Baggage

[brilliantLiberal]

We certainly all have baggage. The accumulation of past lovers and broken dreams, illegitimate children and shared visitation is the reward for becoming a society with no morality. In earlier times, people married young and stayed together (for the most part) for life. While adultery has always existed, it was frowned upon and considered a social stigma (or, if you will, a scarlet letter). When TV was in its infancy its programming reflected the family values of the era. Contrast Mayberry RFD with Nip Tuck and you will see how far our society has gone to relax the rules of decency.

Today, the fastest way to pick up a woman in a bar is to wear a wedding ring. I guess the fact that a man displays his wedding ring makes women think he is a good husband, and it's easier to take a good husband from another woman than to dig up your own. They don't connect the dots and understand that if he would cheat on his wife, he would cheat on them.

We have become a nation of quitters. We quit trying to win the Vietnam War at a time the enemy was nearly ready to give up (from Ho Chi Minh, himself). We allow our youth to quit school without consequence. We already hear the voices calling for us to quit in Iraq when the Iraqi people are counting on us to protect them against the foreign terrorists who are trying to destroy their country. Many want us to quit the war on terrorism, even though when we stop hunting the terrorists they will be free to resume hunting us. And, of course, we quit on our relationships as soon as hard times come.

True love lasts forever. However, it does not do so without effort. It requires a daily commitment to each other. In every relationship, there will be times when you seem to fall out of love. However, if you maintain your commitment and stay together, the love returns stronger than ever.

The fact remains that it takes two people to keep a marriage together, but either party can destroy one. Choose well when you make your choice of a marital partner. When you have chosen, stay with your choice. Your children will be better for it. Your family will be better for it. Your life will be better for it. Don't be so foolish as to believe that a person who has cheated on three spouses will not cheat on you. Don't be afraid of another's baggage, but examine it carefully. It can be very revealing.

[Peachdiane]

[ QUOTE ]
brilliantLiberal said:
Today, the fastest way to pick up a woman in a bar is to wear a wedding ring. I guess the fact that a man displays his wedding ring makes women think he is a good husband, and it's easier to take a good husband from another woman than to dig up your own. They don't connect the dots and understand that if he would cheat on his wife, he would cheat on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well then these women are dumber than stumps because men don't leave their wives for other women. And, abusers wear rings, adulterers wear rings, alcoholics wear rings, fat, uncaring slobs wear rings, etc.... doesn't make them a good husband. For example there's a man who sits with me at PTA meetings and runs into me every morning and afternoon. Tells me nothing I haven't heard or said before, "My spouse doesn't understand me" "We grew apart" "The love just disappeared" "We can't communicate anymore." I sympathize with him and totally understand where he's coming from but what bothers me is he lies to himself. He goes for "massages" and even uses adult finder sites to find local women interested in sex. And THEN he is the LOUDEST advocate for pro-family and pro-marriage. I worked with him on Saxby's campaign where he talked about not liking cheaters. His wife has no idea about his thirst for other women/sex yet the other ladies think he's wonderful and perfect because he works hard and provides for his family and gets involved with his kids (their mom doesn't).

Boggles my mind, but I remind myself that I understand him because I lied to myself for years too. It was important to have the image of the perfect family, house, car, etc. For years no one knew of the turmoil that swirled within. I walked out everyday with a smile on my face and people said "You lucky girl! I wish I was as happy as you!"

[ QUOTE ]
However, if you maintain your commitment and stay together, the love returns stronger than ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to disagree there. Love isn't like some light switch you flick off and on at will. If a wife is being yelled at daily and abused, and hurt for years yet she is committed, those warm loving feelings will return because she hung in there? Or a husband whose wife uses the kids to hurt him, his dreams and thoughts put down by little needling comments? Soon he feels nothing but resentment and hatred from being ignored unless it affected his wife directly. But he hangs in there for whatever reasons and the love miraculously returns? I doubt it. Maybe feelings of caring, friendship but not true love.

[ QUOTE ]
Choose well when you make your choice of a marital partner.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you there. When the rate is 50% why are half of us choosing poorly? I believe it's because we're relieved we finally found "the one." But then we deceive ourselves. We're not honest with ourselves about the things that bother us about our partner. We hope that these things simply will go away. We may tell ourselves that the things that bother us about our partner are not very important or that we are being too picky.

Hah! I know I did. I did a fabulous job lying to myself.

By lying to ourselves and not recognizing these challenges and addressing them early on in the relationship, it's a pretty darn good indication that the relationship will not succeed.

Which beings me back to your first comment, who wants to find someone in a bar anyway? http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon120.gif Whatever happened to enjoying life and meetng others through hobbies or "connections" like car shows, sporting events, political meetups, exercise gym? You name it. (Though I guess if drinking and partying is one's only hobby, however pathetic, then in a bar they'll be). http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smack.gif

Yes, we all bring baggage. It's not the baggage but how we deal with it. I have a story to share:

[ QUOTE ]
Right before they graduated from college two young men were out in the woods on a camping and fishing trip when they happened upon this particular brook where the trout all but jumped out of the water onto their hooks. They had such a great time that they agreed to meet again in that same spot twenty years later and enjoy some more fishing. Twenty years later they reunited and backpacked into the woods until they found a spot that looked very similar to the one where they had fished at the brook twenty years before. One of them said, "This is the place!" The other said, "No, I don't think so." The first man then said, "Yes, this absolutely is the brook where we fished. I recognize it by the clover growing on the other side." To which the second replied, "Silly, you can't tell a brook by its clover."

