and know you are loved by many and things will always be better in America despite ignorance and liberals. Oops those are the same thing.
:hug2:

[DoctorDoom]

One hopes that your positive outlook is warranted, brer Taz. However, the path of history is strewn with the bones of nations and empires that thought they were immortal.

Ten Warning Signs of a Culture in Crisis:

(1) Increasing lawlessness;
(2) Loss of economic discipline;
(3) Oppressive bureaucracy;
(4) Decline of educational excellence;
(5) Weakening of cultural foundations;
(6) Loss of respect for tradition;
(7) Gross materialism;
(8) Gross immorality;
(9) Decay of religious belief; and
(10) Devaluing of human life.
-- Jim Nelson Black, When Nations Die

As I have looked back across the ruins and landmarks of antiquity, I have been stunned by the parallels between those societies and our own. For most of us the destruction of Carthage, the rise of the Greek city-states, and the Fall of Rome are mere ghosts of the past, history lessons long forgotten. And such things as the capture of Constantinople, the dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire, the collapse of the kingdoms of France and Spain, and the slow withering decline of the British Empire are much less clear and less memorable. Most of us do not remember much from our history lessons about the French Enlightenment or, for that matter, the issues that led to the American Revolution. But this is the legitimate background of our own place in history, it is vital that we reconsider the nature of life in those earlier times. For within those eras and movements are the seeds of the troubles we face today.When Nations Die (http://www.leaderu.com/common/nationsdie.html)

[maxparrish]

Perhaps the best example of the death of nations from within is the Roman empire (in contrast to outright invasion). The markers Doc listed mainly apply (although religious belief increased for many, while declining for others. The "divide" that we see today).

1) Drastic decline of Roman born population and Roman birth rates.

2) Drastic increase in the size of the State and taxation.

3) Drastic increase in entitlement programs (bread and circuses to keep millions of 'poor' happy).

4) Increase in civil infighting and civil wars over succession. Inability to form coherent government policy.

5) Increase in "multiculturalism" by incorporating tribes while NOT assimilating them.

6) Loss of patriotism and belief in the meaning of being Roman.

7) Increase in sexual perversions, hedonism and materialism, loss of sense of duty to Roman society.

Compare the two Romes. The early Rome that could lose 80,000 at the battle of Cannea to Hannibal are refuse to surrender...a Rome that lost many battles to Hannibal over 20 years and still fought to victory over Carthage.

And then the late Rome that could not raise an army to oppose the last offensive of the Huns because no one wanted to serve or pay the cost of Rome's defense.

Given the state of the nation, and choices before us, want to guess which side of the historic divide we are on?

[maxparrish]

Maggie my old, meaning long time, friend. Americas has survived revolutions, civil wars, world wars, horrible presidents, ie; Goober Carter, Lyndon Johnson, Bill Clinton etc: We have survived world envy and the UN. We will survive this election cycle. The vast majority of America has conservative values; only California, New York, Florida, Colorado and their ilk are oozing with leftist liberals. Since they have the largest delegate blocs they choose our government sometimes.

But always remember who we are and where we came from and take comfort in your friends, family, and the fact that Americans will not tolerate liberalism or Marxism for very long. Be patient and know you are loved by many and things will always be better in America despite ignorance and liberals. Oops those are the same thing.
:hug2:

I disagree. The welfare state has been increasing all over the western world. The percentage of GDP devoted to government is always increasing...sometimes making tiny retreats or leveling off for a while, but then jumping a head on new growth spurts. At one time, entitlement programs were a tiny percentage of the federal budget - now it is over half and rapidly growing (social security, Medicare, drug programs, Medicaid, Vet medical care, etc.).

Yes, some conservative goals have been achieved - mainly the deregulation of telecommunications and much of transportation as well as the retirement of Sunday "blue" laws. And other liberals goals have been checked (i.e. government ownership of industrial sectors). However liberalism/Marxism has found it more efficient to leave the title of land, capital, and labor with the private firm and person and to simply tax away its benefits. Think about it...

