Does Race Matter?

[MaxLoad]

Sen. Obama continues to say the majority of voters will base their decision on 'substantive issues', not race.
Article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080312/ap_on_el_pr/obama_race)

But I've been listening to Rush today and there may be more to this issue than meets the eye. Was Ferraro's statement, about Obama's being black as the only reason he was doing so well, contrived? Article (http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=4435376&page=1)

On the surface it doesn't seem possible, but when the Klinton's are involved, who knows! It seems very fortuitus that now, since she is no longer a part of Mrs. Bill Klinton's campaign, she can now, shout to the rooftops anything that happens to come to mind about Obama!
Rush has suggested that she now knows what it's like to be a Republican!:rotflmbo:

Rush cited several polls asking blue collar voters if race was an issue for them in the upcoming election? Wow! If that's not playing the race card, what is? Rush said the poll asked if voters were ready for a black president. Article (http://hotair.com/archives/2008/03/05/exit-polls-did-race-win-it-for-hillary/)
I don't know if the voters perception of 'race' helped Mrs. Bill Klinton or not, but, I think it's a valid question.

Of course when you ask it, you're immediately called a racist. It's like a dirty little secret that no one can talk about. The same goes for a woman being president. But, you'll get the same cold shoulder when you ask that question too.

It's like the elephant in the middle of the room - no one will acknowledge it's there but you MUST work your way around it!.

[Kathy30]

There is not a doubt that the obamination's race is THE factor in his rise to fame and fortune. If the obamination wasn't black he'd be another John Edwards only not as pretty. His speeches would be empty liberal platitudes about class conflict.

Would blacks have voted for him they way they did if he wasn't black? He'd have to promise a lot more than 845 BILLION dollars to fight world poverty if he was.

[buzzthepug!]

He's black and he's promising trillions of dollars of hand-outs.

Obama supporters probably never heard of Dr. Alan Keyes because Keyes doesn' promise handouts. Plus, they'd call Keyes an Uncle Tom for acting "white" whatever that is.

Race shouldn't matter. Gender shouldn't matter either. Neither should sexual orientation. Those things only matter to libs.

[DesertFox]

No way race is THE dominant factor. It matters, but without Obama's charisma and speaking ability, nothing would help. Had race mattered all that much, Alan Keyes woulda won the whole thing back in 2k.

Main thing with race is liberal guilt. All them white libs want so badly to vote for a black man. They want to follow the Pied Piper, feeling all pure inside for trusting themselves to him with radiant, wide eyed, childlike innocence. That's how they see theirselfs, children trusting the Black Moses to lead them, and us, to the Promised Land. He will preach and they will bow their heads, tears in their eyes, the thrill of their own nobility shivering down their spines, accepting his steely-eyed judgment that they have not measured up to blah blah blah.

Make you wanna throw up.

[PrezLeefun]

^^^^^:yeahthat:

[buzzthepug!]

No way race is THE dominant factor. It matters, but without Obama's charisma and speaking ability, nothing would help. Had race mattered all that much, Alan Keyes woulda won the whole thing back in 2k.

Main thing with race is liberal guilt. All them white libs want so badly to vote for a black man. They want to follow the Pied Piper, feeling all pure inside for trusting themselves to him with radiant, wide eyed, childlike innocence. That's how they see theirselfs, children trusting the Black Moses to lead them, and us, to the Promised Land. He will preach and they will bow their heads, tears in their eyes, the thrill of their own nobility shivering down their spines, accepting his steely-eyed judgment that they have not measured up to blah blah blah.

Make you wanna throw up.


Yeah, that's it to a 'T'. Obama is a charismatic speaker. Plus, libs can't pass up the thought of receiving trillions of dollars in handouts.

[Neil Peart]

Race shouldn't matter. Gender shouldn't matter either. Neither should sexual orientation. Those things only matter to libs.Sexual orientation is not on the same level as race and gender. I know I'd have a tough time voting for a poofter. He or she would have to be REALLY good on the issues to get my vote.

[Gato es Verde]

I bet your average Republican wouldn't blink an eye at voting for Colin Powell. I don't like all of his politics all the time, but he's a stand-up guy and I respect the hell out of him. Which is a lot more than I can say for the candidates in this race.

