Walter Williams explains why socialism doesn't work

[Neil Peart]

http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/WalterEWilliams/2008/06/25/problem_of_ignorance

I have no idea of the number of traffic signals in our country, but whatever the number, how many of my fellow Americans would like the U.S. Congress to be in charge of their operation? Congress, or a committee they authorize, would determine the length of time red stays red and green stays green and what hours of the day they can be flashing red. Or, how many Americans would like Congress to be in charge deciding what items, in what quantities, your local supermarket has on its shelves? Right now the average well-stocked supermarket carries somewhere between 50,000 and 60,000 different items. Do we really need such a choice in light of the fact that several decades ago Americans made do with just 10,000 different items? Would you also want the government agency that delivers our mail to also manage delivery of items to supermarkets?

You say, "Williams, where are you headed with this?" Nobel Laureate Friedrich Hayek, one of the greatest economists of the 20th century, called it a fatal conceit for anyone to think that a single mind or a single committee can somehow do things better than the spontaneous, unstructured, complex and creative forces of the market. The big problem in any system, whether it's an economic, biological or ecological system, is information, communication and control. For congressmen, or a committee they select, to take over control of the nation's traffic signals requires a massive amount of information that they cannot possibly possess such as traffic flows at intersections, accident experiences and changes in peak and low peak traffic patterns.

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

From the article cited:
"Right now Congress tells each American how much should be set aside out of his weekly paycheck for retirement. How can they have the information to know what's the best use for the $70, or so, taken from you and put into Social Security? Might you benefit more by saving that money to start a business, purchase tutoring lessons for your children, or putting it in a private retirement plan? Unlike congressional control of traffic signals and supermarkets, the effects of Social Security aren't apparent because we don't have the information about what people would have been able to accomplish if they were able to keep more of their earnings."

Absolutely!

[gnome]

From the article cited:
"Right now Congress tells each American how much should be set aside out of his weekly paycheck for retirement. How can they have the information to know what's the best use for the $70, or so, taken from you and put into Social Security? Might you benefit more by saving that money to start a business, purchase tutoring lessons for your children, or putting it in a private retirement plan? Unlike congressional control of traffic signals and supermarkets, the effects of Social Security aren't apparent because we don't have the information about what people would have been able to accomplish if they were able to keep more of their earnings."

Absolutely!

Can't we look at how things were before Social Security to get that information?

[HomeschoolrsRUs]

Can't we look at how things were before Social Security to get that information?

No, because different people do different things, especially under different circumstances.

Freedom requires the opportunity to fail as well as succeed, and be in direct control over, in, and of them both.

[Wolfcounsel]

"Can't we look at how things were before Social Security to get that information?" --gnome

You're right, gnome. I guess some people haven't read "The Ant and the Grasshopper".<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[DeclinetoState]

Socialism won't work because it requires all humans to act contrary to their natural instinctive interests. Our natural instinctive interests may be less than ideal, but capitalism provides a mechanism for us to act selfishly yet also (possibly) in the interests of all. Socialism has the "interests of all" part down pat, but fails to address the desire of humans to act first and foremost in their own interests.

[DesertFox]

Not only that, but the "interest of all" has to get more and more intrusive and forceful as people find out that the "interest of all" doesn't cater much to their personal interests. This is ultimately why socialism fails. It doesn't give people what they want, but rather what some bureaucrat says they should want. So people quit making any effort to contribute "in the interest of all" and before long nothing works, things fall apart and nobody gives a shit about anything or anybody but themselves. To get anything at all to work, govt has to use more and more force, crushing individual liberties.

IOW: Socialism brings out the very worst in people -- petty selfishness -- which is also what socialism supposedly wants to ameliorate. It's the Law of Unintended Consequences all over again.

[Wyatt_Junker]

Not only that, but the "interest of all" has to get more and more intrusive and forceful as people find out that the "interest of all" doesn't cater much to their personal interests. This is ultimately why socialism fails. It doesn't give people what they want, but rather what some bureaucrat says they should want. So people quit making any effort to contribute "in the interest of all" and before long nothing works, things fall apart and nobody gives a shit about anything or anybody but themselves. To get anything at all to work, govt has to use more and more force, crushing individual liberties.

