Is a government controlled military really a good thing?

[Matt M.]

I'm in favor of small government which is why I'm not sure letting the government have a monopoly on force is a good thing. With so much power the government is unstoppable and politicians become controllers instead of servants to the American people.

Already we suffer the burden of high tax that goes to support a massive and inefficient infrastructure of unnecessary public programs as well as the massive national military. We are far too close to Socialism in this nation for my liking, and we are only getting closer. Yet what can the American people do about it? Nothing, because the government has total control over a massive military force and infringes on our right to bear arms. Our military is essentially a socialist institution and so long as it stays that way I'm afraid the USA will continue to slide towards Socialism, given that the people are powerless to resist government expansion.

[Neil Peart]

The difference between a military and some other things the government does is that the government is actually authorized IN THE CONSTITUTION to establish a military. The military is one of the few things that belongs in gov't hands.

[The_Sonarman]

Is a government controlled military really a good thing?

It's better than a military free to do what it wants. We've seen several examples of such. In each case, the military has overthrown and replaced the government from time to time. Sometimes that was 'good', most of the time it was 'bad'.

This is the reason for the second amendment.... to leave the citizens armed well enough to keep the government in check.

I doubt the founders imagined a US military with single weapons that can destroy an entire city. That's one of the reasons it's a tough job. One has to operate and obey the normal, "legal" orders of civilian authority, even if that civilian authority knows nothing of military strategy, and in fact is a complete idiot. Re: Bill Clinton.

However, I "trust" that our US military lads and lasses wouldn't obey an illegal order to fire on US Citizens. I "trust" they would stand aside if it ever became necessary for a civilian delegation to remove Congressional tyrants from office. That being said, I hope we never have to do that.

[Naturalized-Texan]

Another point: Civilian control over the military is a vital part of our heritage. That means that the military can't legally do anything that their civilian commanders oppose. Of course, most of the time the civilian commanders work closely with the military commanders to help ensure that they don't do anything stupid. Unfortunately, we lost the Vietnam War because LBJ's civilians ignored the military commanders.

[Matt M.]

Thanks for reminding me of that Neil. Clearly the Constitution provides strong backing for federal armies.

The issue for me is that I just don't trust our politicians. Mao Zedong said "Political power flows from the barrel of a gun", and we know the atrocities committed under his leadership. That's why I have a desire to keep politicians separated from guns and armed force. It gives them more power than I trust them with having.

"Civilian control over the military is a vital part of our heritage."
I agree civilians should control the military. However I'm not sure those civilians should be politicians. Obviously the greatest problem with my dislike of government power is coming up with an alternative.

[Naturalized-Texan]

"Civilian control over the military is a vital part of our heritage."
I agree civilians should control the military. However I'm not sure those civilians should be politicians. Obviously the greatest problem with my dislike of government power is coming up with an alternative.
Technically, the civilians who control the military are not politicians, but appointees who are chosen for their expertise in the field (e.g., Rumsfeld, Gates as Defense Secretaries). I would really be disturbed if the politicians in Congress controlled the military.

[Matt M.]

I hear Obama and Hillary talking about military actions such as troop removal. Those two politicians obviously aren't experts in military fields but that apparently doesn't prevent them from making military decisions.

[jayson]

However, I "trust" that our US military lads and lasses wouldn't obey an illegal order to fire on US Citizens. I "trust" they would stand aside if it ever became necessary for a civilian delegation to remove Congressional tyrants from office. That being said, I hope we never have to do that.

If we ever devolved into Martial Law, I think that the military would split into two: one part with the patriot soldiers and commanders who refuse to follow their obviously sour orders. On the other hand, you have the people who will follow orders simply because the authority figure tells them to. See the Milgram Experiment here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

Just look at Katrina, we had National Guard troops who were going door to door confiscating registered weapons at gunpoint from anyone and everyone. No search warrants, no prior cause to confiscate them, just a massive blanket of soldiers busting down doors and taking any guns they could find.

When CNN ran the story, they asked the troops what they thought about being deployed with weapons in America. Most of them were terribly unhappy about doing it... but they did it anyway because the authority at the top ordered them to.

Scary to say the least. In the end, I trust the military (as an establishment) more than the government... at least the majority of the military is made up of people like me. The government, filled with its employees who are only there for self-interest and to corrupt, is a much greater threat to our freedom and individual rights.

[Naturalized-Texan]

I hear Obama and Hillary talking about military actions such as troop removal. Those two politicians obviously aren't experts in military fields but that apparently doesn't prevent them from making military decisions.
That is why we conservatives must do everything in our power to ensure that neither Hillary or Obama get to the White House. In other words, Vote for McCain.

[The_Sonarman]

Thanks for reminding me of that Neil. Clearly the Constitution provides strong backing for federal armies.

The issue for me is that I just don't trust our politicians.

