Why so few Christians joining fight against The Mark?

[DadaOrwell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MrVup9Dl4U

For over twenty years, "Patriot Pastor" Garrett Lear has strode the halls of New Hampshire's legislature...serving as a voice for his faith and his Revolutionary War ancestors. Today he talks with us about Real ID, the liberty deficit among Christians and his colorful outfit. Pastor Lear's church is in Wakefield, New Hampshire.

What do you FC's think? Is Real ID the Mark of the Beast? A precursor to it? A bad thing? A good thing?

[Gato es Verde]

Drivers License Numbers were supposed to be the mark of the beast. The Social Security number was supposed to be the mark of the beat. Credit Cards were supposed to be the mark of the best. Real ID is now supposed to be the mark of the beast?

I can't keep track of all the end times conspiracy theories out there.

I hope the anti-Christ will be so kind as to just call it the "mark of the beast" so there's no confusion.

[DoctorDoom]

The nature of mark is unknown. However ...

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

A means of identification of every individual, combined with a cashless economy, will make the realization of the mark possible.

[jayson]

A means of identification of every individual, combined with a cashless economy, will make the realization of the mark possible.

Which is coming in the name of efficiency and security.

We already have a cashless economy- 95% of money is simply numbers in a database of some bank. It's the 5% that has kept our anonymity secure. I pay for everything in cash... call me old fashioned but I can't bring myself to push aside my values to save a little time.

[DoctorDoom]

When cash is abolished, prepare for the worst.

[PrezLeefun]

This is the kind of talk that usually makes me sick to my stomach.

[bigred1says]

Drivers License Numbers were supposed to be the mark of the beast. The Social Security number was supposed to be the mark of the beat. Credit Cards were supposed to be the mark of the best. Real ID is now supposed to be the mark of the beast?

I can't keep track of all the end times conspiracy theories out there.

I hope the anti-Christ will be so kind as to just call it the "mark of the beast" so there's no confusion.

Just a thought, could all of the different numbers listed above have been the precursors to the promised mark? It makes sense to me, at least, that if the mark were to be instituted in one fell swoop mass hysteria would ensue and rejection of the program would be assured. Maybe it's like the frog in the pot, if the heat is put on too fast he will jump out, if it is gradually increased he will be lulled into a false sense of security. I don't know if this is the actual mark but the system is being put into place where the world population will be lulled into a false sense of security and accept the mark freely.

[DoctorDoom]

Just so. The mark will not come until it will be readily accepted. Note that in Revelation, the mark is in the hand or the forehead. This suggests biometrics, implanted RFID chips (in the hand, especially), or a combination of them as positive ID. The idea that the identification device must contain reams of data is unjustifiable. All it needs to do tell a computer, "This Is John. J. Jones, ID # 123456789012," and everything about him will instantly be available.

After that, cash will be phased out, and all financial transactions will be computerized, with the ID being used for buying or selling. A person without the ID will be completely cut off from commerce, and will probably be arrested because of not having one. Doubtless it will bring about an underground barter-based economy, but expect the authorities to crack down on it relentlessly.

It's worse for those who take the mark and then change the mind. Once their ID is flagged, the person will be as trackable as a dog with muddy feet. Aside from buying and selling, the ID will be ideal for locating. If the flag is on, even being near an RFID reader will tell the system the location within a few feet.

"John. J. Jones, ID # 123456789012, has just passed the phone kiosk in front of 1075 North Main Street."

If JJJ is wanted, he had best either cut off his hand or stay out of populated areas,

All the necessary technology to activate the mark exists now. It's just a matter of selling it to the masses. And given the power of the media, that will be simple.

[jayson]

All the necessary technology to activate the mark exists now. It's just a matter of selling it to the masses. And given the power of the media, that will be simple.

Just look here DD:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/10/tech/main508641.shtml

"It's great what it can do, it can save a lot of lives, including my dad's because he has a lot of medical problems and I want him to be around for a while," said Derek Jacobs.

"We're doing this as a security for us, because we've worked so hard to save my husband's life," said Leslie Jacobs, 46.

...