Do we have more or fewer rights over the use of our private land than 20, 40, 80, or more years ago?
Do we have more or fewer rights over the purchase and ownership of firearms than 20, 40, 80 years ago?
Do we have more or fewer rights to direct or local school district programs and expenditures than...(etc).
Do we have more or fewer rights use the fuels we wish?
Do we have more or fewer rights to purchase or modify or enhance the vehicles we wish?
Do we have more or fewer rights to purchase any product we wish OR to produce it for consumption?
Do we have more or less access to public lands?
Do we have more or less rights to build our homes the way we wish OR where we wish?
Has the state taken more or less of the fruits of our labor to give to others: to the permanent classes on the doles, to farmers, to welfare medical care, to public housing, to huge numbers of state colleges and tenured faculty, to 'challenged' students needing expensive programs to make them "equal", to food stamps, etc.?

I am not optimistic.

[Maggie_T]

Maggie my old, meaning long time, friend. Americas has survived revolutions, civil wars, world wars, horrible presidents, ie; Goober Carter, Lyndon Johnson, Bill Clinton etc: We have survived world envy and the UN. We will survive this election cycle. The vast majority of America has conservative values; only California, New York, Florida, Colorado and their ilk are oozing with leftist liberals. Since they have the largest delegate blocs they choose our government sometimes.

But always remember who we are and where we came from and take comfort in your friends, family, and the fact that Americans will not tolerate liberalism or marxism for very long. Be patient and know you are loved by many and things will always be better in America despite ignorance and liberals. Oops those are the same thing.
:hug2:


Again, I hope you prove me right, Taz. But, unfortunately, right now I feel more inclined to agree with the Doc and Max.

But you are a sweetheart and I love you all the same. :hugs:

[TheIrishman]

Fred Thompson was THE candidate but the conservatives let him down.
Now, the way I feel, I have to vote for McCain in the hope he can, and will, find a coupla good constitutional judges for the Supreme Court!! We might well get him out in four years but the judges are for LIFE!!

[Suzie]

Fred Thompson was THE candidate but the conservatives let him down.
Now, the way I feel, I have to vote for McCain in the hope he can, and will, find a coupla good constitutional judges for the Supreme Court!! We might well get him out in four years but the judges are for LIFE!!

I agree.

Think about the conservatives that were bashing Fred in the media from the beginning. I hope they are pleased with themselves considering where we are now.

[Maggie_T]

One hopes that your positive outlook is warranted, brer Taz. However, the path of history is strewn with the bones of nations and empires that thought they were immortal.

Ten Warning Signs of a Culture in Crisis:

(1) Increasing lawlessness;
(2) Loss of economic discipline;
(3) Oppressive bureaucracy;
(4) Decline of educational excellence;
(5) Weakening of cultural foundations;
(6) Loss of respect for tradition;
(7) Gross materialism;
(8) Gross immorality;
(9) Decay of religious belief; and
(10) Devaluing of human life.
-- Jim Nelson Black, When Nations Die

When Nations Die (http://www.leaderu.com/common/nationsdie.html)


Bummer. All the above sounds depressingly familiar. :sad:

And that is an ancient recipe that leftists always use to high advantage.

I find it demoralizing that the only ones who seem to learn from history are the tyrants and autocrats, which is why the above old recipe will never go away.

Talk about history repeating itself. And the ones responsible for repeating it are those who do not learn from it and thus, allow they tyrants - who DO learn from it - to take advantage. Of course, one must remember that tyrants make quite sure that the great unwashed DO NOT learn from history. NEA, anyone?

It really is very sad. Not to mention frustrating

[PrezLeefun]

Fred Thompson was THE candidate but the conservatives let him down.
Now, the way I feel, I have to vote for McCain in the hope he can, and will, find a coupla good constitutional judges for the Supreme Court!! We might well get him out in four years but the judges are for LIFE!!

I disagree. Fred caused his own undoing. Had he been enthusiastic when the polls and folks were in his favor he would have continued to flourish. But he seemed tired and disinterested during his whole official run. As a matter of fact.... he let us down. His supporters were the best thing about his run.

I will not put hope in a hopeless candidate.

[Wolfcounsel]

As long as the Second Amendment is not abolished by those in power, I am optimistic. I don't relish the idea of going to war to restore the Constitution. If the assholes think they can mess with God-given rights, that is their mistake and their finish.

[Maggie_T]

Fred Thompson was THE candidate but the conservatives let him down.
Now, the way I feel, I have to vote for McCain in the hope he can, and will, find a coupla good constitutional judges for the Supreme Court!! We might well get him out in four years but the judges are for LIFE!!


