Why do conservatives support Israel?

[Rhino]

Justaguy
Forum Host
posts: 64
(2/10/01 10:13:08 pm)
| Del All Why do conservatives support Israel?
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Jews in america voted in impressive numbers against conservative candidates and are on the fore-front opposing most every conservative idea. 90 billion dollars have been spent in the last 40+ years to prop Israel up. That's tax money that we're paying interest on. I won't even go into the history of the region. Frankly, I don't understand it.


Nolan Void
Gold Star Member
posts: 53
(2/10/01 10:50:32 pm)
| Del We're conservative, that's why.
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We support Israel because we have a national interest in the region. Our policy views won't change simply because American Jews do not support us on domestic issues.


WarLady1
Owner/ezOP/Moderator
posts: 1413
(2/10/01 11:16:23 pm)
| Del
Re: We're conservative, that's why.
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Many Jews are for gun control too. Go figure.


Jack Rail
Gold Star Member
posts: 79
(2/11/01 1:47:46 am)
| Del Er, ...
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Israel is one issue, American Jews another.


Justaguy
Forum Host
posts: 65
(2/11/01 3:35:12 am)
| Del Re: Er, ...
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Yep, Israel is one issue and American Jews is another. How many American Jews support Israel do you suppose? What vital American interest is inhanced with our continued support of Israel?



WarLady1
Owner/ezOP/Moderator
posts: 1414
(2/11/01 6:25:42 am)
| Del
Re: Er, ...
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Jack I was under the impression that we were only discussing Israel. American Jews were not in the question.


Justaguy
Forum Host
posts: 75
(2/12/01 6:42:00 am)
| Del Re: Er, ...
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Yeah,
My reference to American Jews was simply to point out that the group with the most interest in seeing the united States support Israel was exactly the same group that opposes most of the conservative agenda. My question is, why do conservatives support Israel. I think it's either because of the News media's never ending Pro-Israel slant, or it's because conservatives, many of whom are christian, have bought into the idea that jews returning to israel is the same as Israel returing to Israel. Therefore, as a christian nation we must support Israel. I have a counter argument for that one.


JAMES1776
Gold Star Member
posts: 54
(2/12/01 11:05:23 am)
| Del Re: Why do conservatives support Israel?
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This conservative supports Israel simply because they are the only civilized society south of Turkey in the region. Israel, european style democracy. All the rest, dictatorships left over from the middle ages.


Justaguy
Forum Host
posts: 78
(2/13/01 12:02:06 am)
| Del Re: Why do conservatives support Israel?
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How do you figure they're a civilized society? Have you ever looked at the history of the country for the last 50+ years? Their mistreatment of the Palestinians is epic in proportion. Their flagrant disregard for UN resolutions is legendary (about 65 current violations at the time of this note). Their institutional bigotry is much akin to South Africa's in the 60's. So how is it that they are a cilvilized society? People say " oh but they're a modern country." Well, 10 million American Tax dollars a day being injected into a country of 5 million people certainly can make for a modern country.


absinthe
Gold Star Member
posts: 87
(2/13/01 7:15:10 am)
| Del civilized?
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It took the northern part of the US a great amount of time to impose its will on the south. It took Isreal mere years to alienate and subdue the indiginious people in the area. An to top it off, they use their religion as a reason while keeping a perfectly nonpartisan business relationship with the world.


Geldhaben
New Member
posts: 3
(2/13/01 12:19:20 pm)
| Del Problem Solved
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This problem is easy to solve. Let's switch the Jews. The US gets the Jews living in Israel, and all the current American Jews go *to* Israel. This answers all the problems. The imported Israeli Jews will likely be more conservative than the current lot. Might even vote Republican. I know Sharon would (Good fellow, this Sharon). And all the socialist, leftist Jews in this country could then be a majority in Israel and could give the Palestinians everything they want. And because the only thing that Palestinians *really* want is to kill all Jews, that means the Communist American Jews would be done away with in short order. This way. Everyone is happy. America gets Israel's conservative Jews. Thus, Hillary loses in the next NY election. Liberal peacenik Jews get the opportunity to try out their idiot ideas. And the Palestinians get to kill off all the Jews left in Israel after they take over.


absinthe
Gold Star Member
posts: 97
(2/17/01 1:53:34 am)
| Del
Re: Problem Solved
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Quote:
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...And because the only thing that Palestinians *really* want is to kill all Jews, that means the Communist American Jews would be done away with in short order. This way. Everyone is happy. America gets Israel's conservative Jews. ...
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Interesting....it seems that the opposite is true.