Company scientists are already working on a global positioning system -- similar to what you'd use in your car -- but to track people. And like VeriChip, it would be small enough to implant in someone. And the real kicker:


Jacobs and his family brush aside those arguments. Anyone can be tracked through the Internet and e-mail, credit cards and cellular phones, they say. Losing a little personal privacy is a small price to pay for what one day may save their lives.Whoa there!

Like I've said for years now, this too will be dumped on us in the name of security, and the people will eat it up with a spoon so they can have that all too false sense of extra security.

[MrSanity]

Some have concluded it to be the Pope:

http://www.seventh-day.org/NSL-2.htm:

Now - who is the "beast?" What power:

1) Received its "seat" and authority from Rome. Revelation 13:4.
2) Rules the world for 1260 years (from 538 A.D. - 1798 A.D.).
3) Then received a "deadly wound" which later heals. Revelation 13:3.
4) Is both a political and a religious power, which is worshipped. Revelation 13:4.
5) Tampered with God's law. Daniel 7:25.
6) Has a leader who claims to be God on the earth and to be able to forgive sins. (which is blasphemy) Revelation 13:1.
7) Is a mother church (daughters have come out of her). Revelation 17:5.
8) Made war with the saints. Revelation 13:7.
9) Is a world power which is wondered at. Revelation 13:3,4.
10) Has "a man" at the head of it with the number of his name being 666. Revelation 13:18.
11) Has a dreaded "mark" which, if received, will cause a person to be cast into the lake of fire and lose eternal life. Revelation 14:9,10. By now most of the people have guessed that it's the Papacy. They're correct. It's the only power on the face of the earth that fits all of the Bible characteristics for it. But what about 666?

http://www.seventh-day.org/NSL-3.htm
What about 666? Let's take a shocking look.

On the Pope's official mitre is the title "Vicarius Filii Dei" which means "Vicar of the Son of God." The claim that this is his official title has been stated publicly through the years. The April 18, 1915 issue of Our Sunday Visitor, states: "The letters inscribed in the Pope's mitre are these: "VICARIUS FILII DEI," which is Latin for Vicar of the Son of God."
In Revelation 13:18 it says, "Count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. (666)."
Let's do it now and see what we find. Remember the Roman numerals you learned in school?
V = 5
I = l
C = 100
A = 0
R = 0
I = l
U = 5
S = O

"U" and "V" have the same value. Look in your encyclopedia under "Alphabet."
F = 0
I = 1
L = 50
I = 1
I = 1

D = 500
E = 0
I = 1
----------- Total = 666!
In Greek, Hebrew, and Latin, it comes out the same.

[PrezLeefun]

^^^^So you think the anti-christ will be the pope.

[MrSanity]

^^^^So you think the anti-christ will be the pope.I think it's a powerful argument of the 7th Day Adventists, but I cannot personally say in absolute certainty.

[PrezLeefun]

I think the anti-christ will be a political figure, not a religious one.

[MrSanity]

I think the anti-christ will be a political figure, not a religious one.Depends on how you interpret Revelation 13:4:

[T]hey worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?"

[MrSanity]

Maybe "the dragon" is the American people, who are about to give authority to Barack Obama... who will rule for 1260 years and invade all of our allies.

Scary!

[Gato es Verde]

Just a thought, could all of the different numbers listed above have been the precursors to the promised mark? It makes sense to me, at least, that if the mark were to be instituted in one fell swoop mass hysteria would ensue and rejection of the program would be assured. Maybe it's like the frog in the pot, if the heat is put on too fast he will jump out, if it is gradually increased he will be lulled into a false sense of security. I don't know if this is the actual mark but the system is being put into place where the world population will be lulled into a false sense of security and accept the mark freely.

You're talking about a massive conspiracy dating back over seven decades. I don't buy it. Frankly, FDR wasn't that bright.

[norman]

Do I understand correctly that some are trying to prevent fulfillment of Biblical prophecy? I am not a fatalist but when it comes to Biblical prophecy, what will be will be and there is no preventing it. Haven't you read the end? You win!

This is one of many reasons I have problems with religious people in politics. Not to say they don't have a right to participate but that their ideas are unorthodox and lack normalcy.