[/ QUOTE ]

No one ever looks better than they do the day they stand at the altar to exchange the vows of marriage. Yet, twenty years later, looking back on the pictures of that day, most have learned that you can't tell a groom by his tux or a bride by her veil. Beneath all that beauty and handsomeness is what Peter (in the Bible) refers to as "the hidden person of the heart." It is that hidden person that has become, for better or worse, as the vows say, the more visible.

[Nutrider99]

[ QUOTE ]
Peachdiane said:

I have to disagree there. Love isn't like some light switch you flick off and on at will. If a wife is being yelled at daily and abused, and hurt for years yet she is committed, those warm loving feelings will return because she hung in there? Or a husband whose wife uses the kids to hurt him, his dreams and thoughts put down by little needling comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that Dr. Laurs'a 3 A's are appropriate. It is permissible to leave one's spouse because of adultery, addiction, or abuse. Men who abuse their wives should have their teeny weenies cut off.

[ QUOTE ]
Which beings me back to your first comment, who wants to find someone in a bar anyway? http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon120.gif Whatever happened to enjoying life and meetng others through hobbies or "connections" like car shows, sporting events, political meetups, exercise gym? You name it. (Though I guess if drinking and partying is one's only hobby, however pathetic, then in a bar they'll be). http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smack.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

One place to meet people is on line. It's easier to juggle 4 IM's at once than to try to date 4 women in a night without the others knowing. Yes, you have to be careful, but good people are everywhere. The finest women are grown in the south. There is nothing so sweet as a southern belle. Sorry for the rest of you, I have the finest. However, there are plenty of fine young women out there.

[Charles]

NutRider said,
[ QUOTE ]
The finest women are grown in the south. There is nothing so sweet as a southern belle.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen brother!!! I've been married to MY belle for 13 years this sunday!

I think she's most beautiful when we're working in the garden. "Sothern girls don't sweat, they GLISTEN." http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Maggie_T]

[ QUOTE ]
Today, the fastest way to pick up a woman in a bar is to wear a wedding ring. I guess the fact that a man displays his wedding ring makes women think he is a good husband, and it's easier to take a good husband from another woman than to dig up your own. They don't connect the dots and understand that if he would cheat on his wife, he would cheat on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not exactly. I hate to break this to you all, but some women actually prefer to have affairs with married men.

Their excuse: Married men don't blabber (for obvious reasons).

So I was told by one of those women. http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif


<font size=1>No, she was not a friend. Just someone I met casually.</font size=1>

[Rink]

One problem bout finding people online, you may know them for years, you may THINK you know them fully and well.

BUT you will NOT know their true selves untill You meet them and get to know them in REAL LIFE!!!

This is a NUMBER one rule of thumb for me, I have two I'm very interested, one lives in Florida and the other in tennessee, but..... I Will NEVER ever base a Life decision knowing these men online Only, that is the path towards disaster, if they are important enough to you and want to be with you, they will go the extra mile for you and do their best to come see you and make sure you Do get to know them in real life, in everyday things and everyday life, if they are not willing and continue to pressure you to come to them, it isnt worth it.

Sorry but this is my rule #1. men gotta come to me first and go the added extra step Just once, for me, if they can and are willing to do that then I will trust in God to guide me the rest of the way in makin my lifetime decision.

Sometimes you have to step back, and take a look at the whole picture, and, most important of all, have a LOT of patience in the relationship.

Not easy, not for me, but God knows if I make a lifetime committment to one man, then I damn well better be able to live with it for the rest of my life, as that is the way its gonna be.

Nuff said http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[bannerman]

The similarly not too damned bright Wesley Clark Presidential Candidate andonetime head of NATO forces,..UNDE BILL CLIONTOONm,,,,,,, that Lobbed thar MISSILE at the ----RED CHINESE EMBASSY--- in SARAJEVO-- sure a HELL has some baggage doesnt he!!!

[Peachdiane]

[ QUOTE ]
Rink said:
Sorry but this is my rule #1. men gotta come to me first and go the added extra step Just once, for me, if they can and are willing to do that then I will trust in God to guide me the rest of the way in makin my lifetime decision.

Sometimes you have to step back, and take a look at the whole picture, and, most important of all, have a LOT of patience in the relationship.

[/ QUOTE ]

A self aware woman! I like that! And you're worth it. So, which one will come singing, "Aint no mountain high enough.....aint no valley low enough.....?"

My money's on the TN one! http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon16.gif

[ QUOTE ]
The finest women are grown in the south. There is nothing so sweet as a southern belle.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aw dang! dPrasse says I'm loud, obnoxious, and rude. http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nono.gif I guess I'm in the wrong place. Maybe I'll move back west and land in.... San Antonio!