(shaking head) I am simply amazed at some people's short memory. I just hope it is not selectively short.


May I politely remind my fellow conservatives who are so concerned about the SCOTUS that McCain was one of the Alito bashers? He said that Alito was "too conservative." Oh, and he was also part of the infamous Gang of 14. May I also remind you all - especially those of you for whom abortion is a litmus test - that McCain voted in favor of using taxpayer funds to harvest stem cells from human embryos? That he opposes a constitutional amendment to protect human life because he is afraid that if Roe v. Wade were overruled, women's lives would be "endangered"? (screw the fetus; it's women who will be endagered)

I could go on for ages, but I'd like to remind you of one more thing before I go. For those of you who are so willing to put the SCOTUS in the hands of McCain, may I remind you that the loathed - by true constructionists, at any rate - McCain-Feingold debacle is a direct attack on the 1st Amendment AS OUR FOUNDING FATHERS ORIGINALLY INTEDED THE AMENDMENT TO BE? Has it occurred to you that if McCain appoints strict constructionist judges, he will have to appoint judges who will commit to overturning McCain-Feingold? And for those of you who tell me "Oh, yes. He will do that because he is not like Hillary/Obama," I have a couple of lovely twin towers right in downtown Manhattan that I can let you have really cheap.

I know that some people will hate me for saying all of the above. For some unfathonable reason best known to them, they will vote for McCain because they believe that he will "support the military" (McCain is a war hero, remember?).

Have it your way, guys. Just make sure you pray that Teddy Kennedy does not go to Hero McCain with some "proposition" that will end up snatching the chair from under our military's butt. I'm sure you all know that McCain, in a true bi-partisan spirit, is always willing ... nay, make that anxious, to lend an attentive ear to the opposition.

So knock yourselves out. Vote for Hero McCain. But make sure you keep those prayers comming, just in case.

[DoctorDoom]

As long as the Second Amendment is not abolished by those in power, I am optimistic. Put a RAT in the WH, more RATs in Congress, and a couple or three leftists activists on the SCOTUS, and you can kiss your guns (if not the Bill of Rights) goodbye. The RATs are lusting to take charge of everything, and be assured that when they get it this time, they won't lose it again short of a second revolution.

[DoctorDoom]

Sister Maggie, don't fret it. McCain won't be elected. He's being set up for a lethal fall by the RATs and their DBM ass-kissers. On Nov 4, Clinton or Obama WILL be elected as the POTUS, the liberalosers will dance in the streets, and the patriots will pray to God that the demise of America is swift and merciful.

[Wolfcounsel]

"...a couple or three leftists activists on the SCOTUS, and you can kiss your guns (if not the Bill of Rights) goodbye." --DoctorDoom

I've never let the word of 9 assholes in black make up my mind for me, and much less, a POS commie female or Muslim wannabe or Vietnam veteran wannabe hero who might occupy the White House as IMPOTUS.

[DesertFox]

Ten Warning Signs of a Culture in Crisis:

(1) Increasing lawlessness;
(2) Loss of economic discipline;
(3) Oppressive bureaucracy;
(4) Decline of educational excellence;
(5) Weakening of cultural foundations;
(6) Loss of respect for tradition;
(7) Gross materialism;
(8) Gross immorality;
(9) Decay of religious belief; and
(10) Devaluing of human life.
-- Jim Nelson Black, When Nations Die I'm not impressed by this list, frankly. Until America came along, NO country ever, anywhere, valued human life. Nor am I persuaded that Americans today any more immoral than people anywhere have ever been. Religious belief in history has overwhelmingly been in the sense of a Platonic Idol or myth to live by. The world was FAR more lawless in the 14th Century than today, and in the 7th Century, and in the days of Rome on its far borders.

So much of this is in how you define things. So much is in how much you're allowed to know about, in the sense that technology makes it possible for sickos to publish their own porn far and wide -- that wasn't possible before today, but that doesn't mean there weren't porn merchants and sexual weirdos before today.

Etc.

[ColonialMarine0431]

On Nov 4, Clinton or Obama WILL be elected as the POTUS...

ADMIN NOTE: Edited by management to remove remark that could be construed as a threat.

[PrezLeefun]

^^^ You may very well have to do that.

[ColonialMarine0431]

Actually, if I were a Dem, I'd vote for Obama before Hildabeast. She's a crook.