[gnome]

Don't put too much stock in numerological codes to prove something. It's possible to make them out to say almost anything you want.

Examples available if anyone cares.

[MSGT]

Some have concluded it to be the Pope:Try this (http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/showthread.php?t=53757)

[Timberwolf]

I was just going to make reference to the 666 being the number of perfection in islam.

Great reference, MSGT.

[DoctorDoom]

The physical Antichrist (as opposed to the spirit of antichrist - 1 John 4:3) is unlikely to be a religious figure. In order to broker the seven-year covenant between Israel and its enemies (Dan 9:27), the "the prince that shall come" (Dan 9:26) will have to be trusted by both sides. What religious figure can make that claim? Certainly not the pope.

IMO, he will be a political or business figure, viewed as neutral by all sides, and with great influence, power and charisma. He won't fit the standard perception of the Antichrist, which is how he'll achieve his evil without serious opposition.

[bigred1says]

You're talking about a massive conspiracy dating back over seven decades. I don't buy it. Frankly, FDR wasn't that bright.
No, just a prophesy made a couple of thousand years ago. It don’t really matter who was bright enough to come up with the idea, the fact is it's going to happen. There’s no conspiracy.

[norman]

the fact is it's going to happen. There’s no conspiracy.

Or it has already happened inasmuch as John was revealing things "which must shortly come to pass."

An individual's interpretation of Biblical prophecy is not a good reason to support or oppose public policy. Policy ought to be evaluated on its own merits independent of religious implications but not without regard to ethical/moral considerations.

[CzechPrince]

Some have concluded it to be the Pope:

http://www.seventh-day.org/NSL-2.htm:



http://www.seventh-day.org/NSL-3.htm

It's utter bullshit. Vicarius Filii Dei, which produces the so called 666 number, is irrelevant because no such title actually exists for the Papacy. The whole arguement falls through right there.

Even an average, non Catholic Christian points this out:

http://arnold.gamboa.ph/2003/12/roman-pope-is-666/

"But there are problems with this. The first is that Vicarius Filii Dei, or “Vicar of the Son of God,” is not now, nor has it ever been, a title of the bishop of Rome.

The second problem is that virtually no one, including many unsuspecting lay Catholics, knows that this papal “title” is a fabrication. To an untrained ear, it sounds enough like one of the pope’s real titles, Vicarius Christi (Vicar of Christ), to pass the test.

Unfortunately for those who traffic in this particular piece of pope fiction, the real title, Vicarius Christi, adds up to only a measly 214, not the infernal 666. In fact, none of the pope’s official titles, such as Servus Servorum Dei (Servant of the Servants of God), Pontifex Maximus (Supreme Pontiff), or Successor Petri (Successor of Peter), will add up to 666.

That’s why you never see any of them used by anti-Catholics.If the person making this claim disputes these facts, ask him to furnish even one example of a papal decree, ecclesiastical letter, conciliar statement, or any other official Catholic document in which the pope calls himself or is referred to as the “Vicar of the Son of God.” He won’t be able to find one, because none exist. Vicarius Filii Dei has never been a title of the pope."


That nonsense has been refuted countless times by more educated people than the charlatons that came up with that. More powerful people than the 7th Day Adventists have tried to bring the Church down. They're arguements are pathetic. People claimed John Paul was the anti Christ. The man is dead. That shot their theory to hell, so they had to refigure numbers to fit their anti Catholic stances.

[DeclinetoState]

Some people suggested Reagan was "The Beast," since his full name consisted of three names, each with 6 letters: Ronald Wilson Reagan. The fact that he almost died after being shot reinforced their ideas. His ultimate death (assumingly he's really dead, but let's not go "Elvis" here) all but shot down that notion.

There is another person who almost died in infancy, but has three names, each with six letters, who could thus be The Beast. That individual posts here under the alias of . . . DeclinetoState.

