China's War Plan to Defeat the US

[Warlady]

Saturday, April 7, 2001 1:42 p.m. EST

China's War Plan to Defeat the U.S.

Is Beijing's continuing imprisonment of the crew of a downed U.S. reconnaissance plane an isolated incident resulting from China's need to "save face," as some have begun to suggest as the standoff drags on?

Or is it a bid to test U.S. resolve and America's military weaknesses, China's opening salvo in what some say is a plan to defeat the United States in a full-blown war?

It's been little noted lately in American media accounts. But for years China's warlords have been readying strategies to drive the U.S. out of the western Pacific and establish itself as the dominant power in the region.

Even the Wall Street Journal's conservative editorial page appears disinclined to take the China threat seriously, with an op-ed suggesting Friday that the handful of China watchers who express concern are overreacting.

"These are the neo-Cold Warriors, in the sense that they think China today is like the Soviet Union before the late 1980s," wrote Paul Gigot.

"The Middle Kingdom (they say) is bent on dominating East Asia, if not the world, and needs to be broken with the same strategy that defeated the Soviet Empire. ... They use Bill Gertz at the Washington Times to portray every Chinese military exercise as a prelude to the next Pearl Harbor."

Is Gigot right? Are the Chinese being cast as villians by right-wing security obsessives who need a new Evil Empire to justify their paranoia?

Not according to the Associated Press, which documented the plans of China's warlords four years ago, in a much-overlooked report by the wire service's John Diamond.

"A laborious Pentagon translation of hundreds of books and journal articles by mid-level Chinese military officers shows that Beijing's future military leadership sees U.S. military power as waning and plans to exploit weaknesses in U.S. weaponry and supply lines should conflict occur," reported the AP.

In September 1997, Pentagon China expert Michael Pillsbury testified about China's war plans before the Senate Intelligence Committee. Committee Chairman Richard Shelby said he called the hearing to learn about the state of U.S. intelligence gathering on "the only great power whose defense spending has increased in recent years."

In the Chinese view, "U.S. military forces, while dangerous at present, are vulnerable, even deeply flawed, and can be defeated with the right strategy," Pillsbury testified.

One Chinese book published in 1996 contained articles from 64 People's Liberation Army officers, who detailed the weaknesses in U.S. Army, Navy and Air Force capability.

"This book represents the common theme in PLA views of future warfare," Pillsbury said. "America is proclaimed to be a declining power with but two or three decades of primacy left."

Despite their military inferiority, the generals argue, China could overcome current U.S. advantages by "power-leveraging" their own military technology, such as highly accurate cruise missiles and torpedoes.

"[U.S.] Navy task forces, strung-out supply convoys, logistics bases, military computers and even stealth aircraft could become vulnerable if China exploited the proper technologies," according to China's war planners.

Chinese military experts cited by Pillsbury include Maj. Gen. Sun Balin, a member of Beijing's Academy of Military Science, who contended that America's reliance on computers exposed it to attack by China's "electrical incapacitation systems."

Capt. Shen Zhongchang, writing with colleagues from China's Naval Research Institute, argued that the U.S.'s superior navy could be defeated by China's highly accurate land-based anti-ship missiles.

"Shen's article paid particular attention to attacks aimed at logistics bases and supply lines, noting for example U.S. supply operations during the Persian Gulf War."

Chang Mengxiong, a former senior engineer with China's Beijing Institute of System Engineering, explained that China should pursue a strategy to inflict maximum damage with its inferior force, "like a Chinese boxer with a knowledge of vital body points who can bring an opponent to his knees with a minimum of movement."

China's blueprint to defeat the U.S. militarily may be strictly theoretical - the kind of global contingency planning that generals routinely engage in.

But against the backdrop of some very public saber rattling by China in recent years, such planning looks much more ominous.

China's Defense Minister Chi Haotian, for instance, has been quoted in government-run newspapers saying that "war with the United States is inevitable."

Then there's Lt. Gen. Xiong Guangkai, who in March 1996 warned that the continental U.S. was now vulnerable to a Chinese nuclear ballistic missile attack.

"You are not going to threaten us again," Gen. Xiong told American China expert Charles Freeman, "because, in the end, you care a lot more about Los Angeles than Taipei."

The Clinton administration, its pockets stuffed with campaign contributions from the Chinese military, took a head-in-the-sand approach to Xiong's incendiary words.