TX women know their http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon62.gif, don't take any http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crapper.gif from anyone, and get things done! Am I right WL? http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon129.gif

But I'm happy for you and Charles! http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon16.gif

[Warlady]

bL I enjoyed every word of your post. I've been married to Warlord for 18 years. Will be 19 years October 29th. I love him more today than I did on our wedding day. We rarely fight or disagree. I think the first few years were the most difficult. The getting to know each other part. What I think is the most important lesson in a relationship is to not try to mold your partner into what you think is the person you want them to be to fit your needs. It needs to be the other way around. You mold yourself into what your partner needs and they will do the same. It's called being unselfish. Total loyalty and support is also important. Compromise when possible and patience patience patience. Someone told me once that the best way to get through the day without an argument is to NOT say at least 12 things you would like to say. I'm referring to gripes of course. We've had a lot of struggles over the years but I think they have made our relationship stronger. I'm so glad we never threw in the towel. That's what bL is talking about. Don't quit unless there is the three A's. Sometimes even they can be fixed. If two people love each other enough abuse addiction etc can be repaired. It involves a lot of work for the offender and a lot of forgiveness from the offended. But if you stay with it the pain does eventually go away and you find your way back to each other. I think people need to be mature when they marry. Kids should not get married in my opinion. They don't have that sticktoitiveness required for a long term relationship. Sure there are some exceptions. Back before divorce was easier than getting a drivers license people had to stay together to survive. I don't know what I would do without my husband. He is my soul mate. I count my blessings every day and I don't try to find faults. I look for the good in him and there is plenty there to be found. He's the finest man I've ever known, next to my Dad. Patience, understanding, compromise when you can, support, loyalty and bite your tongue as often as possible. That's my recipe.

For example, a friend of mine's husband has to go out of town on business for the entire month of October. She bit his head off about it because they can't afford for her to travel with him. I told her she shouldn't make him feel guilty for making a living and that she should be grateful he has a job. Complaining about something you can't do anything about is not good nor is putting your spouse on a guilt trip.

[DV8tion]

Sounds like many have rationalized quitting very well indeed. If abuse is occurring and "mental" abuse is a very grey area. I have seen it go both ways. The three A's are not God's rules, and this needs to be kept in mind.Rememebr to be honest, with yourself, about what the last A is and don't fool yourself into believing everyone else has something you don't. Addiction issues are also a spouses duty to help their spouse with. Not an excuse to leave. Only through Love can we help those with major character flaws.

[HarvickFan29]

[ QUOTE ]
Charles said:
"Sothern girls don't sweat, they GLISTEN." http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Charles, what a great thing to say! You're warming this Southern girl's heart! Thanks for that! Your woman is really lucky to have you! Congrats on your wedding anniversary. I hope the next 13 are as great as the first 13 were!

[Warlady]

DV8, I have a real problem with telling a woman to stay in a physically and emotionally abusive relationship. There are occasions where your life depends on leaving. The abuser has to be willing to get help. I had an employee once whose husband put her in the hospital. He broke every bone in her face.

[DesertFox]

Allow me to throw a monkey in the wrench.

It's true that many Americans are quitters. That has always been the case and always will be the case. The issue, always, is "when is too much too much?"

The people who hacked America out of the wilderness quit the Spain, Germany and England of their day. The Founding Fathers quit the British commonwealth. Einstein quit Nazi Germany. It isn't the quitting that matters, but what follows.

There's much more to marital breakup than "the three A's." Quitting a marriage is often harder than starting because, beyond emotion, there's property and pride involved. But if you made a mistake at the start, you SHOULD start anew. Many, MANY people are broken emotionally and can't be fixed. If you hook up with such a one early on, the smart thing is NOT to stay around and stay around until you, too, are broken; the smart thing is to get away from such a one so that whichever of you is healthy has a decent chance at a decent life.

[Warlady]

I agree with you there Fox. That's why I said I have a problem telling someone they should stay in an abusive relationship.

[Charles]

Harvick said, [ QUOTE ]
Your woman is really lucky to have you! Congrats on your wedding anniversary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey this is Sherri, Charles' wife. He said it would be O.K. for me to write this. Thank you for the congrats! By the way...It has been 12 years~not 13! LOL Yes, I feel like I must be the luckiest gal in the world. Charles is a hopeless romantic~and at 42 years old and 5 kiddos later~I'd say I'm in pretty good company. Love, Respect, Trust, and our shared love of Jesus Christ has kept us HAPPY! Have a great weekend. Sherri

[dPrasse]

[ QUOTE ]
DV8tion said:
Sounds like many have rationalized quitting very well indeed. If abuse is occurring and "mental" abuse is a very grey area. I have seen it go both ways. The three A's are not God's rules, and this needs to be kept in mind.Rememebr to be honest, with yourself, about what the last A is and don't fool yourself into believing everyone else has something you don't. Addiction issues are also a spouses duty to help their spouse with. Not an excuse to leave. Only through Love can we help those with major character flaws.

[/ QUOTE ]
boy ..a newbie here and you know everyones story !
have you borrowed the "phoneline" to God ?
(and , yes , I saw your post was originally directed at one specific person on this forum ..." )..
at what time does a woman "quit" in your perfect world ? ...
when she is killed and all of you holier than though types stand around wringing your hands ?
hows about when the guy throws glasses and knives at the wife and kids .is that a good time for the woman to leave ?
what if the spouse refused for years to seek counseling ?

I'm so glad that you have never made mistakes in your life and can offer judgemental advice such as yours .God will surely be proud of you .the only human to get to Heaven w/o the aid of our Fathers Grace .....

dP
http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/patriot.gif

[dPrasse]

Congrats !
Charles &amp; Sherrie !