[DoctorDoom]

The Antichrist has already been identified. It's Barney. Since the Antichrist will be the ruler of the new Roman Empire, here's the proof, based on the Roman numeral system.<pre>1. What it Barney?
CUTE PURPLE DINOSAUR
2. Romans used V, not U, so convert.
CVTE PVRPLE DINOSAVR
3. Extract all Roman numerals:
CVTE PVRPLE DINOSAVR<br>CV V L DI V
4. Convert to our numbers:
I = 1; V = 5; L = 50; C = 100; D = 500
C V V L D I V<br>100 5 5 50 500 1 5
5. Add them: 500 + 100 + 50 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 1 = 666</pre>And there it is: proof that Barney is the Antichrist.

<hr>
As for the number of the beast:

666
Biblical Number of the Beast

660
Approximate Number of the Beast

DCLXVI
Roman Numeral of the Beast

665
Number of the Beast's Older Brother

667
Number of the Beast's Younger Sister

668
Number of the Beast's Neighbor

999
Number of the Australian Beast

333
Number of the Semi-Beast

66
Number of the Downsized Beast

6, uh..., I forget
Number of the Blond Beast

666.0000
Number of the High Precision Beast

665.9997856
Number of the Beast on a Pentium

0.666
Number of the Millibeast

X / 666
Beast Common Denominator

0.00150150...
Reciprocal of the Beast

-666
Opposite of the Beast

666i
Imaginary Number of the Beast

6.66 e+2
Scientific Notation of the Beast

25.8069758...
Square Root of the Beast

443556
Square of the Beast

1010011010
Binary Number of the Beast

1232
Octal of the Beast

29A
Hexidecimal of the Beast

2.8235
Log of the Beast

6.5913
Ln of the Beast

1.738 x 10^289
Anti-Log of the Beast

00666
Zip Code of the Beast

666@hell.org
E-mail Address of the Beast

www.666.com
Website of the Beast

1-666-666-6666
Phone & FAX Number of the Beast

1-888-666-6666
Toll Free Number of the Beast

1-900-666-6666
Live Beasts, available now! *One-on-one pacts! Only $6.66 per minute!* [Must by over 18]

666-66-6666
Social Security Number of the Beast

Form 10666
Special IRS Tax Forms for the Beast

66.6%
Tax Rate of the Beast

6.66%
6-Year CD Interest Rate at First Beast Bank of Hell, $666 minimum deposit, $666 early withdrawal fee

$666/hr
Billing Rate of the Beast's Lawyer

$665.95
Retail Price of the Beast

$699.25
Price of the Beast plus 5% State Sales Tax

$769.95
Price of the Beast with accessories and replacement soul

$656.66
Wal-Mart Price of the Beast

$646.66
Next week's Wal-Mart Price of the Beast

$55.50
Monthly Payments for the Beast, in 12 easy installments

Phillips 666
Gasoline of the Beast

Route 666
Highway of the Beast

666 mph
Speed Limit on the Beast's Highway

6-6-6
Fertilizer of the Beast

666 lb cap
Weight Limit of the Beast

666 Minutes
Weekly News Show about the Beast

666°F
Oven Temperature for Cooking "Roast Beast"

666k
Retirement Plan of the Beast

666 mg
Recommended Minimum Daily Requirement of Beast

Lotus 6-6-6
Spreadsheet of the Beast

Word 6.66
Word Processor of the Beast

Windows 666
Bill Gates' Personal Beast Operating System

i66686
CPU of the Beast

666-I
BMW of the Beast

IAM 666
License Plate Number of the Beast

Formula 666
All Purpose Cleaner of the Beast

WD-666
Spray Lubricant of the Beast

DSM-666 (rev)
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the Beast

66.6 MHz
FM Radio Station of the Beast

666 KHz
AM Radio Station of the Beast

66 for 6
A Beastly Score for an Inning (Cricket)

6 for 66
Bowling Figures of the Beast

6 for 66
A lousy batting average in Beastball

Thix Thixty Thix
Number of the Than Franthithco Beatht

[Wolfcounsel]

Wasn't it Mark Twain who said Moses and Middletown were associated with each other? Take the "iddletown out and add "oses". They both have the same first letter.

What in the hell good are our weapons, people, if we're going to store them up our asses instead of toppling the Beast with them?