"If this was some sort of serious message, we had to make it clear that we were returning it unopened," then-National Security Adviser Anthony Lake told the Washington Post.

American journalists, for the most part, have taken the same attitude.

Not once during the current standoff have mainstream reporters reminded Americans of Gen. Xiong's warning. When the Clinton administration rolled out the red carpet for Xiong's visit to Washington last year, his threat to incinerate Los Angeles was barely noted by journalists.

Likewise, the press has declined to make much of a confrontation just two months later between the U.S. and China over Taiwan, a chilling epsiode prompted by Beijing's decision to launch American-designed M-9 missiles into the Taiwan Straits in an attempt to intimidate the island nation.

A U.S. RC-135 reconnaisasance plane tracked at least one missile that sailed directly over Taiwan's capital, Taipei.

"U.S. analysts saw special significance in China's use of the nuclear-capable M-9 missile," reported the Washington Post two years later. "The M-9 belonged to China's nuclear rocket force - the Second Artillery - and Chinese press accounts called attention to that fact."

Though media accounts at the time noted that two U.S. aircraft carrier battle groups had been dispatched to the region, most Americans still have no idea how close America came to a second Cuban Missile Crisis.

"It was very tense," a senior defense official told the Post two years later. "We were up all night for weeks. We prepared the war plans, the options. It was horrible."

"At Camp H.M. Smith in Honolulu, Adm. Joseph W. Prueher [now U.S. Ambassador to China] ordered his U.S. Pacific Command to form a 'crisis action team' to coordinate intelligence and air-and-sea operations around the clock."

"Chinese public rhetoric became as warlike as any heard in decades, including vows to 'bury' the Americans if it came to a fight."

Suddenly Gen. Xiong's threat to nuke Los Angeles seemed very real indeed.
http://www.newsmax.com

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>It's been little noted lately in American media accounts. But for years China's warlords have been readying strategies to drive the U.S. out of the western Pacific and establish itself as the dominant power in the region.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Japan did this, and brought the US into World War 2. China has more military power now, than Japan did pre-WW2, and China is building additional offensive power, rapidly.

War in the future between China and the USA? I don't know. Certainly there will be nuclear guts poker.

[ 04-07-2001 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Gunny Highway ]

[Warlady]

I agree Gunny. All one has to do is pay attention to their arms buildup. Welcome to the forum!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Problem being Russia knew we were perfectly willing to use the things. China seems to be living in a bliss ninny land -- too obsessed with their own 'paper tiger' theories.

[Warlady]

Probably why they are testing GW.

[Maggie_T]

I don't know what China has up the sleeve, but whatever it is, I'm sure the Dan Rathers and Carvilles will be quick to water it down.

All I can say is, watch the Chi-Coms. And never, NEVER underestimate them.

[2nd_Amendment]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AnotherPundit:
Problem being Russia knew we were perfectly willing to use the things. China seems to be living in a bliss ninny land -- too obsessed with their own 'paper tiger' theories.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree fundamentally here. Russia knew we would NEVER use them. And we knew they never would either. For all the bluster and bullshit Russian leaders were very Western in thought and belief. They liked(and still do) their lives and power and property. Just like us. It was all just sabre rattling. Jockeying for position.

China, OTH, IS perfectly willing to use nukes and simply couldn't care less whether we do or not. They believe they can survive the infamous "limited nuclear exchange" because of land mass and sheer population. And if they can't survive it? Death in combat with an enemy is honorable...even if it a death of their culture and race.

Russia never scared me. They were just a bunch of comfortable old men playing a slightly higher profile bit of corporate drama. China would just as soon smoke the world if they thought it would give them a perceived benefit.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

that raises an interesting question, really .. if it did come to war between china and us, where would russia fall?

So much of the world is reliant on us, economically, to one extent or another. .

[2nd_Amendment]

Several of us were doing something classically American yesterday: Sitting in a small town diner arguing politics, specifically where the sides would line up in the event of war with China. You can imagine the volume with input from across two rows of booths. images/icons/smile.gif

Anyway, I stand by what I said then: Russia and japan gain nothing but a reprieve if they side with China. The US is no threat to them and they know it, even after a massive conventional or nuclear exchange. Being allies with us, worst case, get's their asses kicked immediately. Best case it allows them to rid themselves of an oppresive giant.