12 ..13 yrs ..don't matter ! he remembered he was still married !
that is a feat in of itself these days !
glad you too found each other!

dP
http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/patriot.gif

[Etaoin]

You pretty well hit again, B.L.

I waited till I was 30 for a committment. A blind date, and I told her on the 2nd date that we would marry. She never said yes, so a year later, I stood her in front of a Justice of the Peace, and she didn't say no. We reaffirmed our committment at St Gongolf's, in Germany and that was 45 years ago.

Easy, It wasn't...for either of us. I was an airline pilot with lots of opportunities, but I had and have never had much faith in "one night stands." She was an European with a strong feeling and belief in family. I'm proud to say that I have honored my committment.

Committment, Affection, and Respect are all superior to the media presentations of passion and love. Somewhere in "modernizing" things, reality and the expectations of people are somewhat distorted. Marriage is easy, and so is divorce, though the latter can get to be brutal. Making a marriage work, to be trite, is WORK. The rewards for the hard work is the family you raise. I don't know if there is a heaven or hell, but I do know that your future lies within your children.

[DesertFox]

Expectations shape everything. Movies have distorted our ability to think reasonably about romance.

[DV8tion]

I don't think I said anything about staying in a physically abusive relationship. I had a friend killed by his abusive wife. So I would have to be crazier than y'all seem to think I am to advocate that.
I have also, however, eseen some marriages that, with some work, could be saved abandoned over little more than working too much to pay for the excesses that the pair had built up. Then one partner feels they are being abused "neglected" in this particular case. I am just always concerned over the definition of abuse physical abuse is a cut-and-dried situation. LEAVE and leave fast.

[Warlady]

I think finances are the number one reason for marital discourse.

[DesertFox]

I used to think that. I now think finances merely test the marriage by reflecting underlying realities.

If the partners care more about each other than about looking good (bad) before the world, the marriage won't suffer even if the finances go to the dogs.

But not many marriages run that deep. As long as all us boys and girls have our toys and diversions, we can get over bumps by just not paying them too much attention. But once our diversions are gone and we're left to our own devices and to each other -- THEN we see what's really important, and all too often it ain't our partner.

[Maggie_T]

[ QUOTE ]
Warlady said:
I think finances are the number one reason for marital discourse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? That's terrible. Unless your other half is an irresponsible spendrift, a drunk, or a gambler, I can't see how you can blame him/her for a difficult financial situation.

And what about "for better or for worse," and all that?

I agree with Fox. I married James because he's good, honest, reliable, and responsible. Among many other wonderful things. Money was the last thing I thought about. So sometimes we're a bit strapped for cash. Doesn't everybody go through that sort of thing? Big deal. We just make do without some things till we can afford them again. Don't get me wrong. I do understand the importance of money. But I also understand that there are many other things that are much more important.

[Warlady]

So do we Maggie. I'm just saying that statistically that's where most couples argue..over money.

[Peachdiane]

Boy, I wish money were the least of my problems.

I can't believe I'm gonna post this. It has that 'Lifetime for Women' feel and there's nothing more than I hate. In fact when I hear stories like these, this graphic comes to mind:

http://pluto.imagemagician.com/images/peachdiane/catpoint.gif

But it needs to be said. DV8, I saw where you called me a quitter before you edited your post. I needed to take a couple days off, so I wouldn't say things I'd regret later...

You said, be very careful what you define as abuse, the last "A." I realize every marriage with TRUE love and respect has some bumps along the way. That's to be expected. Couples with mutual respect and connections can always start over from pert just about anything.

I can handle all the yelling or having things thrown at me or bruises, they do heal. I can handle walking on eggshells, thinking very carefully about the next words coming out of my mouth. I can handle going to a crisis shelter and transitional housing. And I can handle trashing the place. I consider that more of a "getting things out of his system." I learned a long time ago not to place value on material things; they were either ruined or replaced with apology items.

What I can't handle are years of put-downs, name calling followed by "Just kidding" (There is always a grain of truth to that), manipulating, and assaults against self-esteem, it drains your soul, robs you of feeling where all you know is you exist, nothing more. Comments like "You're too sensitive" "You can't take a joke, what's wrong with you, making such a big deal out of nothing." "You know I didn't mean anything I said. I'm the one who loves you more than anyone else in the world loves you--remember." "For such a smart person you do the dumbest things like..." These words scar for life...they take the power away and make the abuser feel more powerful.

Other things like taking what I say and twist it around, try to make me think I said something else. I'm not stupid....I know what I said!

I'd listen but if I wanted to be listened to, it'd end up back at his feet. His problems are bigger, he's got more stress....once I got a glass thrown at me and then "I'm sorry I didn't mean to, the economy is bad. I'm worried about getting laid off." Shall I write Clinton and thank him for having a glass thrown at my face?

And so on and on it goes...when one partner goes on the attack with verbal garbage, the other partner is supposed to feel love and warm fuzzy feelings? Nope.....what do we do in attacks? We either 1) start to hate 2) attack back sometimes 3) want to get away from the pain they're dishing out 4) don't feel like being in a relationship anymore and 5) feel like we've lost our best friend..... not to sound like a drama queen, but be very careful to listen to both men and women who feel verbally battered even though you can't see the bruises and scars.