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

My former pastor did a Biblical walkthrough of the Book of Revelation many years ago, and I seem to recall there actually being 3 prominent "figures" and 2 remarkable "things" associated with End Times. The three figures being: the Anti-Christ, the False Prophet, and the Beast. The two remarkable things: the Whore of Babylon, and the Mark of the Beast.

I assume many Christians have their own speculations as to identity of the Anti-Christ. I've always thought of the False Prophet as the figure who will lead the Ecumenical movement toward abolishing separate religions and rolling them into one, and the Anti-Christ as the figure who will unite the world under one government system (some refer to this as the New World Order).

Revelation offers a great opportunity for fascinating discussion, but I don't spend too much time worrying about that, or at least not the identity of the Anti-Christ. The Mark of the Beast, however, with the advent of technology such as microchips that can be placed under the skin, well that does concern me.

[DesertFox]

Drivers License Numbers were supposed to be the mark of the beast. The Social Security number was supposed to be the mark of the beat. Credit Cards were supposed to be the mark of the best. Real ID is now supposed to be the mark of the beast?:yeahthat:

I quit looking for clues about 30 years ago when it became obvious there's just too dang many of them. The Beast, like Chickenman, is everywhere.

[DeclinetoState]

It's utter bullshit. Vicarius Filii Dei, which produces the so called 666 number, is irrelevant because no such title actually exists for the Papacy. The whole arguement falls through right there.

Even an average, non Catholic Christian points this out:

http://arnold.gamboa.ph/2003/12/roman-pope-is-666/

"But there are problems with this. The first is that Vicarius Filii Dei, or “Vicar of the Son of God,” is not now, nor has it ever been, a title of the bishop of Rome.

This disputes that claim:
Again in the April 18th, 1915 edition of Our Sunday Visitor, Rev. John F. Noll, editor, the following question was addressed on page 3, in the section titled Bureau of Information:

What are the letters supposed to be in the Pope's crown, and what do they signify, if anything?

The letters inscribed in the Pope's mitre are these: Vicarius Filii Dei, which is the Latin for the Vicar of the Son of God. Catholics hold that the church which is a visible society must have a visible head. Christ, before His ascension into heaven, appointed St. Peter to act as His representative. Upon the death of Peter the man who succeeded to the office of Peter as Bishop of Rome, was recognized as the head of the Church. Hence to the Bishop of Rome, as head of the Church, was given the title "Vicar of Christ."

Enemies of the Papacy denounce this title as a malicious assumption. But the Bible informs us that Christ did not only give His Church authority to teach, but also to rule. Laying claim to the authority to rule in Christ's spiritual kingdom, in Christ's stead, is not a whit more malicious than laying claim to the authority to teach in Christ's name. And this every Christian minister does.

http://www.biblelight.net/OSV1915.gif

[DeclinetoState]

Unless the page from "Our Sunday Visitor" has been faked, the title "Vicarius Filii Dei" has been used for the Pope.

[DesertFox]

Mickey Gorbachev was spozed to be the beast, what with that birthmark and all; and now it turns out he's a Christian.

[DeclinetoState]

Well, this person is or has claimed to be a Christian, as well:

http://www.celebrityvalues.com/images/jane_fonda_300.jpg

I don't know if she has ever had the Mark of the Beast, though. Maybe she got rid of it when she dumped Ted Turner.

:evilgrin:

[DadaOrwell]

LOL well you can't say this subject hasn't generated a colorful discussion. The beast, whoever he might be, seems safe from detection if this thread is any indication.

[Maggie_T]

^^^^So you think the anti-christ will be the pope.


Oh, brother. Here we go again. :rolleyes:

Hang in there, my fellow Catholics. This too will pass.

[DoctorDoom]

FTR, the pope (whichever one will be reigning when it happens) will NOT be the Antichrist, for reasons outlined in post #21.

[CzechPrince]

This disputes that claim:

http://www.biblelight.net/OSV1915.gif

Vicarius Christi is the closest offical title to what those people are claiming.
Again, you can look in any Catholic encyclical that isn't nor has it ever been a title for any Pope. If you look at the tiara that supposedly has the writing on it, you're in for a shock: There isn't even any writing on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Isabellatiara.jpg

Here is another Tiara, again, no writing on it what so ever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pius_VII_tiara.jpg

A doctored photo and some math hardly add up to the Pope being the anti-Christ. The thing is no one knows who it will be. It's anyone's guess. But for people like the Seventh Day Adventists and some fringe Protestant sects to make such unfounded and uneducated assertions is absurd, and only hurts their beliefs.