Siding with China? Win or lose they still lose. If the US were to be utterly defeated they still have to contend with a mobilized China which has by then already demonstrated a willingness to go nuke. I am quite certain China will not make the mistakes we made at the end of WWII but rather would mop up both "allies" as a matter of course.

And if the US "wins"? In such a violent exchange I somehow feel confident in thinking that a rather large number of our ICBMs would find their way into Russia and all over Japan. And obviously we wouldn't be there to prop them up and put them back together again.

So, I see very few benefits in siding with China. I see certain benefits in siding with us. However, I also see great benefits in their staying out of it and waiting to see who's left standing. I don't know if the latter is any realistic option for them though.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

"If the US were to be utterly defeated..." --2nd Amendment

Only happen in a Chinese c*ck s*ck*r's wet dream.

[PaulRevere]

No war is necessary. Just a total trade embargo would ruin them for years and they know it. Even a short embargo or the threat of one would steer foreign investment to other countries. I mean, several countries can make shoes, toys, and everything else that comes out of China. The thought of throwing all those people out of work would make any Chicom shudder. Anti-US propaganda would work until they all ran out of money - then they wouldn't care about anything but getting another job.

[2nd_Amendment]

Wolf: Of course it can happen. Here's an even more startling thought: It WILL happen. Might not be the Chinese, might not be for a thousand years, but the US is no more eternal than any other empire. Frankly I think it is already showing signs of being far more ephemeral than many.

Paul: Trade embargo is a nice thought. Won't work anymore but it's a nice thought. China has plenty of other export markets and most of them wouldn't pay any attention to a US embargo. And anyway, if China is actually spoiling for a fight for some perverse reason then an embargo would simply add fuel to the fire of their resolve.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Of course nothing lasts forever, 2nd. Not all future American generations will be born with backbones. The thing is, in a million years or so, they won't be American anyway. They'll be whining little momma's boys and daddy's little princesses wondering where their next diaper change is coming from. I just mean the Chinese assholes will NOT kick our ass.

[2nd_Amendment]

One nuke, Wolf. Just one and our ass is kicked.

Just one, and so is theirs.

The moment one bird takes wing hundreds of thousands die, the internet grinds to a halt and economies around the world tank.

People look at nuclear war as a function of the physical explosions, but the reality is even more devastating. It's the elimination of culture, society, infrastructure, food, amenities...the list encompasses everything mankind has created.

I'm not being a smart ass here, nor trying to kick you around. I'm just getting a grip on what is looming and I want everyone else to get it too. A nuclear war only needs one shot to send the entire planet into chaos.

So yeah, they can kick our ass...and we'll kick theirs...and it won't really matter afterwards. But, sadly, it'll matter a lot more in OUR daily lives than theirs.

We have a helluva lot more to lose.

[Lyta_Alexander]

Actually you could blame Bubba Clinton and him selling our secrets to Chinese for niceeeee campaign donation

I read both Bill Gertz books very interesting books andddd China issss this close of signing deal with Illya and his KGB buddies in Russia

Wo Fat meet Illya

Illya meet Wo Fat

That scary thought

[**DONOTDELETE**]

"One nuke, Wolf. Just one and our ass is kicked.
Just one, and so is theirs." --2nd Amendment

Reminds me of the two guys standing in a wading pool full of gasoline. One has one match and the other has 100 matches. It doesn't matter who strikes the first match.

I still believe the Chinese are basically human, and the leaders are 99.999 percent cowards. Maybe tactical nukes will be used, because the Chinese know about the gas pool also.

[2nd_Amendment]

I'd never hint they were less than human. And I have no doubt their "leaders", politicians every one, are cowards. But they still have a different perspective. They are the definition of Eastern thought.

And an ingrained life-is-cheap attitude doesn't mate well with nuclear capability.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

tactical nukes?

you are a piece of work.

do you even know what you are talking about?

one nuke, tactical or statigic, lights the fire and you are standing in the pool of gas, not they.

not that it will necessarily come to that. before the first nuke is thrown, or mayby after four or five, both will come to their senses.

can you imagine america after that sense?

it will not in any way resemble america as it is today.

do you think you will have more rights or less rights when the dust settles?

:sound of crickets:

[**DONOTDELETE**]

"And an ingrained life-is-cheap attitude doesn't mate well with nuclear capability." --2nd Amendment

The life-is-cheap attitude refers to a coward's outlook on other people's lives. These Chinese politicians know they are prime targets above everyone else. They will be the first to go.