I gave him two years to pick up the phone and call a counselor. The number was in his favorite book but gosh, it's just too much energy. Takes less energy to drive down to CompUsa and buy Linksys and other nifty computer toys. Why did I give up and quit? Not for me but because of my son who asked we not pick up "dad" from work until he (my son) was asleep, or could he go hide in his closet in case the littlest thing set "dad" off?

Any good parent ensures their home is a refuge, a place where their child can feel protected and loved. That means no violence, intoxication, sexual displays, or uncontrolled anger. So yeah, maybe I am a failure as a wife when I quit and gave up on the marriage but I've wn my son I'm not gonna enable the behavior and cower in the corner. He'll grow up knowing marriage shouldn't be about power and control and it's not okay to treat humans that way.

Back to the initial post on baggage, I've decided it is impossible to go through life without gathering baggage that you will carry with you into your relationships. See you gotta keep the negative baggage from past relationships from becoming barriers that are impossibly high to overcome in new relationships.

Relationships succeed when both people bring compatible "baggage" with them. The trick is to dump out those items that negatively impact and to keep those items that provide valuable relationship insights.

If I enter a new relationship, I'm not gonna go carrying so much baggage where I cannot get past the pain to see that all marriages and all men are not the same. Sometimes all it takes is meeting someone who has matching baggage. And sometimes, it's best to dump some of the baggage.

Psychobabble aside, bottom line is, THE HORSE IS DEAD AND I GOT OFF. If people have such a problem with that then tough shit.

[Warlady]

Good for you Diane!! It takes courage to leave an abusive partner, especially when you have children. There are times when it's best for the children to leave. It was for my Mother so I can speak from experience. I loved my Dad and he more than made up for his abuse from when we were young but I was glad when my Mother left him. There was never any peace in the house when he was there because he was an abusive alcoholic who didn't want to quit drinking. Years later, after he quit, he became a totally different person but we were all grown by then. At the end of their lives they had made amends and had become friends.

[DV8tion]

Let me put this to rest once and for all. The reference to any particular person was removed ,for cause, and very quckly. It was visible for maybe 3 or 4 minutes in the dead of night. I edited the post because I immediately realized no one needed be singled out.
Firstly, you should realize I was raised in a United Methodist and Greek Orthodox family being that my father was a first generation immigrant. I went to theological school(Martin Methodist College) and was formally trained as a minister. I am NOT by any stretch a "Dirt floor fundamentalist", nor am I an idle "Hand wringer" in cases of abuse. As a part of my education I counciled the abused(male and female), both in crisis intervention centers an hospitals.
Being acused of defending the abusive is in itself abusive. I have been away from these forums for almost 2 years, so I can't expect you to rememeber much of who I am. I had a close friend that was abused physically by his wife for almost 4 years before she finally shot and killed him. Hence, the "I have seen it go both ways" comment.
In closing I would like to say it has hurt me that some would rush to judge me in this way. I am truly sorry that you have been through the abuse you have, and I couldn't respect you more for the courage and self-respect you showed in leaving your abusive partner.
Sincerely,
Robert "DV8tion" Cherolis

[dPrasse]

<font color="blue">was this intended to be an apology ? </font>

Let me put this to rest once and for all. The reference to any particular person was removed ,for cause, and very quckly. It was visible for maybe 3 or 4 minutes in the dead of night. I edited the post because I immediately realized no one needed be singled out.

<font color="blue"> i'msorry , i didn't realize that 7AM was thedead of night ...
and then , you edited your post to broadly swipe any one that has ,
"quit " ..... your quote .. Sounds like many have rationalized quitting very well indeed. ..i'm sorry , but I took that as a rather pompous attitude to take with folks that you do not know ....</font>


Firstly, you should realize I was raised in a United Methodist and Greek Orthodox family being that my father was a first generation immigrant. I went to theological school(Martin Methodist College) and was formally trained as a minister.

<font color="blue">ok ..... your point ? the many priests fooling around with lil boys were all "trained" , also ....does the fact that you went to school make you a judge of peoples lives that you do not know ? I've known a few abusive ministers , too .....</font>

I am NOT by any stretch a "Dirt floor fundamentalist",

<font color="blue">i'll let someoneelse handle that insult ... </font>

nor am I an idle "Hand wringer" in cases of abuse. As a part of my education I counciled the abused(male and female), both in crisis intervention centers an hospitals.

<font color="blue">well , i hope you listened to them before you sent them on their merry way .... </font>

Being acused of defending the abusive is in itself abusive.

<font color="blue"> oh pulease ....... </font>

I have been away from these forums for almost 2 years, so I can't expect you to rememeber much of who I am.

<font color="blue"> nope , I wasn't even here 2 years ago ...maybe an introduction before generalized blasts would be nice .... </font>

I had a close friend that was abused physically by his wife for almost 4 years before she finally shot and killed him.

<font color="blue">Sorry to hear that story .... maybe if he'd hadfriends to help him get out , it would have been different .... seems as though the the one that leaves is labeled , as YOU said ..a quiter ! that is a HEAVY guilt to lay on someone ....</font>

Hence, the "I have seen it go both ways" comment.