The wikipedia article has all the sources listed on it at the bottom, so before anyone says this article isn't reliable, I made sure there was documentation before reading it. It does a very good job at exposing the myths and legends around the supposed sightings of the alleged, "tiara."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarius_Filii_Dei

[CzechPrince]

The physical Antichrist (as opposed to the spirit of antichrist - 1 John 4:3) is unlikely to be a religious figure. In order to broker the seven-year covenant between Israel and its enemies (Dan 9:27), the "the prince that shall come" (Dan 9:26) will have to be trusted by both sides. What religious figure can make that claim? Certainly not the pope.

IMO, he will be a political or business figure, viewed as neutral by all sides, and with great influence, power and charisma. He won't fit the standard perception of the Antichrist, which is how he'll achieve his evil without serious opposition.

Unless it doesn't happen for many, many more years, when Islamic extremism and even extreme Judaism are weeded out for the most part, but I don't see that happening. As much as John Paul II was respected by many in the Arab world, there were still lots who wanted him dead.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

LOL well you can't say this subject hasn't generated a colorful discussion. The beast, whoever he might be, seems safe from detection if this thread is any indication.\

Guess they'll just be more room in Heaven for you, then, won't there, :rolleyes:.

[DoctorDoom]

Don't count on it being delayed. The mideast is a powderkeg with a short fuse, and the match is lit. And the biblical end-time events center around Israel.

Re Islamic extremism, that's a meaningless phrase, since Islam itself is "extremist" if judged from a western/Christian perspective.

As for Jewish extremism, in view of the fact that the extermination of Israel has been an Arab obsession since Isreal became a sovereign nation on May 14, 1948, it is reasonable to expect that they would have exactly zero respect for, let alone trust in, the camel-raping barbarians.

A history lesson:

"This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades."
--Arab League Secretary General Azzam Pasha, May 15, 1948, the day five Arab armies invaded the new state of Israel, one day after the nation declared its independence

"The Arab nations should sacrifice up to 10 million of their 50 million people, if necessary, to wipe out Israel ... Israel to the Arab world is like a cancer to the human body, and the only way of remedy is to uproot it, just like a cancer."
--Saud ibn Abdul Aziz, King of Saudi Arabia, Associated Press, Jan. 9, 1954

"I announce from here, on behalf of the United Arab Republic people, that this time we will exterminate Israel."
--President Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt, speech in Alexandria, July 26, 1959

"We shall never call for nor accept peace. We shall only accept war. We have resolved to drench this land with your (Israel's) blood, to oust you as aggressor, to throw you into the sea."
--Hafez Assad, then-Syrian Defense Minister, May 24, 1966, who later became Syria's president.

"Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel."
--President Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt, May 27, 1967, nine days before the start of the Six-Day War.

"The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear -- to wipe Israel off the map."
--President Abdel Rahman Aref of Iraq, May 31, 1967

"All countries should wage war against the Zionists, who are there to destroy all human organizations and to destroy civilization and the work which good people are trying to do."
--King Faisal of Saudi Arabia, in a speech in Uganda, Beirut Daily Star, Nov. 17, 1972

"The battle with Israel must be such that, after it, Israel will cease to exist."
--Libyan President Mohammar Qadaffi, al-Usbu al-Arrabi (Beirut) quoted by Algiers Radio, Nov. 12, 1973

"After we perform our duty in liberating the West Bank and Jerusalem, our national duty is to liberate all the Arab-occupied territories."
--Jordan's King Hussein, Radio Amman, Dec. 1, 1973

"Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity is there only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new expedient to continue the fight against Zionism and for Arab unity."
--Zoheir Muhsin, head of the PLO Military Operations Department and member of the PLO Executive Council, 1977