[2nd_Amendment]

There'll be no question of Rights. It will be the perfect chance for the power hungry to seize the reigns, assuming anything remains, and for those of us who simply can't live like that...well...I guess we live like guerrillas or die.

One more reason I fear it even as I begin to prepare for it. For some of us it's a no win scenerio no matter what happens. And for the Constitution and Bill of Rights it's a guaranteed loser.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

What many people do not realize until they see it in print is, one piece of TRASH nuclear weapon will destroy an aircraft carrier and anything else for a couple of miles in the water.

If we have two carriers and several destroyers, etc., in the Pacific, this could happen simultaneously and the only thing the crews could do is pray and wait for the bright light and walk into it.

If you are fortunate enough to hear that has happened, leave your job immediately if you are in California, Oregon or Washington, 'cause, you might be next.

Idaho and Nevada look real good then...

They have the capability, right now, to destroy what they want in the Pacific Ocean.

They're waiting...

They're staging...

Is it going to happen tomorrow?

How will you live if they hit this country? They could take out the least populated area of the West Coast, and as 2ndAmendment stated, everything changes.

Their people live in shit and squalor.

All they would have to do is neuter us in the Pacific and hit the least populated area on the West Coast...then what?

They could have already brought Special Forces up through Mexico, they could be in place right now.

This is not paranoia people, this is how it is done. We got people behind the Iron Curtain, this country is not 1/100 as secure.

People do not realize what could happen. You have 48 States they could target right here.

You take three, 3-man Cells in NYC, and they have automatic weapons, all the magazines they can carry, and a few pounds of explosives each...and you have no more NYC. Period.

Nine man and women could shut down NYC in the span of 3 hours.

People do not understand terrorism.

Subway has 5 pounds of HE in it, it is detonated, nevermind the damage, people do not ride the subway.

School bus is shot up by 3 women with automatic weapons, schools stop.

People stay home. Fear, that's terrorism.

That is nothing compared to what can happen. That is not even the tip of the iceberg.

Thirty 3-man cells...all have a mission. They don't care, they are indoctrinated. They don't care, when they are told, the mission gets carried out.

Powerplants...hydroelectric power plants/dams. Everything...

America is soft and weak now. Collectively, we are a bunch of little girls on a playground. We cry over skinned knees in this country, this country does not know terror.

We're too busy fighting each other over Gun Control or this, or that, or the other, you don't think Chinese Intelligence read our newspapers, view our media? They do...they know America is at a crossroads and they know we are weak.

This scenario that I wrote, imagine all of that happening in one 12 hour period.

You know what would probably happen? Martial Law would be declared and then you would have a Civil War. Simple as that. They won.

Instead of embracing being American and everything that entails...which means you and I guard the infrastructure because the Military stages to go overseas. But we can't do that because "The Classic American" is a "Barbarian" now.

You can see this no more clearly than in the liberals complete insanity over arguing that Americans should not be able to own assault weapons, including Chinese made ones, and then selling China Missile Guidance Systems that have the capability to kill millions of Americans.

I said it in the other thread a different way, it is still the truth as I see it.

All you have to do is read about terrorism and look at how unsecure this country is, and use simple addition. You don't need me to tell you. It is crystal clear that we need Counterintelligence to quit focusing on Americans who bitch about the Government, instead, they need to take a hard look at other things in the infrastructure.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Stranglehold, that is a very sobering reminder of what can happen here with blinding speed.

The sad thing is, there are many people who read your words and the only thing they wonder about is which of them is going to be first in line to lick the asses of their conquerors. And shine their shoes, the whole time whining, "Don't hurt me!"

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I don't think they are thinking at all. I think the general attitude is, "it will never happen here, it could never happen here, and all of you people are paranoid..."

They see America's Mighty Capability and they do not put it in a proper context. That mighty capability could be neutered and the Chinese could do it right now.

If they wanted to. It is obvious from their own admissions that they want to, the question is, when? I don't know...

[2nd_Amendment]

Went to the office around midnite last nite. Saw some younger people I know camped in a parking lot across the street shooting the bull and I went over to see what was up.

Geee, what was the topic? China, economic consequences, and Revelation! Anyway, I'll spare y'all the majority of it and fix on one thing that came up.