<font color="blue">well , you came off as questioning "emotional a=buse" as being in a grey area .. ... </font>

In closing I would like to say it has hurt me that some would rush to judge me in this way.

<font color="blue"> it hurt YOU to be judged ? YOU are the one that came in firing at Di and then editing your post to make a generalized blast at anyone that has "quit" ..... that is a typical "guilt trip" that abusers lay on their victim .... put it back on the one that was attacked first .... </font>

I am truly sorry that you have been through the abuse you have, and I couldn't respect you more for the courage and self-respect you showed in leaving your abusive partner.

<font color="blue">well , that statement should have beenyour opening statement !! </font>

dP

[nosferatuscoffin]

Not to be picky, but shouldn't this thread be in the Other News or Members Forum?

Good for you Diane, for leaving an abusive husband. I have had a sister and some good female friends endure such sh** from pricks like that. Those bottom feeders give good guys like us a bad name. They need to have asses kicked and be given a verbal tongue lashing that would make Hillary quake in her boots. Nothing more cowardly than asswipes like them.

Edit: I see that this has been moved from Warlady's Forum to this one. Good. http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[DoctorDoom]

Generic, untargeted comments follow.

My suggestion to minimize the marital nightmares: institute a trial marriage status that lasts for ten years or until children are involved. It will be totally commitment-free and can be dissolved by either party at any time within the ten years, or by the state for criminal reasons.

The world is full of assholes and many of them are married (I speak as a formerly married asshole who learned too late what it takes to make a marriage work). Ten years should be more than ample time for the assholes to show their true colors. They can't hide their nature that long.

If at the end of the ten years the two people choose to continue the marriage, then vows will be exchanged and it will becomes permanent, since both people will know each other intimately by then and will be accepting each other, warts and all.

[DesertFox]

Doc, if a woman discovered all my warts, I'd NEVER get any.

[DV8tion]

Targeted Comments Follow:
What you know about me could scarecly cover the bottom of a thimble.
Quote : was this intended to be an apology ?

Hardly.

Quote : i'msorry , i didn't realize that 7AM was thedead of night ...
and then , you edited your post to broadly swipe any one that has ,
"quit " ..... your quote .. Sounds like many have rationalized quitting very well indeed. ..i'm sorry , but I took that as a rather pompous attitude to take with folks that you do not know ....

Maybe you should consider time zones and if it is dark it is night for me. As for pompasity I believe sir you take the cake.

QUOTE : ok ..... your point ? the many priests fooling around with lil boys were all "trained" , also ....does the fact that you went to school make you a judge of peoples lives that you do not know ? I've known a few abusive ministers , too .....

You ,being a free thinking conservative, should see that this is more liberal propogandizing. What could make them happier than to undermine the peoples faith in their church, and therefore be rid of christianity altogether. Check the numbers of public school teachers guilty of the offense and see if they are calling for an end to public shools. Your assasination of my character being a perfect example of such. I have known abusive people from all walks of life and if you are accusing me of such behavior you are mistaken.

QUOTE : i'll let someoneelse handle that insult ...

I have no idea what you are saying here.

QUOTE : well , i hope you listened to them before you sent them on their merry way ....

I still am in correspondence with many of these victims. So no I would say that is a false assumption. Most would understand that my training qualifies me for such work. In that vein, I would like to ask what you have done to help the abuse problem yourself.

QUOTE : nope , I wasn't even here 2 years ago ...maybe an introduction before generalized blasts would be nice ....

Maybe recognizing that the quick editing was intended to keep your accusation from being true.

QUOTE : Sorry to hear that story .... maybe if he'd hadfriends to help him get out , it would have been different .... seems as though the the one that leaves is labeled , as YOU said ..a quiter ! that is a HEAVY guilt to lay on someone ....

Maybe he HAD friends that TRIED to help. You should realize also that when a man is abused there is an entirely different set of difficulties in helping the victim. It has nothing to do with being labeled a quitter more the embarrassment of a woman beating the victim and the police and legal system not taking the situation seriously. I never said that in physical abuse cases the person that leaves is a quitter if you would read my earlier posts you would have see that.

QUOTE :oh pulease .......

Sorry bub that was your own definition of abuse thrown back at you are you now backing off of your own definition.

QUOTE : it hurt YOU to be judged ? YOU are the one that came in firing at Di and then editing your post to make a generalized blast at anyone that has "quit" ..... that is a typical "guilt trip" that abusers lay on their victim .... put it back on the one that was attacked first ....

I saw that you were on the forums, but never saw Di. The intent was for her NEVER to see it.(I reread her post and saw misconceptions well before YOU did. And what do YOU know of typical abusers ? That is to say, "What is your experience with the subject?" Displacementis a common defense in these situations but not universal.

[dPrasse]

[ QUOTE ]
nosferatuscoffin said:
Not to be picky, but shouldn't this thread be in the Other News or Members Forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

or possibly Flame Wars http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon127.gif

http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon1.gif http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon62.gif http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laser.gif http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nutkick.gif
http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif

[Peachdiane]

[ QUOTE ]
Warlady said:
It was for my Mother so I can speak from experience. I loved my Dad and he more than made up for his abuse from when we were young but I was glad when my Mother left him. There was never any peace in the house when he was there

[/ QUOTE ]

WL, I'm glad they became friends! I've often said he's great as a friend and husband to someone else and I'd love to be friends but I just cannot LIVE with him or be married to him.