[PrezLeefun]

^^^ And he has a nice smile.


But yeah if I were a Dem (may I never ever say that again) I too would vote for Obama. He at least seems like a nice guy.

[terri]

Maggie,

I have a question for you. Why is it do you think that people are so charmed by Communism? Socialism? By what you've stated here on the board, you've had a lot of first hand experience with these people and probably great insight.

thanks,
Terri

[Wolfcounsel]

"But yeah if I were a Dem (may I never ever say that again) I too would vote for Obama. He at least seems like a nice guy." --PrezLeefun


When my wife and I voted for GWB in his first term, there were a bunch of junior high poopy pants (all boys) outside the polling place shouting for the voters to vote for Gore, because he was cuter than Bush.:limp:






:confused:
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Suzie]

"

(all boys) outside the polling place shouting for the voters to vote for Gore, because he was cuter than Bush.:limp:






:confused:
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Were they blind?

[Wolfcounsel]

"Were they blind?" --Suzie

Actually, I suspect some other clown had paid them to say something "good" for the benefit of the voters. I think the comments were aimed more at my wife. It is unprintable what she thinks of the retard.

[Rhino]

And on Nov 5.....I know you're probably being sarcastic, but that statement could be interpreted by some as an illegal act. I suggest you edit it in some way. If you don't, I will.

2/11/08 9:53 AM: I edited it myself.

[Timberwolf]

Maggie,

I have a question for you. Why is it do you think that people are so charmed by Communism? Socialism? By what you've stated here on the board, you've had a lot of first hand experience with these people and probably great insight.

thanks,
Terri
I'm not Maggie, but my answer is, "Guilt". Some of those who "make it" feel guilty that others don't and want to "help". Their "help" actually hamstrings those to whom they "give help"...and the "help" they're giving is coming out of MY pocket, not just their own. You see, they not only want to help because THEY feel guilty, but they have an insidious need for all of us to "help" because THEY feel guilty.

My :2cents:

[DesertFox]

That would apply to well-off liberals. Most communists, I suspect, are that way because they're ignorant -- ignorant in the sense of don't-know-enough or haven't-thought-thru their politics.

[Maggie_T]

Put a RAT in the WH, more RATs in Congress, and a couple or three leftists activists on the SCOTUS, and you can kiss your guns (if not the Bill of Rights) goodbye. The RATs are lusting to take charge of everything, and be assured that when they get it this time, they won't lose it again short of a second revolution.


Just so. And I very much fear that McCain would side with them. In the interest of bi-partisanship, you understand.

I just cannot trust McCain. I can't do it.

[Tazeeyore]

Far too many people want something for nothing. That is why communism, marxism, etc are viewed by many as better than capitalism. What they don't understand is that NOTHING is free.

[Maggie_T]

Sister Maggie, don't fret it. McCain won't be elected. He's being set up for a lethal fall by the RATs and their DBM ass-kissers. On Nov 4, Clinton or Obama WILL be elected as the POTUS, the liberalosers will dance in the streets, and the patriots will pray to God that the demise of America is swift and merciful.


Oh, dear. :(

You know what the worst part is? I think the Doc is right. :sad:

[Maggie_T]

I'm not Maggie, but my answer is, "Guilt". Some of those who "make it" feel guilty that others don't and want to "help". Their "help" actually hamstrings those to whom they "give help"...and the "help" they're giving is coming out of MY pocket, not just their own. You see, they not only want to help because THEY feel guilty, but they have an insidious need for all of us to "help" because THEY feel guilty.

My :2cents:

Terri, Timberwolf has one half of the equation down pat. Yes, for the elites, those who "made it," it is guilt (think Bill Gates).

The other side of the equation is those who DID NOT make it. Not because they did not have a chance (in America, everybody has a chance) but because they did not want to take the chance. And now, they see that those who did not choose to sit on their butts and wail "woe's me" are in fine shape and they feel envious. Oh, yes they do. Don't fall for that myth that poor people are invariably good, humble, oppressed, and suffering. Not all of them. There are those who resent those who "made it" because that behavior underscores the fact that "you don't work, you don't eat." And they (the lazy ones) don't like it one bit. It makes their "woe's me, I'm oppressed" mantra hard to justify.