I don't trust politicians, either. We're in good company, BTW. The Founding Fathers didn't trust politicians, either. That is why they crafted a weak central government, which checks and balances on each branch's powers.

Mao Zedong said "Political power flows from the barrel of a gun", and we know the atrocities committed under his leadership. That's why I have a desire to keep politicians separated from guns and armed force. It gives them more power than I trust them with having.

That, of course, might be desireable. However, how do you select those you put in charge of the military? I'm not saying elected officials are optimum, but I can't easily imagine a replacement system.

"Civilian control over the military is a vital part of our heritage."
I agree civilians should control the military. However I'm not sure those civilians should be politicians. Obviously the greatest problem with my dislike of government power is coming up with an alternative.

Once again, we'd have to come up with some other system of selecting and appointing the person or persons in authority over our military forces. Currently, it is POTUS.

While we're at it, this is "yet another" check on government power. We have all heard of the three branches.... the executive, legislative and judiciary essentially as "checks" on each other. The military's "check on power" is a civilian commander in chief, in the person of POTUS.

Occasionally, we get an idiot POTUS in power. "The Military" and "The Country" has had to suffer an idiot POTUS from time to time, and will suffer such again in the future. The best Commander in Chief is one who realizes "he/she" isn't an expert in the profession of arms and armed force. That is what the senior people in the military are for.... both senior officers and senior enlisted. A smart POTUS is one who makes use of those experts experience in military force. At the President's level, that takes the form of advise from certain senior flag rank officers.

[Plain Old Dave]

I have a Third Way:

Repeal the National Guard Act of 1916 (?). The National Guards of the several States would become State Militias, and the Reserve Components would remain unchanged with the exception of the Air National Guard, which would be accessioned into the Air Force Reserve.

Why?

1) This would return some power back to the Sovreign States.

2) Would ensure the backing of a concurrent majority for any long-term overseas adventures; the state Governor would have to release the State Militia to the Federal Gov't.

3) State militias would much less likely IMHO to blindly follow orders from Federal authority.

[Taylor1]

That is why we conservatives must do everything in our power to ensure that neither Hillary or Obama get to the White House. In other words, Vote for McCain.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU. :claps::claps::claps::claps::claps::claps: I WILL NOT HAVE BROC OBAMA IN THE WHITE HOUSE, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE HIGHEST CHAIR ON THIS PLANET (except for maybe russia but we could probably kick their ass) etc etc please, don't let this happen. I don't want to raise my children in the conditions that Iraq had their children in.

[Naturalized-Texan]

I have a Third Way:

Repeal the National Guard Act of 1916 (?). The National Guards of the several States would become State Militias, and the Reserve Components would remain unchanged with the exception of the Air National Guard, which would be accessioned into the Air Force Reserve.

Why?

1) This would return some power back to the Sovreign States.

2) Would ensure the backing of a concurrent majority for any long-term overseas adventures; the state Governor would have to release the State Militia to the Federal Gov't.

3) State militias would much less likely IMHO to blindly follow orders from Federal authority.
There is no way that would be viable in the dangerous world in which we live - under a constant threat from IslamoFascist terrorism. The federal government MUST be able to quickly mobilize the reserves and National Guard units to defend the American people from attack, e.g., to respond to the 9/11 attacks by fighting the ongoing Global War on Terror - World War IV.

[Naturalized-Texan]

THANK YOU. THANK YOU. :claps::claps::claps::claps::claps::claps: I WILL NOT HAVE BROC OBAMA IN THE WHITE HOUSE, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE HIGHEST CHAIR ON THIS PLANET (except for maybe russia but we could probably kick their ass) etc etc please, don't let this happen. I don't want to raise my children in the conditions that Iraq had their children in.
I have grandkids - a granddaughter 10, a grandson 5 - and I don't want them to have to live in the conditions that Iraq had their children in. That's why I have no choice but to vote for John McCain.

[Taylor1]

I have grandkids - a granddaughter 10, a grandson 5 - and I don't want them to have to live in the conditions that Iraq had their children in. That's why I have no choice but to vote for John McCain.

Great man I tell you. This can't happen.

There is no way that would be viable in the dangerous world in which we live - under a constant threat from IslamoFascist terrorism. The federal government MUST be able to quickly mobilize the reserves and National Guard units to defend the American people from attack, e.g., to respond to the 9/11 attacks by fighting the ongoing Global War on Terror - World War IV.

I believe that we can rely on the US Gov't only for so long and so much for security.

I mean, I've gotta give them credit, they are trying and if you take a look at some of these sites, you can't deny it really.

http://www.jtfcs.northcom.mil/
http://www.arnorth.army.mil/
http://www.northcom.mil/links.html

P.S. we actually have the military and not just border patrol here.
http://www.jtfn.northcom.mil/subpages/gallery.html

Oh yeah and it looks like they've got enough trucks there to power a few reasonably sized houses for a few days.