Colin Powell is black. Big Secret right. It'd bother some I'm sure but it wouldn't even enter my mind and I bet it wouldn't for 60% of Gen-W, 70% of Gen-X, 80% of Gen-Y and so on.

Sooner or later it just becomes a matter of burying the past - literally. When the baby-boomers are gone, this becomes a non-issue.

[Neil Peart]

Sooner or later it just becomes a matter of burying the past - literally. When the baby-boomers are gone, this becomes a non-issue.Probably not, because Jesse, Al, and Kweisi will be passing on their ideological diarrhea to the next generation.

[MaxLoad]

I guess I'm still a little confused. Race is a positive thing for Obama? Hmmmmm... :question:
That is not the way I see it at all.

I understand why the libs are throwing every bit of guilt they can muster behind him to make sure they can sleep well after the election no matter which way it goes - If he wins, they will have a hero and one of 'theirs' will be at the head of the gravy train... If he loses, they can say they worked their tail off for the first black candidate for president.

My gut tells me that race is a negative aspect of Obama's candidacy, and nobody is discussing it. He may be running a fine race with honorable intentions and be the best orator since William Jennings Bryan, but he's still a black man.

I've been on this old rock a long time. I've lived thru all the civil unrest of the 50s, 60s and 70s. I've listened to friends and neighbors talk about the prospect of having either a black man or a woman in the Oval Office.

I just can't see people, at least in the neighborhoods I have lived in, as being ready to have a black man as their 'commander in chief'. Racism is still very much alive and well in America, whether anyone wants to believe it or not. I just can't imagine that tensions and memories are that easily forgotten.

I still say it's an 'elephant in the middle of the room' that no one wants to acknowledge.

If he's the candidate and if he's elected, I'll be the first one to shake my head in disbelief.

[The_Sonarman]

Race doesn't matter.

The problem with Mr. Obama is, he is extremely weak on experience that would prepare him to shoulder the presidency. It isn't an easy job. He hasn't managed a company, he hasn't been governor of a state. The only thing he has going for him is, he's the black guy.

He and his wife are also American Haters. They have no cause to be. They are both have done very well in Evil America. They are both wimp whiners.

So, that makes me a racist bigot homophone flesh eating white male chauvinist pig.

[BarkleUSA]

...I have no problem with Obama's color - it's his past and the people that have molded and shaped his political assention that scares the bajeevers out of me. Those enchanted by well delivered speeches of hope and change should do their homework and realize that Obama's mentors and associates read like a who's who on FBI and Homeland Security watchlists.

Having never owned slaves, I refuse to buy into this "white guilt" mindset which on balance has been counter productive to those of color. A mind IS a terrible thing to waste.

(As for Colin Powell, his military service to our country is stellar, his performance in the Bush Administration a mixed-bag. He deserves respect for having demonstrated the dignity and discretion to bow out and lay low when it became clear he had nothing further to contribute to the Bush administration.)

[buzzthepug!]

Sexual orientation is not on the same level as race and gender. I know I'd have a tough time voting for a poofter. He or she would have to be REALLY good on the issues to get my vote.


I mean a candidate should not run for public office on a gay platform (I can hear the jokes now). We should never know a candidate is gay. They need to not be so vocal about their orientation.

[DesertFox]

Racism is still very much alive and well in America, whether anyone wants to believe it or not. I just can't imagine that tensions and memories are that easily forgotten.If you mean black racism, I agree with you to an extent; if you mean white racism, I don't agree unless you mean fools like David Duke on the outermost fringes of society. They constitute a miniscule, nugatory proportion of the white population.

The big majority of America has had an ongoing love affair with blackness since the Sixties, climbing to the heights during the Michael Jackson Eighties and reaching its apex during the Michael Jordan Nineties. Blacks are accepted in all walks of life with no qualification. They head major corporations and dominate major segments of the popular culture.

White racism is far from an institution, as it once was. Today it's almost a curiosity.

[MaxLoad]

If you mean black racism, I agree with you to an extent; if you mean white racism, I don't agree unless you mean fools like David Duke on the outermost fringes of society. They constitute a miniscule, nugatory proportion of the white population.