"I have never met an Arab leader that in private professed a desire for an independent Palestinian state. Publicly, they all espouse an independent Palestinian state -- almost all of them -- because that is what they committed themselves to do at Rabat (the 1974 Arab League summit conference)."
--President Jimmy Carter, at a 1979 press conference

"There has been no change whatsoever in the fundamental strategy of the PLO, which is based on the total liberation of Palestine and the destruction of the occupying country. ... On no accounts will the Palestinians accept part of Palestine and call it the Palestinian state, while forfeiting the remaining areas which are called the State of Israel."
--Rafiq Najshah, PLO representative in Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabian News Agency, June 9, 1980

"The struggle with the Zionist enemy is not a struggle about Israel's borders, but about Israel's existence. We will never agree to anything less than the return of all our land and the establishment of the independent state."
--Bassam Abu Sharif, a top Arafat aide and PLO spokesman, quoted by the Kuwait News Agency, May 31, 1986

"There are two different approaches in the Arab world: that Israel can be overwhelmed militarily, or that a military victory is impossible. The power struggle between Israel and the Arabs is a long-term historical trial. Victory or defeat are for us questions of existence or annihilation, the outcome of an irreconcilable hatred."
--Al-Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, July 11, 1986

"The establishment of an independent Palestinian state on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip does not contradict our ultimate strategic aim, which is the establishment of a democratic state in the entire territory of Palestine, but rather is a step in that direction."
--Salah Khalaf (Abu Iyad) interview with Al-Safir, Lebanon, Jan. 25, 1988

"This is the ideology of the PLO and of Yasser Arafat: To destroy the state of Israel and to establish a Palestinian state instead. They will accept the territories -- but only as a beginning, as a base for further attacks to conquer all of Israel. Why give them this opportunity to strengthen their efforts to attack us?"
--Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir, U.S. News & World Report, March 21, 1988

"The armed struggle must continue, everywhere, against the Zionist enemy and his allies. ... We have no alternative but to carry out armed activity in order to vanquish the enemy and establish our state."
--Salim Zaanoun, Deputy PNC speaker and member of the Fatah Central Committee, in Al-Anba, Kuwait, Dec. 23, 1988

"The PLO will not stop the armed struggle."
--Yasser Arafat, June 6, 1989 at a press conference in Kuwait, Associated Press.

"The Middle East peace efforts have reached a stalemate. ... The PLO now has no alternative but to escalate armed struggle outside the occupied territories in support of the uprising."
--Arafat's number two man, Salah Khalaf, Jan. 22, 1990, Associated Press

"We will enter Jerusalem victoriously and raise our flag on its walls. ... We will fight you (the Israelis) with stones, rifles, and 'El-Abed' (the Iraqi missile)..."
--Yasser Arafat, reported by the Associated Press, March 29, 1990, at the start of the Gulf War

"In the name of Allah, we shall cause fire to devour half of Israel. ..."
--Iraqi News Agency, April 2, 1990

"We say to the brother and leader Saddam Hussein -- go forward with God's blessing."
--Yasser Arafat, the next day, Iraqi News Agency, April 3, 1990

'An irreconcilable hatred' (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=18764)

The list stops at 1990, but the Arabs' implacable hatred of Israel has continued to this very moment, and it has become even more psychotic. Iran's Imonajihad may be the most outspoken of Israel's enemies, but he speaks for all Muslims and Arabs.

Reading between the lines, it appears that the 7-year pact brokered by the Antichrist between Israel and its enemies will be accomplished to end a bloody war that will be forced on Israel by the moon-god worshippers. No religious leader could achieve that.

[Maggie_T]

Why so few Christians joining fight against The Mark?



I'd say it's because, thank God, most Christians have their head firmly screwed on their shoulders, and know better than going about proclaiming there's an Antichrist under every sofa. :rolleyes:

I'm firmly convinced that those who scream "Armageddon! The End is near!" after every natural disaster, as well as those who point and screech "The Antichrist!" at everyone they don't like, should swallow a pill for the nerves and take the day off.

Revelations is not another reality show. That kind of looniness only cheapens the Bible.

[DoctorDoom]

Revelation... is not another reality show.Not yet. However ...