It appears that the population if Isreal, (Jew), has a death wish towards the Palestinians that is in line with their Nazi nemisis'.

OK, that was wrong of me, ....it's not the population---as I cannot ever espouse to know what the populace thinks. But in like terms, you cannot ever realistically claim to know the intentions of the Palestinians in that same a
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BEST45CAL
Forum Host Beastie
posts: 193
(2/20/01 5:17:02 am)
| Del
Re: Why do conservatives support Israel?
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Because it's the only democracy in the area. Besides, there are also biblical implications that warn against letting that part of the world go to the wolves.
"Wise men learn more from fools than fools learn from the wise."


absinthe
Forum Host
posts: 142
(3/1/01 3:48:48 am)
| Del
Re: Why do conservatives support Israel?
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when debating this subject..none of us can discount the media. We can never presume to know what the actual populace thinks. A US News&World Report had a listing that 76% of the US was against abortion. I looked at the polling agency, (Harris Interactive), and found that only 1013 people were polled. Interesting since I'm on the Harris polling list and never once got a request for that polling as usual.

Aside from that, the religous implications are the stuff wars are made of. You mention biblical implications......true but they are tomes of dispute themselves. If everyone agrees to let religious 'certainties' into this, then the US has an obligation to stay out.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

New info has come to light.. The Ireali people are protesting now realising that a war is in the works. The palastinians are a passion driven people as are the jews. Its easy to see a war break out where every person sids with their own.

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Pity is the practice of nihilism.--Nietzsche

[DesertFox]

Sounds callous to say it, but war is the only restorative I can see over there.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I agree although I worry about the Nuke capability of the Isrealies being but to the test. Any given passioned people will goto the 'last resort' when all else fails

(nice spelling I had up there

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Israel can't use nukes against the palestinians for two reasons. First is proximity. Israel is a tiny country. If she nukes the palestinians she nukes herself. Second is world opinion, and most importantly, American opinion. If Israel nukes the palestinians it will cause the American people to take notice and many will try to understand what all the fighting is about. Israel CAN'T afford that. Israel can't even overtly ethnic cleanse( which is what she's been about for 60 years) She has to do it with stealth.

Back to the question though... what national interests do we have in this region that are inhanced and not crippled by our continued obscene support of Israel?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Just, easy...we have one main national interest. We have the complete allied support and base of operations of a single country in an otherwise sketchy theater of operations. You know I don't support this but that is the valid reasion for the gov't support. It is also the onlyreason that comes to common thought.

As far as the upper portion of your statement...true in a relaxed sense. One must realise that Isreal has some serious offence/defence capabilities. For the minute amount of land they control, they have a massive war reserve. Isreal has shown an ability to pull at the heart strings of world sympathies.

Isreal cannot resist an onslaught of their neighbors. Hell, the Syrians have been itching for a shot after all the Mossaad put them through. Isreal cannot withstand a direct invasion. Period.

They would be overwealmed. They are also an empassioned people. Any given empassioned people will use their 'last resort' when their fall is eminent.

If your death is soon coming, would you not use every resource to destabalise your foes?


It is this passion that threatens the world.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Good point. I can see them using nukes in an end-game scenario. I can't see them using them for any other reason.

I don't think we'd have such a "sketchy" environment here if it weren't for our continued support of Israel. We've shown that we can work well with Arab countries (Egypt, Jordan, and ... Saudi Arabia come to mind...) The biggest problem they have with the US, as best I can tell, is our support of Israel. They see us as supporting invaders, aggressors, and oppressors. It's kinda hard to argue with that.

What exactly have we gotten for our 90 billion dollars? Stability in the middle east? Loyal allies (mark Rich, Johnathan Pollard, Technology Transfers to China, Richard Smyth)?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

yes, this is a problem that can only be resolved with the back-room negotiations.


Till next time..later! Im off to Fairbanks.