The big majority of America has had an ongoing love affair with blackness since the Sixties, climbing to the heights during the Michael Jackson Eighties and reaching its apex during the Michael Jordan Nineties. Blacks are accepted in all walks of life with no qualification. They head major corporations and dominate major segments of the popular culture.

White racism is far from an institution, as it once was. Today it's almost a curiosity.

I just can't agree with that analysis. My eyes tell me different. My ears tell me different. If you continue to believe that racism is dead, you're sadly mistaken.

As for white racism or black racism, it's all related to hate. Whites may not hate blacks as much as they once did, after all, the passing of generations does muddy the memories, but the mistrust, the disdain, the revulsion is still there. I see it every day. And, I don't live on the fringes of society.

As for black racism, it's alive and well also. If you're a caucasian, just walk in an ethnic part of any big city. You'll feel it. You may even be asked by a passerby, 'don't you know better than to come down here?'

You can choose to ignore the elephant as you will. This is America - you can believe what you want.

As for me, I wonder when... we're going to be forced to deal with it once and for all.

I just don't believe this election is where we deal with it - but, I've been wrong before.

[TeenageRepublican]

Does Race Matter?


Me: no. White guys can enjoy fried chicken just as much as a black guy can in my mind.
Liberals: Yes. Because blacks are discriminated against every day. How dare you arrest a black man for breaking the law!
Electing a black president will be the best thing for this country!

[TeenageRepublican]

And yes, I used a stereotype for my example. Sue me.

[edgeworth]

No, at least to me its not, of course I can really only speak for myself as I can't read anybody elses mind. I really could care less about a persons skin color. I mean, its just an extra dose of melanin in the skin to protect against the sun's rays. What really matters to me are the persons policies and beliefs about America. Whether they're an african american, a woman, or someone with a different sexual orientation than me is really irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

[MaxLoad]

Whether they're an african american, a woman, or someone with a different sexual orientation than me is really irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

That reminds me... Why are black people still called African-Americans?

Why aren't people from other countries still called Irish-Americans, or German-Americans, or Canadien-Americans?

Isn't it because people have chosen over time to drop the ethnicity part of 'type'-American? Haven't they dropped the type because they have come to understand that they're just, Americans?

Why do black people still want to be 'separate'?
Why do white people need to describe a black man with the 'type' of American he is?

We're not the same, blacks and whites - different color skin, different culture, different history.
But we're not separate. We're all just Americans.

This is part of the uneasy feeling I get when people say race is not an issue. It's still there - staring all of us in the face.

[Beowulf]

Race has never been an issue with me. I've worked with blacks, whites, Hispanics, orientals and others. You know what? There are just as many idiots amongst whites as their are in minority groups.

I don't see Osama using the race card. I DO see the Clinton camp using it. I hope to God that Osama loses in November but I will give him this much, he is a good speaker.

He's black and he's promising trillions of dollars of hand-outs.
IMO, this is bribery. He promises these kinds of handouts which will buy him votes in November. That's my problem with minorities, they all think we owe them something and for that reason don't see the need to work for an honest living.

[edgeworth]

That reminds me... Why are black people still called African-Americans?

Why aren't people from other countries still called Irish-Americans, or German-Americans, or Canadien-Americans?

Isn't it because people have chosen over time to drop the ethnicity part of 'type'-American? Haven't they dropped the type because they have come to understand that they're just, Americans?

Why do black people still want to be 'separate'?
Why do white people need to describe a black man with the 'type' of American he is?

We're not the same, blacks and whites - different color skin, different culture, different history.
But we're not separate. We're all just Americans.

This is part of the uneasy feeling I get when people say race is not an issue. It's still there - staring all of us in the face.

You make a good point. Though I have known some people who want to be identified with their original culture it isn't really that common.

[DesertFox]

If you continue to believe that racism is dead, you're sadly mistaken.Um, I didn't say anywhere that racism is dead. NOTHING in human affairs ever dies. You can find racism if you're alert to it, as you can find love and flower children and hot coffee.

But much of what is ascribed to racism isn't racism at all, but rather ignorance or mental malfunction. Your average racist deliberately shuts out whole ranges of facts that disprove any logic or rationality in his thinking. He is motivated by an inner hatred that, Chomskylike, isn't related to reality and seldom has any real connection with the objects of his racism.