EMP. Electro magnetic Pulse. OK, I think we all know what it does to electronics...don't we? So go look at your car.

And everyone elses car all down your block. And all the multi-million dollars worth of inventory sitting on all the dealers lots. Then consider just how much this nation depends on the automobile and just how much of our national income is wrapped up in them at all levels.

Now, consider how completely electronics are integrated into them. And finally, imagine each of them being little more than 4000 pounds of scrap steel.

We have electronicized ourselves into a box of our own making. And this one aspect of war is enough to render this nation a backwater and our ecomy a complete and utter shambles. One nuke...

I'm liking this less and less...

[RogerFGay]

China is another Yugoslavia with greater military strength. They are not able to develop normally to become part of the modern world, but they have greater military strength. That is a dangerous mix. While they remained in isolation, with no way window to other cultures for their citizens to look through, violently supressing internal calls for reform, they were less dangerous to the rest of the world. Now people who are not used to interacting with the rest of the world, are interacting, but they "lose face" when they aren't treated as dictators by leaders of other nations, as they would expect to be at home. Their internal propaganda is not simplistically validated, and the leaders in China don't know how to handle that.

[EagleTed]

2nd:

George Washington wasn't held hostage by any fear of our enemy destroying our largest cities, neither should we today.

[I've edited my post, because I believe you deserve more]

I don't fear the elite taking over America with a resulting loss in our basic rights for the following reasons:

With the loss of our large cities, the elite are gone.

America is largely ungovernable, especially as long as we keep our personal weapons.

America is more than money, Wall Street, and capitalism, they are results of our character, not our foundations.

America is a lot tougher than we like to give ourselves credit.

Make us mad, and our patriots will not stop fighting until all of them are dead. At which point, it all doesn't matter.

[ 04-08-2001: Message edited by: EagleTed ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Actually, the winners would be whomever manages to assume or retain power afterwards, in china. For totalitarian dictatorships, chaos can be good - an opportunity to consolidate power.

[2nd_Amendment]

I had to put the brakes on my reply, Eagle, because your edit showed up in the middle of it! images/icons/smile.gif

So, what reply...hmmm. You're right, of course. But the other side is the fact there's a large chunk of even our rural population which is soft.

My wife is manager for a grocery store chain. She has said how utterly amazed she is by the number of people who buy groceries by the meal. Yes, the meal. i have trouble even conceiving of such a thing but she says probably sixty percent of the business is comprised of that type of shopper.

Can we say unprepared? Maybe Screwed would be better. Anyway, obviously you do see the consequences. Maybe I'm just preaching because I see those of us who DO recognize what could be as also being the ones everyone will come begging to. I really don't want to deal with all these sheeple because they were too stupid to plan ahead and expect me, and you, to take care of them.

[2nd_Amendment]

.

[ 04-08-2001: Message edited by: 2nd Amendment ]

[Warlady]

BIRD calling anyone PERKEL/NQ¿Qkie especially a moderator on this board is not only baseless and without fact or merit it is an insult to the intelligence of the Administration. Please don't do that again.

[Maggie_T]

Speaking for myself, you don't need to apologize, 2nd, much less hide because you spoke your mind. This is not UC. Go for it.

[DesertFox]

A nuclear exchange would be bad. But it would be survivable.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

http://www.bartcop.net/0b64adb0.jpg


THE WORKING END OF MY APOLOGY!!!!

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -- miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic, and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke


images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2nd Amendment:
Went to the office around midnite last nite. Saw some younger people I know camped in a parking lot across the street shooting the bull and I went over to see what was up.

Geee, what was the topic? China, economic consequences, and Revelation! Anyway, I'll spare y'all the majority of it and fix on one thing that came up.

EMP. Electro magnetic Pulse. OK, I think we all know what it does to electronics...don't we? So go look at your car.

And everyone elses car all down your block. And all the multi-million dollars worth of inventory sitting on all the dealers lots. Then consider just how much this nation depends on the automobile and just how much of our national income is wrapped up in them at all levels.

Now, consider how completely electronics are integrated into them. And finally, imagine each of them being little more than 4000 pounds of scrap steel.

We have electronicized ourselves into a box of our own making. And this one aspect of war is enough to render this nation a backwater and our ecomy a complete and utter shambles. One nuke...