[ QUOTE ]
It was visible for maybe 3 or 4 minutes in the dead of night. I edited the post because I immediately realized no one needed be singled out.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The intent was for her NEVER to see it

[/ QUOTE ]

But I did and it's ok, my husband never intended to abuse either, and you're right, no one should be singled out but whether it was singling me out or many people out, it's still a sweeping generalization. They might have very good reasons.

[ QUOTE ]
Being acused of defending the abusive is in itself abusive.

[/ QUOTE ]

No one is accusing you of defending abusers. And I do understand the male stigma and am very sorry he got killed but wasn't your friend able to get proof of some sort? I know a man who was lucky to be able to prove the abuse he was receiving at the hands of his wife, which enabled him to get himself and the children out of the abusive relationship.

[ QUOTE ]
As for pompasity I believe sir you take the cake.

[/ QUOTE ]

dP has strong opinions but is not pompous by all means. Pompous jerks don't offer up their prized Colts to someone they hardly know. Without formal training, somehow he understood divorce and gave an undemanding presence online just to listen even though he had every reason to run away screaming with my "issues" and we all know men don't do issues. http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon129.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Good for you Diane, for leaving an abusive husband. I have had a sister and some good female friends endure such sh** from pricks like that. Those bottom feeders give good guys like us a bad name. They need to have asses kicked and be given a verbal tongue lashing that would make Hillary quake in her boots. Nothing more cowardly than asswipes like them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you, Nos. Don't worry, I know there are good guys out there http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Bottom line is, many adults who divorce beat themselves up enough without needing the help of sweeping generalizations such as bad, sick, weak, wrong, quitters, failures, irresponsible, losers, immoral, and/or sinners... Even though it's so common, there is still much shame associated.

[blakjaque shelac]

PeachDiane said:

"not to sound like a drama queen, but be very careful to listen to both men and women who feel verbally battered even though you can't see the bruises and scars."

PD is bang on the money with this coment.

And, not to take away from her own ordeal, in today's "women are victims" environment, it's worth pointing out the accuracy of PD's statement: women and men.

Anyone remember the comedic stereotype of the hen-pecked man? The meek little guy terrified of his over-bearing wife? He appears less frequently thse days because it's not politically correct to imply women could be abusers, but the stereotype exists for good reason.

Twisting words around. Of the two sexes,women are far and away the better at turning words around to their mate's detriment. "Maybe" becomes "You promised"; "No you don't look fat" becomes "I can tell you don't mean it by your tone";

Sudden irrational outbursts - they leave one with a feeling of walking in a mine-field.

Subtle threats of leaving. And today's anti-father courts and legislation make that a terrifying one. Both parties know that should she take the least little offense, she can make him become little more than a visitor in his kids' lives. I recall something about absolutepower corrupting absolutely.

Public insults. Today, it's so fashionable for women to slag men, that she doesn't even have to direct it at him. "Men are so.." is such an accepted element of "polite" conversation anymore. Take that further, to specific personal attacks, and you have a potent weapon to convince him that he really is a piece of dirt.

Driving him away from his 'uncooth' friends; demanding the house be decorated and cleaned according to her 'civilized' tastes; deriding him for not earning more or flaunting the fact that she earns more than him (I knew one guy whose wife earned three times his income - he was still expected to pay his 'share' of the bills and then, when he had no money left, she'd take off to Barbados alone on holiday); men are pigs, etc. etc. ,etc.

I suspect there is a large body of male walking wounded out there, their self-esteem as men battered by a feminist society and then buried by their girlfriends, but unable to speak about it.

[DoctorDoom]

Speaking as a divorced dad, IMO most people are unsuited for marriage before their 30s and for a significant percentage, never is too soon.

Above I suggested tongue-in-cheek that trial marriages should be the law, but there is no doubt that far too many people tie the proverbial knot with at best a surface knowledge of their mates. It's the ease and haste with which marriage is entered into that result in failures.

Much today that is attributed to love is in fact the result of lust. Love at first sight is bullshit. Love is something that follows a period of closeness and the respective baring of souls. The likelihood of finding the perfect partner for life is exactly zero, because we are imperfect beings. However, it takes the wisdom that comes with maturity to realize that truth, to see past the lustful physical attraction that is the sole basis for marriage in the majority of under-30 unions. And, if that's the only bond, then it's going to be stretched to the breaking point as the same attractions are extended to others.


Doom's Law # 10: never marry someone at 25 that you wouldn't want to be living with at 50.

[Peachdiane]

[ QUOTE ]
blakjaque shelac said:
I suspect there is a large body of male walking wounded out there, their self-esteem as men battered by a feminist society and then buried by their girlfriends, but unable to speak about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh absolutely!! Like Nos said before, God didn't give women dicks but sharp tongues. I've been talking with my bro a lot now that we "have something in common." I asked if I could share his story and he said fine. He's working on a book pretty much from a male to other males.