[Suzie]

I hope the anti-Christ will be so kind as to just call it the "mark of the beast" so there's no confusion.

Ask Obama, I bet he knows. :biggrin:

[DeclinetoState]

If Obama's involved, does this mean the beast is a camel?

[Trovalor]

I hear about this theory now and again, but people keep saying its only a matter of time before they implement the installation of a chip into the human body at birth, usually in their hand, that would be used for all forms of ID and monetary exchange. Honestly this sounds like a liberal wet dream, as who would be the overseers of the funds? The Government of coarse, making it impossible for you to so much as buy a pack of gum without them making sure they get their cut.

IF this is the case, its obvious what the nature of the beast is, greed and control.

I don't know, but I sure do miss the idea of a barter/trade system, where you exchange goods in trade for other goods or services, where you get to know the people who you trade with, not relying on a faceless dollar and some disgruntled worker with a fake smile.

[Timberwolf]

Doc...per post #26...got too much time on yer hands??? LOL

[Timberwolf]

Quote: <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by PrezLeefun http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/../images/patriot/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/showthread.php?p=655413#post655413)
^^^^So you think the anti-christ will be the pope.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Oh, brother. Here we go again. :rolleyes:

Hang in there, my fellow Catholics. This too will pass.
Not to worry, Maggie check THIS (http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/showthread.php?t=53757) out...(posted on page 1 by MSGT). It is quite illuminating.

[DoctorDoom]

... I sure do miss the idea of a barter/trade system, where you exchange goods in trade for other goods or services ...No doubt it will be used by those who refuse to take the mark. However, they'll be hunted down and killed for it. Count on that.

[CONSERVATIVE HERO]

With the way events are unfolding I sometimes think the antichrist could be a new caliphate. The mention of beheadings and all that, the way the god of islam is placed above Christ who is reduced to a mere prophet, makes me think the antichrist could be a muslim. Global islam would result in satan achieving his goal of being elevated above God (at least on Earth).

Like I've said for years now, this too will be dumped on us in the name of security, and the people will eat it up with a spoon so they can have that all too false sense of extra security.
They're already doing this with children under the pretext of preventing kidnapping.

[DoctorDoom]

The only real impediment now is the older folks who oppose such things, the ones who still go to tellers in banks and pay cash for what they want. Radical new ideas are usually adopted once their opponents die. We have a generation now that never knew a time without computers and technology. They'll accept the mark without a qualm because of how it will be sold to them.

[DeclinetoState]

Vicarius Christi is the closest offical title to what those people are claiming.
Again, you can look in any Catholic encyclical that isn't nor has it ever been a title for any Pope. If you look at the tiara that supposedly has the writing on it, you're in for a shock: There isn't even any writing on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Isabellatiara.jpg

Here is another Tiara, again, no writing on it what so ever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pius_VII_tiara.jpg

A doctored photo and some math hardly add up to the Pope being the anti-Christ. The thing is no one knows who it will be. It's anyone's guess. But for people like the Seventh Day Adventists and some fringe Protestant sects to make such unfounded and uneducated assertions is absurd, and only hurts their beliefs.So the photocopy of the page from "Our Sunday Visitor," with the phrase "Vicarius Filii Dei," is fake or has been doctored?

(See also Wikipedia discussion of the question (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarius_Filii_Dei#Seventh-day_Adventist_Church_abandons_claim). Unfortunately, some of the most interesting statements are not supported, according to the article itself.)

[CzechPrince]

So the photocopy of the page from "Our Sunday Visitor," with the phrase "Vicarius Filii Dei," is fake or has been doctored?

That I cannot answer for sure. Photos of the papal tiara have been doctored and faked.

(See also Wikipedia discussion of the question (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarius_Filii_Dei#Seventh-day_Adventist_Church_abandons_claim). Unfortunately, some of the most interesting statements are not supported, according to the article itself.)?

[DadaOrwell]

I don't know, but I sure do miss the idea of a barter/trade system, where you exchange goods in trade for other goods or services, where you get to know the people who you trade with,

You should try it sometime. It's called the New Hampshire liberty community.

"Porcupine Trading Post"
http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?board=28.0