I'm liking this less and less...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


PERKEL, Your such a stupid wuss!!!!

Grab your nuts and show some pride in your country! I for one have thrown caution to the wind and said, "Over my dead body will a bunch of Chinese push me around."

Your an overwieght pussy who is to worried about what might be and has forgotten the brave actions our ancestors did to make this country the best place to live in the entire world. Not to mention the envy of the world.

When your on top the rest want to see you fall. I be damned if that happens in my lifetime. Those soldiers over there would rather spend the rest of their lives in prison then have a proud military bow its head in shame to the communist pigs.

As for these kids you talked to as they discussed the world situation.....what were they 18, 19, ...older, younger? Sad. When I was that age I was running patrols on the Yugoslav Border with Macedonia. Pussy kids need to get off their ass and stop complaining and make a contribution to this country and stop expecting their fellow countrymen to provide for them.

This country was built with hard work, dedication to freedom and a little dash of war....why it that so wrong?


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -- miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic, and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke


images/icons/grin.gif

[EagleTed]

It lot of horse manure has been opined, but this is the worst of the lot:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>tactical nukes?
you are a piece of work.

do you even know what you are talking about?

one nuke, tactical or statigic, lights the fire and you are standing in the pool of gas, not they.

not that it will necessarily come to that. before the first nuke is thrown, or mayby after four or five, both will come to their senses.

can you imagine america after that sense?

it will not in any way resemble america as it is today.

do you think you will have more rights or less rights when the dust settles?

:sound of crickets: <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

People are so afraid of nuclear weapons, they don't seem to have rational thoughts on the matter.

Do you know that Nagasaki and Heroshimo have human residents? But, that's impossible.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

nukes then and nukes now are way different things, eagle.

[EagleTed]

How many nukes do the ChiComs have?

How many do we have?

And why, pray tell, would Russia wish to get in a war, especially a nuclear war, between the US and China?

Granted, instead of a one mile total kill radius, we are dealing with 30 miles, but none the less, it would take thousands to destroy America.

Besides, America's cities have consistantly voted against our military, and against SDI, why should I give damn about them, when they don't give a damn about themselves? [tongue only slightly in cheek]

[ 04-08-2001: Message edited by: EagleTed ]

[2nd_Amendment]

"Bird" comments removed due to breaking developments. images/icons/smile.gif

Eagle: Thosands to destroy America? Please. Like I posted elsewhere, some fixate on the explosions. That's the small part. Even the fallout isn't the big guns. it's the electronic, social, and economic consequences that will make this an unpleasant place at best. Those things and the guaranteed power grabbing that will ensue from the "Elite" rulers.

There are no winners in a madern nuclear exchange. I'd hoped nobody remained who thought there were. Don't interpret this as support for an apology. It's not. We owe them nothing but a swift kick. But only a fool fails to consider all the consequences.

[DesertFox]

Stranglehold's comments (above) are looking insightful.

Any news of that guy?

As I understand it, EMP immobilizes electronic equipment at the time of the pulse. If your car's not in use at the time, it isn't affected.

I see all this in a very different way from the pessimistic assessments posted so far. Seems to me a really bad war with China would see America rise stronger than ever. We've seen how sensible people have stood up in the aftermath of 9-11. That would happen on a much broader scale in the event of war with China.

I can't see us ever invading China, and the Chinese haven't the means to sustain an invasion of North America across the Pacific Ocean. Nuclear exchange would be the sum of the war between us.

We have FAR greater capacity to fix and keep going than they have. Knock out a power station and it's gone for the duration; knock out one of the thousands we have and it's fixed in short order.

They don't have limitless nukes, or limitless delivery vehicles for them, and once the throwing started the Russians would have to choose sides before the ever-suspicious Chinese began throwing at them. The Russkis are closer to China than we and never have liked them, and I'd bet they'd be in the war for their own reasons (survival) in short order.

Though hoping such a war never eventuates, I actually think we would emerge from it far better than we are now. I've noted before that war clears away cant. All the cant of our age -- political correctness, feminism, crybaby rights movements, peaceniks, tree huggers -- would swiftly pass in violence on the streets between Americans.

America would survive the war and get its mind right again.

[Marla]

Very well put 2nd Ammendment! But if we have any more Presidents like Clinton they wont need Nukes.

[ThomasMore]

V.I. Clinton. The first ChiCom President.