Lastly, there is the entitlement mentality, that unfortunately, has seeped into our culture, to the point that even some people who are otherwise conservative, start asking "what's in it for me." In that respect, the left has done a marvelous job. It has convinced even honest, well-meaning people that "everyone is entitled to something."

And then, there is the moral aspect. For instance, the fact that people do not want to fight for their religious/moral values anymore. They want to "belong," they want to be popular, they want to feel good about themselves. And so, they say they are "tolerant." A wonderful excuse to use when they don't want to be called pious, bible-thumpers, bigoted, or even worse (gasp!): "intolerant."

That is why leftism has become so attractive lately. Because leftism has changed its colors. It's has reinvented itself. From disciplinarian, totalitarian, intolerant, it's now "compassionate, inclusive, tolerant, open-minded." That is, until they get power again. Then, they will go back to being the ruthless dictators they were meant to be.

I hope I answered your question, Terri. Feel free to ask me further clarification, if you need it.

Let me just put it in simple words: never, ever, ever, underestimate the persuasive power of leftism. Whether it calls itself communism, or socialism, or whatever. Just don't underestimate the power of letting people in great numbers believe you "care about them ... you want to take care of them ... that you know they are entitled." That's all you have to tell the Great Unwashed. And you'll have them eating out of your hand in no time flat.

Leftists know that only too well. That's why leftism is still alive and well, thank you. In spite of the demise of the USSR.

[Maggie_T]

Far too many people want something for nothing. That is why communism, marxism, etc are viewed by many as better than capitalism. What they don't understand is that NOTHING is free.

Oh, I think they do, Taz. It's just that they don't give a damn as long as it's the "evil rich" and not THEY who are footing the bill.

[CzechPrince]

Tough to make trend predictions like this.

Irish Catholics went from near 100% Democratic to under 50-50 in a generation.

Mainly because of the abortion issue and the Church's opposition to it. Most churches, (except maybe for the Mormon) have been loosing influence on American politics for years now, most notably the evangelical and traditionally, "WASPish" ones. However, the Catholic Church is in the same boat.

Blacks and new Hispanics will not stay in the same party for very long. Yuppies are political whores who will move in a heartbeat.

Republicans have a lot of work to do with African Americans if they want that voting block, and if anything, Hispanics are going to be swinging back towards the democrats for what they perceive as a harsh immigration policy, and supporting ones such as McCain's.

Events drive issues and issues define parties. Events are not knowable.

True, but it's not always events. It's a bit more complex than that. I would agree that events drive issues and define parties in the short term more so in many instances. But changes in demographics, income, education, poverty, religious affiliations, societal attitudes, you name it, affect the long term changes.



The GOP was comfortably dominant and then the Depression hit.

I remember reading Time and Newsweek articles in 1965 about how the Goldwater defeat proved that Democrats would not lose any more elections and the GOP would go the way of the Whigs. Nixon won the following election and the Democrats almost imploded in 1972.

Clinton's pollster Stanley Greenberg understood the US electorate in 1992, based on his study of Macomb Co, Michigan. That model is largely useless today. Clinton also had an easy path the nomination in 1992 because the smart money said Bush could not be beaten after the Desert Storm victory and the fall of the Berlin Wall and thus top tier Democrats did not run.


Again, you bring up completely valid points, however, long term affects go beyond just events in my opinion.

Young people have been deeply deformed by our higher education system(if for no other reason than they think what they are experiencing really is higher education). But self-indulgence, narcissism and identity politics not only don't work, they don't make one happy. The idea that attitudes inculcated by colleges now now will last a lifetime is not credible. Necessity will intervene.

I would like to give *most* people who attend college a bit more credit than just pawns sent to be brainwashed by liberal professors. You've got bad apples in every bunch. There are some die hard far American right in this nation, don't kid yourself. Most professors statistically are more likely to be, "liberal", than "conservative", but in my years of college, I've found most of them to be very fair. Opinionated, but fair, and I've never been docked for having an opposing view point, whether mine was perceived more conservative or more liberal than the teacher's.

Good, principled ideas in response to genuine connections to the issues of the day presented by good people can often overcome demographics and ideological inertia (e.g., Reagan). Bad policies and/or corruption can cause a "natural" majority party to fail (e.g. Jimmy Carter, Tom Delay's Congress).