That isn't the way most people go about living their lives. Sure, there is still white racism in America; but if you think white racism blankets America the way it did in the Fifties and before, you are the one who is sadly mistaken. It just doesn't, and the differences between then and now are the elephant in the room of American politics. Generally speaking, and with exceptions such as yourself, only white and black racists (aka liberals) want to insist that nothing has changed.

[Wyatt_Junker]

Colin Powell is black.

I always thought of him as slightly jaundiced.

http://www.facade.com/celebrity/photo/Colin_Powell.jpg

Or sepia-toned with a very subtle layer of green.

http://zioneocon.blogspot.com/colin%20powell%20bantustan.jpg

[Wyatt_Junker]

Obama will have a much harder time being elected not because he's black, but because he's a woman. No, make that a lipstick lesbian.

According to the DSM IV, he has a psychological affinity with Ellen Degeneres both emotionally and physically.

He's says homo shit. Gay homo shit.

His rhetoric is infused with 'audacity' and John Lennon-ish 'imagine' and David Bowie 'change' who was almost a hermaphrodite himself.

His rhetoric is so sensitive that it makes white women liberals cry in their knockoff Gucci handbags.

The sensitive gene; the redistribution of wealth, the 'po' and the 'rich' - that kind of raw evil can only be pulled off with a smile, someone with good teeth and manicured speech. Otherwise we will be reminded of Russian gulags. So, in order to keep us dumb, it must be pulled off by a slice of man beefcake loaf with inner gay. That's not as threatening as Stalin.

And Barry(as gay a name as that is) is just the fag to pull it off.

[Kathy30]

Whites may not hate blacks as much as they once did, after all, the passing of generations does muddy the memories, but the mistrust, the disdain, the revulsion is still there. I see it every day. And, I don't live on the fringes of society.



I don't live on the fringes of society. I live in an extremely multicultural city. Whites are 20% of this city and I see mistrust, disdain and outright revulsion of black people every day from every one.

This is not a matter of color. It is a matter of BEHAVIOR. Specifically black behavior. When a black man wearing baggies and a hooded sweatshirt walks into the shop, my hand automatically goes to the protection I keep under the counter. In this, I am like each and every business owner in the city. Is this racisim? Not hardly, but it is mistrust, disdain and outright revulsion.

IF blacks would stop committing so many crimes people of every other color and ethnicity would stop mistrusting them. IF the black community would stop protecting the criminals, excusing their crimes and blaming racisim for every criminal charge or social slight these perceptions would lessen.

I know individuals, Philippinos, Koreans, mexicans, Chinese, all sorts of people who go so far as to avoid even speaking to black people because they are afraid that something they say will be construed as a racial slight. This is mistrust, disdain and outright revulsion.

It is incidents like a black woman suing the City of Los Angeles because she saw a police officer eating a banana and found it racially insensitive. The couple who sued an airline because a flight attendant said "Eeny Meeny miny moe, take a seat we gotta go". That's what causes mistrust, disdain and outright revulsion.

Stop the racisim BS and address what's really happening. The black community is hemming itself in with needing to believe in racisim.

[MaxLoad]

... You can find racism if you're alert to it, as you can find love and flower children and hot coffee.

I have never gone looking for flower children, and I don't know a soul that has. Love? It's all around me. I don't need to go looking for it.
Hot coffee? I have some right here. I would suggest that nearly every home in my neighborhood has coffee in the cupboard. I guess I miss your connection. How does one scarce thing, flower children, relate to one commonly found thing, coffee? And then the comparison with racism... Hmmmm. Man, that's deep!

But much of what is ascribed to racism isn't racism at all, but rather ignorance or mental malfunction. Your average racist deliberately shuts out whole ranges of facts that disprove any logic or rationality in his thinking. He is motivated by an inner hatred that, Chomskylike, isn't related to reality and seldom has any real connection with the objects of his racism.
Nobody ever said the racism was rational. I said it was still there and people were ignoring it. Comments like this serve to only have the listener's eyes glaze over and nod off.

... Sure, there is still white racism in America; but if you think white racism blankets America the way it did in the Fifties and before, you are the one who is sadly mistaken. I agree that the KKK is no longer the force it once was. The obvious racism of years past has just taken another form. You may believe it has been eradicated or beaten back in most of America - I beleive that people have realized they can't speak openly about their hatred anymore and have taken it to the closet.