IOW: Socialism brings out the very worst in people -- petty selfishness -- which is also what socialism supposedly wants to ameliorate. It's the Law of Unintended Consequences all over again.

Yep.

I'm already there locally. I hear my local sups talk at hearings and I want to reach out and give them the Vader windpipe grip. They are all liberty-robbing egoists with chips on their shoulder. And what's worse is that we are the ones paying their salaries and they have the brass to lecture US!

These people won't go away on the state level or the federal. It will take something momentus to change the direction of this country and I'm not sure what that is, but talk radio is definitely not enough. It barely works now.

There are just too many damn distractions keeping the electorate comfortably dumb. Americans should be LIVID right now about the no-drill Congress. And most don't know what they're even up to. This is the part of America's decline, the part where it says, 'the people stopped caring'.

We took Her for granted.

[DesertFox]

We need strong, solid, conservative leadership. Prollem is, people who believe as we do are not the sort to be interested in governing. We're interested in building our lives and pursuing our interests. The ones who want to run govt are the same types as those who run the NEA -- busybodies hurrying around, bubbling over with self assurance and filled to the brim with their own kindness and the essential rightness, the justice, of what they believe. Change agents busily going around moving social vases from this dresser to that table top, making rules as they go along that quickly lapse into desuetude but keep on as a tyranny to all who have better ideas. Hell hath no fury like a bureaucrat snubbed!

They learn to speak in ringing tones, citing Dr King, the one unimpeachable source whom they themselves have long since held in contempt. Not because he was a plagiarist, but because he preached morality, and morality is the bane of a change agent's existence. You can't order people around when they know themselves. In the change-agentry biz you can only really take charge of someone who's unsure of himself, timid and tentative. Ellsworth Toohey, taking charge of the Peter Keatings of the world.

America's change agents are sucking the vitality of the nation right down their gullets, feeding on our virility and masculinity, keeping their knives sharp for when they get down to the root of life itself, the fount of all life, where it all begins.

Change agents are all named Lorena Bobbitt.

[Wyatt_Junker]

Agreed. Morality represents personal responsiblity which is antithetical to politics. Hence, cons desire less govt. while lefties desire more.

If you can't follow the 10 commandments, you will be cursed with the 10,001.

[Maggie_T]

Can't we look at how things were before Social Security to get that information?

You mean to the times when leftism (ak.a. known as communism and/or it's mini-me, socialism) killed and starved people worldwide by the millions? Oh, brilliant. That should certainly make the case for it. :rolleyes:

And don't try to split hairs, gnome. The topic of this thread is the failure of socialism.

Socialism won't work because it requires all humans to act contrary to their natural instinctive interests. Our natural instinctive interests may be less than ideal, but capitalism provides a mechanism for us to act selfishly yet also (possibly) in the interests of all. Socialism has the "interests of all" part down pat, but fails to address the desire of humans to act first and foremost in their own interests. --DeclinetoState

Not only that, but the "interest of all" has to get more and more intrusive and forceful as people find out that the "interest of all" doesn't cater much to their personal interests. This is ultimately why socialism fails. It doesn't give people what they want, but rather what some bureaucrat says they should want. So people quit making any effort to contribute "in the interest of all" and before long nothing works, things fall apart and nobody gives a shit about anything or anybody but themselves. To get anything at all to work, govt has to use more and more force, crushing individual liberties.

IOW: Socialism brings out the very worst in people -- petty selfishness -- which is also what socialism supposedly wants to ameliorate. It's the Law of Unintended Consequences all over again.--DesertFox

Exactly. It never fails to astonish me how lefties insist on clinging like corals to this failed and genocidal ideology, in spite of decades of historical proof that it is the worst thin Man could ever have come up with.

[DesertFox]

They got it in their thick skulls that everybody who tried it before didn't do it right, but now it's their turn and they will get it right.

Each generation of Reds thinks itself the smartest that ever lived.

[DeclinetoState]

Communists explain themselves:

<h1>1. Introduction</h1>
Working people around the world have always sought a future without war, exploitation, inequality, and poverty. They strive to build a brighter future, one based on democracy, peace, justice, equality, cooperation, and meeting human needs. That future is socialism, a system in which working people control their own lives and destinies, and together build a better world. The Communist Party USA is dedicated to the struggle for socialism in this country. This document is our Party’s program, a statement of our principals and goals and a guide to action along the road to Socialism USA.