What is defined as, "good" and, "bad" policies by you may be what the majority of Americans want for all you know. A policy is bad because we, as human beings, don't agree with XYZ. It doesn't matter why. We all have our definitions on what is good and bad policy.

Today Democrats are surprisingly empty of defining issues and principles other than contempt for religion, federalism, corporations, patriotism, heterosexual families and those (stupid? deluded?) people who volunteer for the military. Their current calls for "change" are astoundingly free of details.

I think that's a bit of a stretch (no, I'm not a democrat) and again, you'll disagree. When I hear people on here

You can win one election because people are fed up with the other side but that does not become a realignment or a trend unless there is some substance.

Maybe, but I'm predicting that there will be. All the right and wrong places are set to give the Democrats a huge advantage. Even if McCain pulls out a victory, I doubt the majority of democrats are going to be that upset if it were Huckabee or someone of the same caliber. And that's the point, Huckabee isn't electable. Americans are tired of politicians fusing religion in their politics. It's evident.

The Republican party isn't that stupid (I hope not) to nominate someone like Huckabee who will only do well in a handful of regions in the US. Kiss any swing states good bye. Modern political parties are do or die, they aren't going to risk loosing elections for certain issues. It's the nature of the beast.

In the end, what we have to ask yourself is, how far are we willing to go to defend, "principles" (in this case, your defined conservative ones) to make a point that we don't like a moderate like McCain running? The fact is many of your principles may be loosing ground with middle America. That's the nature of politics, and the parties will have to adapt.

[CzechPrince]

Maggie,

I have a question for you. Why is it do you think that people are so charmed by Communism? Socialism? By what you've stated here on the board, you've had a lot of first hand experience with these people and probably great insight.

thanks,
Terri

Ug Terri, I'm hurt.

Well, maybe I can give some insight anyway, even though you didn't ask me.

When it comes down to it, I don't think anyone really wants communism. Some maybe, but I'd say it's a small minority who actually want true Marxism (which they try to argue isn't Soviet style communism, etc) or the ones who do, most realize it's just not feasible.

In one of the more recent Czech elections a few years back, some people were freaking out that the communist party came in second place. Second place may as well have been dead last. It was this huge scare and people flipped. The only people in the Czech Republic (besides some younger morons) who want communism back are older people who aren't getting their pensions anymore, and who long for a cultural identity that was present during the Soviet Union/occupation of eastern Europe.

The simple fact is Soviet culture will always have a sort of fascination with people around the world. Even I have a great admiration for Soviet Style impressionistic artwork and propaganda, I find it fascinating. It's different. Do I support communism? I don't even need to answer such an obvious question.

With this fascination, communism is in a sense romanticized in pop culture, especially American. And it always will. The people in charge at the Kremlin over those long and miserable decades knew what they were doing, the created a cult of personality out of a country. They did their job. Look in your local mall: Sickle and hammer shirts. The cyrillic alphabet looks more like an exotic picture than an actual alphabet (that most Americans who are wearing such shirts are to stupid to read anyway, and don't know a lick of Russian) and I think the fact that communism in Europe lost makes it somewhat of a forbidden fruit.

It strikes our curiosity. Unfortunately for them, their economic polices sucked and so did their human rights, and the rest is history.

Communism is a form of Socialism, but social welfare nations on the other hand like many European nations isn't communism. Socialism has heavy government regulation, but it isn't a command/planned economy, and different on many other levels. It would take many posts to get into all that.

[Maggie_T]

When it comes down to it, I don't think anyone really wants communism. Some maybe, but I'd say it's a small minority who actually want true Marxism (which they try to argue isn't Soviet style communism, etc) or the ones who do, most realize it's just not feasible.


CORRECTION: Most do not even realize they are (would be) voting for communism because THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT COMMUNISM IS.

They have been indoctrinated with "revisionist history," which probably puts Marxism in the best of lights (tolerant, multiculturalist, etc.) They have no idea about what is "feasible." All they know is that Nanny Government "cares for them." That's enough for the morons.

[Maggie_T]

No, darling. I think I'll take a rain check on that. I'm exhausted as it is. All this explaining the obvious just takes it out of me.

See you tomorrow, love. I hope I'll be a bit more rested by then.