Generally speaking, and with exceptions such as yourself, only white and black racists (aka liberals) want to insist that nothing has changed.
White racism has taken on the form I mentioned above. It's gone underground. It's only talked about among family members and never in public.

Black racism has taken an entirely different turn. For example, here's a black man that hates America, hates white people and preaches that venom in his church every Sunday. Article (http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/14/obamas-spiritual-adviser-questioned-us-role-in-spread-of-hiv-sept-11-attacks/)
The 'reverend' Wright in his sermons has said, “We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki. And we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye,” Wright said.

“We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because of stuff we have done overseas is now brought back into our own backyard. America is chickens coming home to roost.”

The pastor also said: “The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.”
Trying to separate the 'reverend' Wright's evangelical rantings from his hatred of America is a chore. I can't seem to find a breath between his G-- Damn America's!

So, yes, black racism is with us - on the street corner, in the music, and at the pulpit.
I don't think anybody needs to be alert to it.

And, I believe it's going to play a very big part in this election.
Maybe you should go out more often?

[DesertFox]

Go out more often? Dude, I live among people of all races, right in my own neighborhood. People from all over. Black people married to white people. Iraqis Muslims. Iraqi Christians. Laotians. Mexicans. Russians. My own wife's Salvadoran. Next door, across the street, up and down the street, people from everywhere, a regular potpourri of color, of languages, of cultures, of funny ways of dressing, of odd ways of seeing the world, of things to get offended over, of things to snicker at behind close doors, of stuff to admire, of people to like even though -- and sometimes because -- they're different. Racially different. Nationally different. Ethnically different. We even used to have a queer couple on the corner that has since moved.

I grew up among black people. My niece is blacker'n coal. I speak better ghetto than my black colleague at work. There is nothing about blacks, blackness in America, or black racism in America that I don't know as well as or better than you. Take your supercilious attitude and put it where the sun don't shine.

Nobody ever said the racism was rational. True. You never said that. I said that.

I said it was still there and people were ignoring it. Ignoring -- what? You never have said which color of racism you're talking about, leaving the reader to infer that it's white racism. I directly addressed the issue of white racism, but it seems to have gone right over your head. Try again: White racism is there, but it's marginal. It's far from mainstream. As opposed to black racism, which appears to be mainstream.

Comments like this serve to only have the listener's eyes glaze over and nod off. Comments such as yours only serve to show that some people -- that means you -- can't seem to respond civilly in discussion but have to get edgy. Okay, you started it. You can back off that attitude or we can fight.

[MaxLoad]

Go out more often? Dude, I live among people of all races, right in my own neighborhood. People from all over. Black people married to white people. Iraqis Muslims. Iraqi Christians. Laotians. Mexicans. Russians. My own wife's Salvadoran. Next door, across the street, up and down the street, people from everywhere, a regular potpourri of color, of languages, of cultures, of funny ways of dressing, of odd ways of seeing the world, of things to get offended over, of things to snicker at behind close doors, of stuff to admire, of people to like even though -- and sometimes because -- they're different. Racially different. Nationally different. Ethnically different. We even used to have a queer couple on the corner that has since moved.

I grew up among black people. My niece is blacker'n coal. I speak better ghetto than my black colleague at work. There is nothing about blacks, blackness in America, or black racism in America that I don't know as well as or better than you. Take your supercilious attitude and put it where the sun don't shine
Excuse me! My experiences in life are meaningless. I have nothing to offer the world. You oh master are the all seeing, all knowing. I certainly didn't mean to offend you. I did not realize you were a black person. I beg you pardon.

[Uncle Ruckus]

Lost at birth... What a difference a few days makes.

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[Kathy30]

Fortunately liberal whites who reject obamination have found a convenient out of the racisim rat race. It's sexisim. They can say with a great deal of self-delusion that they reject obama not because they are racist, but because they are not sexist and want a woman to win. Calling Hillary and Geraldine Ferraro racists only makes the obamination a sexist.

[RogerFGay]

But I've been listening to Rush today and there may be more to this issue than meets the eye.

Rush is supporting Hillary. Everybody knows it.

:noggin: