Maggie_T
09-07-2003, 04:06 PM
This was posted by FluffyDoomBunny in reply to HardenedCon's post.
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HardenedCon said:
Increased safety on pipelines (and tankers), fuel-efficient vehicles, and alternative energy powered vehicles all could help in this case.
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FluffyDoomBunny answered:
HC, as for increased safety on pipelines that would be nice. However I deal with some refineries and know a little about the situation. The cost of every last regulation that gets passed will eventually hitting you in the pocket book.
Increased regulation = increased cost to supplier = increased cost to manufacturer = increased cost to consumer. One of my refinery customers just finished buying a 160 million dollar system for monitoring and tracking their process. And they are going to be installing 5 more in the next 2 years. Why? Because federal law told them they had to. They certainly aren't going to eat that cost.
Increased pipeline safety also involves digging up 1000's of miles of underground pipes and retrofitting them with today's technology. I don't even want to begin to tell you the cost of such an endeavor as I have had to price excavations in the past I could give you a rough estimate. Try close to $500,000 to $6 million dollars per mile depending on where the pipes are.
When you start talking about fuel-efficient vehicles and alternative energy powered ones as well that is really starting to get into the realm of free-markets where the government doesn't have any real right meddling. I am hard pressed to find that in the U.S. Constitution. Hint, hint my second degree is a Masters in Environmental Engineering. I just wanted to warn you before going down the path of arguing environmental plusses/minuses and protection and increased regulation with me on this,
The point is that I work with the refineries. I know the silly and ass-backwards regualtions they already have to meet to operate on a daily basis that have absolutely no or little effect on their production or the environment around them. I have written 5 Title V Federal Operating Permits for refineries and 2 for powerplants in the last 4 years and been infront of the EPA Mgrs for both SW and SE PA and watched them attempt to make up regulations on the spot not found anywhere in the CFR. They have that authority did you know that? I bet you didn't know that the EPA offices can add additional regulations not even codifed as they see fit and can justify. Boy good thing to know that non-elected officials can make law eh?
I'll tell you why there is a supply shortage at times like this. 1st as Ray said it has to do with a bazillion differnet blends of gasoline. We only need one and that would be the California blend. Allowing my refineries to produce just this one blend instead of the 7 or more they already do would decrease the overall cost even though the California blend is the most expensive to begin with. It takes a refinery about 7 to 14 days to swtich over from grade to grade which is one to two weeks of no production from that unit in the plant.
But secondly and most importantly it has do do with the refineries not being allowed to operate at their full potential UNTIL an energency like this occures. Do you know that all my refinery customers are FEDERALLY permitted so that they can only operate at 50, 45, 30, 67 and 60% of capacity repectively?
The federal government has imposed a supply cap on gasoline and other petroleum products in this country. They are the one's that are limiting supply and stack that on top of all the other costs they mandate this only cripples the refineries MORE.
The overflow tanks (ie storage of extra product) are empty at my refineries because of this. Now just think about how if those plants could have been allowed to operate at full capacity and keep those tanks full. They could have trucked California emissions grade gas out there and solved the problem in 3 days.
But no. The government had to stick it's nose whre it doesn't belong.
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HardenedCon said:
Increased safety on pipelines (and tankers), fuel-efficient vehicles, and alternative energy powered vehicles all could help in this case.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FluffyDoomBunny answered:
HC, as for increased safety on pipelines that would be nice. However I deal with some refineries and know a little about the situation. The cost of every last regulation that gets passed will eventually hitting you in the pocket book.
Increased regulation = increased cost to supplier = increased cost to manufacturer = increased cost to consumer. One of my refinery customers just finished buying a 160 million dollar system for monitoring and tracking their process. And they are going to be installing 5 more in the next 2 years. Why? Because federal law told them they had to. They certainly aren't going to eat that cost.
Increased pipeline safety also involves digging up 1000's of miles of underground pipes and retrofitting them with today's technology. I don't even want to begin to tell you the cost of such an endeavor as I have had to price excavations in the past I could give you a rough estimate. Try close to $500,000 to $6 million dollars per mile depending on where the pipes are.
When you start talking about fuel-efficient vehicles and alternative energy powered ones as well that is really starting to get into the realm of free-markets where the government doesn't have any real right meddling. I am hard pressed to find that in the U.S. Constitution. Hint, hint my second degree is a Masters in Environmental Engineering. I just wanted to warn you before going down the path of arguing environmental plusses/minuses and protection and increased regulation with me on this,
The point is that I work with the refineries. I know the silly and ass-backwards regualtions they already have to meet to operate on a daily basis that have absolutely no or little effect on their production or the environment around them. I have written 5 Title V Federal Operating Permits for refineries and 2 for powerplants in the last 4 years and been infront of the EPA Mgrs for both SW and SE PA and watched them attempt to make up regulations on the spot not found anywhere in the CFR. They have that authority did you know that? I bet you didn't know that the EPA offices can add additional regulations not even codifed as they see fit and can justify. Boy good thing to know that non-elected officials can make law eh?
I'll tell you why there is a supply shortage at times like this. 1st as Ray said it has to do with a bazillion differnet blends of gasoline. We only need one and that would be the California blend. Allowing my refineries to produce just this one blend instead of the 7 or more they already do would decrease the overall cost even though the California blend is the most expensive to begin with. It takes a refinery about 7 to 14 days to swtich over from grade to grade which is one to two weeks of no production from that unit in the plant.
But secondly and most importantly it has do do with the refineries not being allowed to operate at their full potential UNTIL an energency like this occures. Do you know that all my refinery customers are FEDERALLY permitted so that they can only operate at 50, 45, 30, 67 and 60% of capacity repectively?
The federal government has imposed a supply cap on gasoline and other petroleum products in this country. They are the one's that are limiting supply and stack that on top of all the other costs they mandate this only cripples the refineries MORE.
The overflow tanks (ie storage of extra product) are empty at my refineries because of this. Now just think about how if those plants could have been allowed to operate at full capacity and keep those tanks full. They could have trucked California emissions grade gas out there and solved the problem in 3 days.
But no. The government had to stick it's nose whre it doesn't belong.
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