[DoctorDoom]

I'm not impressed by this list, frankly. Until America came along, NO country ever, anywhere, valued human life. Nor am I persuaded that Americans today any more immoral than people anywhere have ever been. Religious belief in history has overwhelmingly been in the sense of a Platonic Idol or myth to live by. The world was FAR more lawless in the 14th Century than today, and in the 7th Century, and in the days of Rome on its far borders.Those are valid points, but the list delineates the signs of a culture in collapse, regardless of whether the world sucked more in the 14th century than it does now. Might I offer a challenge? Name the nations and empires that went through those stages and survived, let alone flourished.

History demonstrates that the collapse of cultures, nations, empires and civilizations always started from within. And in the last fifty years the internal decay in America has been profound.

[CzechPrince]

No, darling. I think I'll take a rain check on that. I'm exhausted as it is. All this explaining the obvious just takes it out of me.

See you tomorrow, love. I hope I'll be a bit more rested by then.

Hahaha, I deleted my post after re-reading yours one more time I understood what you meant. I'll post later, I'm tired, and you're 3 hours behind me!

[terri]

Ug Terri, I'm hurt.

Well, maybe I can give some insight anyway, even though you didn't ask me.

Oh GOSH, please don't be hurt, I honestly didn't know that you were from an Eastern block country. :flower: I knew Maggie, from previous posts, had lived through it and might have a unique perspective. I read your analysis and it sounds logical and well thought out.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer my question.

For me, I guess I look at my own family and see a fertile field for those championing left's idea of useful idiots. From my elderly parents who believe everything that NBC news tells them, to my sister who walks around with her hand out in the belief that the federal government owes her something. It's laziness IMHO and for those who tell people like them that yes, there are owed, well, they've got votes for life.

Sad isn't it?

It takes effort to make it in this world--hard work and sweat. Some succeed and some don't. It isn't fair but life isn't fair and taking from one class of people to give to another won't change facts.

My step mother wanted to put an Obama sign on my acreage. She was deathly serious and was going to do this without my permission. (I'm in another state and my acreage is in Kansas) Actually, I'm thinking of letting her, but I'd go home to make a series of signs to stand next to Obama's. Sign 1: VOTE for Socialism. Sign 2: They'll take from the Rich and give to you. Sign 3: Then when your rich, THEY'LL TAKE FROM YOU TOO. Sign 4: Go ahead and vote this nation into SOCIALISM. BUT DON'T COMPLAIN TO ME WHEN YOU DESTROY US ALL.

[Beowulf]

My step mother wanted to put an Obama sign on my acreage. She was deathly serious and was going to do this without my permission. (I'm in another state and my acreage is in Kansas) Actually, I'm thinking of letting her, but I'd go home to make a series of signs to stand next to Obama's. Sign 1: VOTE for Socialism. Sign 2: They'll take from the Rich and give to you. Sign 3: Then when your rich, THEY'LL TAKE FROM YOU TOO. Sign 4: Go ahead and vote this nation into SOCIALISM. BUT DON'T COMPLAIN TO ME WHEN YOU DESTROY US ALL.

Terri, let her do it and then do as you threaten, take a picture of it and post it for us all to see. I'd love to see it!

[gnome]

My personal experience is that among those of the left who are educated enough to know better, most reject any flavor of communism. Right or wrong, they see an excess of lassiez-faire as a "sink or swim" policy, and seek an alternative that isn't communism either.

I hope that makes sense enough to explain my point of view.

[terri]

Terri, let her do it and then do as you threaten, take a picture of it and post it for us all to see. I'd love to see it!

I'll make her the offer this weekend and see what she says. I won't hold back and tell her exactly what I intend to do. Should make for an interesting post. :thumb:

I do love my step mother; it's her politics I despise, my father's too. :flame:

[Beowulf]

I do love my step mother; it's her politics I despise, my father's too. :flame:
I can relate, Terri. I'm the only Conservative in my family. My folks, step-mom and all but one sibling are Libs, some of which I don't speak with anymore.

[Beowulf]

My personal experience is that among those of the left who are educated enough to know better, most reject any flavor of communism. Right or wrong, they see an excess of lassiez-faire as a "sink or swim" policy, and seek an alternative that isn't communism either.


You would think they know better yet they don't. If you look at the main goals of Communism, it is also many of the objectives of the Democratic party, such as controlling the educational institutions, abolishing capitalism and control of the media. They both have done that rather well and the Democrats are too dumb to notice it.