McCain’s Canal Zone Birth Prompts Queries About Whether That Rules Him Out

[DeclinetoState]

By CARL HULSE (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/carl_hulse/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

WASHINGTON — The question has nagged at the parents of Americans born outside the continental United States for generations: Dare their children aspire to grow up and become president? In the case of Senator John McCain of Arizona, the issue is becoming more than a matter of parental daydreaming.

Mr. McCain’s likely nomination as the Republican candidate for president and the happenstance of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936 are reviving a musty debate that has surfaced periodically since the founders first set quill to parchment and declared that only a “natural-born citizen” can hold the nation’s highest office.

Almost since those words were written in 1787 with scant explanation, their precise meaning has been the stuff of confusion, law school review articles, whisper campaigns and civics class debates over whether only those delivered on American soil can be truly natural born. To date, no American to take the presidential oath has had an official birthplace outside the 50 states.

“There are powerful arguments that Senator McCain or anyone else in this position is constitutionally qualified, but there is certainly no precedent,” said Sarah H. Duggin, an associate professor of law at Catholic University who has studied the issue extensively. “It is not a slam-dunk situation.”

Mr. McCain was born on a military installation in the Canal Zone, where his mother and father, a Navy officer, were stationed. His campaign advisers say they are comfortable that Mr. McCain meets the requirement and note that the question was researched for his first presidential bid in 1999 and reviewed again this time around.NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html?_r=2&ei=5090&en=45d24e7c7a991183&ex=1361941200&oref=slogin&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin)

Is the Times trying to find something else to use against McCain?

[Suzie]

I am sure the Times would want to take anything they could from the families of people serving overseas. Including the citizenship of their children.

[Lazarus]

The Times are so full of shit on this issue it doesn't deserve the dignity of being responded to... They wouldn't know the definition of a "Natural-Born Citizen" if it bit them on their arrogant journalistic lying asses...

When I was a kid in grammer school anyone of my peers could shoot holes all in that arguement, because back then they used to teach Civics as a part of the general curriculum... I doubt the Times can name the three branches of the federal government...

[Suzie]

How old is Barack Obama and when did Hawaii become a state?

[Lazarus]

How old is Barack Obama and when did Hawaii become a state?heheheheh... Touche'! Sooz score's a point... If the Times want to play these ridiculous, pointless games, that door swings both ways...

Good one, Sooz!:thumb:

The fact is, when a child is born to parents who are in fact US citizens, regardless of WHERE the child is born, he is a Natural-Born US Citizen...

I have a cousin who was born to my aunt (daddy's sister) and my Special Forces Uncle (American Indian - tell me HE's not a Natural born citizen) when they were stationed in Germany... And she (cousin) is recognized by US law as being as Natural Born as any Natural Born US Citizen... THAT is the Law...

If McCain was born to US Citizen parents, regardless of the location, he IS a Natural Born US citizen... The Times is desperately trying to restore their credibility while bostering their arrogant pride after the fiasco over the McCain infidelity rumor... And as always happens when one's arrogance leads his thinking, they have once again embarrassed themselves publicly and thoroughly...

[PrezLeefun]

Didnt we OWN the canal when McCain was born?

[Lazarus]

Didnt we OWN the canal when McCain was born?Unless he was born after Jimmuh Carter gave it away...:thumb:

[Suzie]

Unless he was born after Jimmuh Carter gave it away...:thumb:

I think he was born before George Washington crossed the Delaware. :biggrin:

[DeclinetoState]

The Canal Zone was a U.S. territory or possession before the guy with the cheesy grin from Georgia signed it away. I don't know what the citizenship status was of people born there, but I would assume that, unless there is evidence that McCain's parents were not U.S. citizens, this question is moot.

Given her background, it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that Hillary was born somewhere else.

[Elgalad]

How old is Barack Obama and when did Hawaii become a state?

Hawaii achieved Statehood on August 21, 1959. Barack Obama was born on August 4, 1961.


This issue (McCain's natural-born status) is a non starter and everyone knows it. He was born on a United States military reservation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccain#Family_background_and_early_education), which is and has always been considered American soil. The uproar from veterans and active duty servicemembers should this precedent ever be set that Their children born 'overseas' on a military base are not Natural Born Americans would be instantaneous and deafening and would leave absolutely zero doubt in anyone's mind that it was a Bad Idea.

In any case, the fact that this is even getting attention is a good sign for McCain (this week). It means the dbm haven't dug up anything really 'damning' yet.

Give 'em time. :smirky:


-Elgalad

[MrSanity]

I think he was born before George Washington crossed the Delaware. :biggrin::biglaugh: Good one.

[DeclinetoState]

I think he was born before George Washington crossed the Delaware. :biggrin:
You have him mixed up with Helen Thomas, no?

:evilgrin:

[UnkHiram]

This is the most idiotic thing I have heard in a long time. McCain was born on a Military Base, by definition US Soil.

[DeclinetoState]

McCain was born on a Military Base, by definition US Soil.
Not necessarily true (if you're a reporter for the NY Times, that is).

[Timberwolf]

Hawaii achieved Statehood on August 21, 1959. Barack Obama was born on August 4, 1961.