Socialism will usher in a new era in this county. The great wealth of the U.S. will for the first time be for the benefit of all the people. Foreign policy will be based on mutual respect, peace, and solidarity. The people’s democratic rights will be guaranteed and expanded. Racial, gender, and social equality will be the basis of domestic policies and practices. Socialism is not a dream, but a necessity to working people’s lives. Only socialism has the solutions to the problems of capitalism in this country.

We, the working people of the United States, face tremendous problems today: exploitation, oppression, racism, sexism, a deteriorating environment and infrastructure, huge budget deficits, and a government dominated by the most vicious elements of big capital and its political operatives. This government, despite its rhetoric about making Americans safe, has wasted hundreds of billions on the invasion and occupation of Iraq while it cut money for maintaining the levees—leading directly to the disaster that Hurricane Katrina wreaked on the people of New Orleans and much of the Gulf Coast. Their callous disregard for African Americans, for poor people, for the elderly, and for all those unable to evacuate on their own exemplifies their inhumane disregard for the lives of all working people.
Copy and paste into your browser to read more: cpusa.org/article/static/758/

We Communists believe that socialism is the very best replacement for a capitalist system that has served its purpose, but no longer meets the needs and requirements of the great majority of our people.

We believe that socialism USA will be built according to the traditions, history, culture and conditions of the United States. Thus, it will be different from any other socialist society in the world. It will be uniquely American.

What will be the goals of our socialist society?


A life free of exploitation, insecurity, poverty; an end to unemployment, hunger and homelessness.
An end to racism, national oppression, anti-Semitism, all forms of discrimination, prejudice and bigotry. An end to the unequal status of women.
Renewal and extension of democracy; an end to the rule of corporate America and private ownership of the wealth of our nation. Creation of a truly humane and rationally planned society that will stimulate the fullest flowering of the human personality, creativity and talent.

Copy and paste into your browser to read more: cpusa.org/article/static/13/

[gnome]

You mean to the times when leftism (ak.a. known as communism and/or it's mini-me, socialism) killed and starved people worldwide by the millions? Oh, brilliant. That should certainly make the case for it. :rolleyes:

And don't try to split hairs, gnome. The topic of this thread is the failure of socialism.

I gotta admit, I was splitting a hair, and not arguing against the entire article.

[Maggie_T]

That's why I like you, gnome. You are no above admitting when I'm right ... I mean, your mistakes. :evilgrin:

[gnome]

That's why I like you, gnome. You are no above admitting when I'm right ... I mean, your mistakes. :evilgrin:

:thumb:

[BarkleUSA]

RE:
We believe that socialism USA will be built according to the traditions, history, culture and conditions of the United States. Thus, it will be different from any other socialist society in the world. It will be uniquely American.

I don't recall who it was but I remember the warning that when communism takes over America don't look for a hammer and sickle flag flying over the US Capital - it will do so wrapped in The Stars and Stripes and whistling the Star Spangled Banner.

The key to socialist empowerment is convincing 51% of the voters that the greater good is served by taking the wealth of the top 49%.

The scheme always collapses because the line of demarcation moves rapidly until there is no distinction between the 51% and 49% and everyone starves to death - except the governing socialists.

[Penguin]

Or as Levin says so sagely..."We all end up in the rice fields".

[Maggie_T]

We believe that socialism USA will be built according to the traditions, history, culture and conditions of the United States. Thus, it will be different from any other socialist society in the world. It will be uniquely American.

Typical excuse. "It will be uniquely British/Frence/German/South American ..."

WRONG! It always ends up being the same misery-for-all, mediocrity-for-all, oppression-for-all tyranny is has always been.

Unfortunately, there will always be the gullible and foolish who fall for the socialist siren song.

[DeclinetoState]

"Siren song" is a good metaphor.

[TheIrishman]

"...while it cut money for maintaining the levees—leading directly to the disaster that Hurricane Katrina wreaked on the people of New Orleans and much of the Gulf Coast."

Well, THAT'S wrong. The levees were passed over long before the Iraq war.

[DeclinetoState]

Nothing like twisting and/or distorting the facts to bolster a communist's, socialist's, or "liberal's" argument.

[DesertFox]

But you repeat yourself.