This issue (McCain's natural-born status) is a non starter and everyone knows it. He was born on a United States military reservation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccain#Family_background_and_early_education), which is and has always been considered American soil. The uproar from veterans and active duty servicemembers should this precedent ever be set that Their children born 'overseas' on a military base are not Natural Born Americans would be instantaneous and deafening and would leave absolutely zero doubt in anyone's mind that it was a Bad Idea.

In any case, the fact that this is even getting attention is a good sign for McCain (this week). It means the dbm haven't dug up anything really 'damning' yet.

Give 'em time. :smirky:


-Elgalad
He could've been born in the palace of the Shah of Iran for all it matters...he was born to AMERICAN CITIZENS, so it doesn't matter where he was born...he is a natural-born American citizen.

[Gato es Verde]

As much as I'd love to disown and deport that SOB, he's got a right to run for that office and his birth-circumstances don't matter if he was born on a U.S. military base abroad.

[TeenageRepublican]

The fact that NY Times has been attacking McCain convinces me more and more to support him.

[Gato es Verde]

The fact that NY Times has been attacking McCain convinces me more and more to support him.

Thats why they are attacking him - to unify the Republicans around him. Don't forget they endorsed him first.

[Elgalad]

He could've been born in the palace of the Shah of Iran for all it matters...he was born to AMERICAN CITIZENS, so it doesn't matter where he was born...he is a natural-born American citizen.

That would be an acceptable alternative as well.

Since the 14th Amendment doesn't precisely fill in the gaps as to what the definition of a "Natural Born Citizen" is, a law had to be written to do that..


From Constitution.net: (http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html) and the US Code (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/)
Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001401----000-.html) defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"
Anyone born inside the United States
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.That's definitely clear enough. Maybe the NY Times just lost their copies of the Constitution and the US Code of Law.


-Elgalad

[Beowulf]

This is the most idiotic thing I have heard in a long time. McCain was born on a Military Base, by definition US Soil.

Very true, Unk, but as it says regarding citizenship (not exact wording):
"Children born abroad of U.S. parents ARE U.S. citizens."

[The_Elucidator]

He has enough issues that make he unqualified to be our POTUS but this isn't one of them!

[Dowple]

This all might be about Arnold. Making it seem absurd not to allow Arnold to run for president. If John McCain is the Nelson Mandela of the Republican Party, Arnold would be the party's Theo Mbeki.

[MrSanity]

Thats why they are attacking him - to unify the Republicans around him. Don't forget they endorsed him first.
They also endorsed Hillary Clinton, because they wanted to endorse someone from both parties, to appear unbiased. Surprise, it's one of our most liberal candidates they threw in the spotlight.

Doubt that the Times actually wants McCain to win.

They would certainly not put their credibility on hold to stop Obama from getting elected. It's laughable that you think the Times would assassinate McCain's character in order "to unify the Republicans." They would never want the Republicans to control the White House, even if it's McCain. And they certainly don't want to give up the Pelosi-Reid Congress, even if the country prefers fecal matter over it. You can't be serious. NYT is on a hit parade, and it's going to be ugly for a long time. If they hate Bush's guts now, they're not going to go easy on a candidate who supports the war, the tax cuts, the right to life, etc, etc, etc.

It wouldn't matter if it was Thompson, McCain, Giuliani, or Romney who got the nomination, to the NYT. As long as it's not pure leftism, they'll throw the GOP candidate into the lion's den.

[Lazarus]

He could've been born in the palace of the Shah of Iran for all it matters...he was born to AMERICAN CITIZENS, so it doesn't matter where he was born...he is a natural-born American citizen.PREEEEcisely MY point... All this searching for the technicality of whether or not the canal zone, as a US military base, qualifies as US territory is a red herring... One does not have to be born on US soil to be a Natural-Born US Citizen... One only need be born to legal US Citizen parents... The actual location, Kansas, the Great Wall of China, or the dark side of the moon, is IRRELEVANT...

The Times is only trying to recover from their previous embarrassing drubbing last week, and in doing so by setting up another revenge story against McCain they just embarrass themselves further by displaying their gross ignorance of Civics... And their credibility in the eyes of the public once again drops to all time lows...

They are going to reduce their own credibility to the point where they have to run front page stories about alien abductions just to get the oddballs to read their rag...

[Rhino]

McCain was born on a Military Base, by definition US Soil.Not necessarily true (if you're a reporter for the NY Times, that is).Actually, not true at all. Overseas bases are not considered to be US soil, but it makes no difference either way. Children born to military parents stationed abroad have always been natural US citizens, whether they were born on the base or off base. I have personal experience with this, since my oldest son was born in England. He actually qualified for dual citizenship, had we wanted that. He also qualified for their socialized medicine system, but we sure as heck didn't want that, except maybe in an emergency. I think I still have his old National Health System card somewhere, as a souvenir.

[Suzie]

Well stick around, he might get a chance for that healthcare here in this country soon if a dem wins.

[Rhino]

I really don't think they could pass a true national health care system, because I don't think support for it is broad enough. Remember what happened with Hillarycare? What I fear is what they may pass as a 'compromise', and how they then might incrementally evolve that into a national health care system over time. Dems are masters at incrementalism.

[DeclinetoState]

Voting for a Democrat is like being the frog put into a pot of cold water that is slowly warmed up until the frog is cooked.

Voting for a RINO is much the same, only a little slower.