He had told me my sis in law said he was too happy for her moods, needed to "grow up" too, and sell his company, do something else, make more money. If they were out with friends she would tell him he's not sitting up straight, or not talking loud enough, or not using good eye contact..... yadda yadda. When she saw he used Ivory soap she said Ivory is for babies, that it was just another indication of how he acts like a child. If he forgot an item at the grocery she'd explode and say its just another sign of his refusal to grow up, of acting like a child, and so on and on. I know my bro and he doesn't act like a child. But I was stunned. My sweet, petite sister in law? Who knew?

However, I had a flashback and remembered how it was the one time I was visiting and I did see how she twisted what he said to fit some preconceived notion she had about men in general. She cried during this ten second Rodney King video. My bro said, "Well, I don't know what could have lead up to this?" I knew he meant he didn't know if this guy had a gun he wouldn't relinquish, or if he was hiding something with his body, and I agreed. Nobody knew anything about the details of the event.

He told me later she told the counselor he said Rodney King deserved it. That is NOT what he said. I'm amazed at her ability to completely overlook what he had actually said, and to twist it into something else.

He said she was spending too much so she twisted it around and confronted him about ignoring the family and he calmly told her she was right. He locked himself up in the study trying to figure out how he would pay her excessive bills. Better to agonize over how to afford her spending than deny her. I can see she did a great job of stripping him of his self-esteem, dignity and peace of mind. Its hard to get him angry to stand up for himself because keeping silent and apathetic is his way of self defense. I am astounded that any human being can treat another like this when they say they love them. http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif

Anyway the last straw was that as an "FYI for future reference" he had loaded the dishwasher "wrong" The "bitch-meter" immediately dinged. That's when he realized that for her, he was the Great Satan, the author of all her miseries. His politics were wrong. His dreams were mocked. His feelings were belittled. His sexual needs were ignored, etc. He left and is a new relationship where he is treated with respect even when she is angry. He is listened to, and she does not play the game of "who is the worst offender." The ex switched counselors and was diagnosed as "borderline personality disorder." Says she has changed and wants him back.

He told me this:

"The good news is: There is a way out of Hell.

The bad news is: You have to get up, and walk out on your own two feet.

My cousin told me the same thing basically: "Grow a freaking spine, would ya?"

http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon16.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Doom's Law # 10: never marry someone at 25 that you wouldn't want to be living with at 50.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I definitely broke that law when I married someone at 24 I definitely don't want to be living with at 50! Make that 40! Actually make that 35! Well, never mind..... it's a great law! http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon109.gif

[dPrasse]

blakjaque shelac ,

you hit that right on !

in my case , it was just lil needling comments , that taken by themselves meant nothing , but , all at once the whole stack hit me between the eyes , and looking back , Doom is right .....
at 21, it was lust ...completely ignoring all of the red flags ....
I actually did call off the engagement for a bit , because something didn't feel right ..i just wasn't smart enough to understand ..I was told that it was just jitters ...... go ahead , as planned ....
after all , didn't somebody say love and patience conquers all ? http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon1.gif

but the one comment that hit me , that i just "quit" , as was so nicely stated , in trying to explain a problem i had on the farm one Sunday , and trying to get away w/o any family help ......i got ....
"i've heard it all before ." ... great ! i won't needto talk anymore ! http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon129.gif

other tham "marital relations" , we had no common interests ....
never again ......
round #2 will be with someone that i can have fun with , interact with ,outside of the bedroom ... a person that we already had common interests , long before meeting up ....

I want http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon76.gif not http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon125.gif

http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/patriot.gif

[DoctorDoom]

Round 2??? Oy vey!

[dPrasse]

[ QUOTE ]
DoctorDoom said:
Round 2??? Oy vey!

[/ QUOTE ]

Call me a glutton for punishment ?!


dP
http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/loo.gif

[blakjaque shelac]

Wow, PD and DP (get together you two, and your intials can be a palindrome)

I'm sorry to read both those stories. Just goes to show - there really is such a thing as an emotionally and/or psychologically abusive woman out there, and it's probably alot more common than anyone cares to admit. Reason I'm aware of it is I've seen it happen to a couple of close friends.

A radio station in Canada has a telling ad on it. A woman talking about meeting men: "I wish I could meet a really nice, sensitive guy - - - so I can crush his heart into little pieces."

The good Doctor is on track , too, I think. But I'm not sure it's simply age, but a lack of directino, of education, that is the culprit. At ~21, a woman has been reading about every single possible aspect of relationships since her mom would allow her to read Seventeen. She's received endless advice on what behaviour she should demand from a potential beau. She's been pumped with messages about how she deserves the best and doesn't really need a guy.

But who educates young men in the ways of the world? Noone. Guys have to figure it out for themselves. And many get taken because of it.

As I mentioned in Amber's current thread, I 've seen special materials for high school girls that include a list of behaviours girls should demand of boyfriends. Things like:

An acceptable boyfriend:
- is polite
- listens to you
- is not posessive
- is not self-centred
- doesn't push for sex
- treats you with respect
- doesn't get mad easily
- forgets your mistakes
- always trusts you
-deserves your tust
- hangs in there through tough times

The "always trusts you" yet "deserves your tust" pair just killed me. It doesn't mention her deserving his trust. He must just always trusts her, but has to deserve her trust.

Anyway - someone needs to undertake the social education of boys. Teach them these same, or analogous, points. Geez, teaching them that they even should evaluate a mate, that not all women are worth their time, while others are very worthy of a good effort, would be a start.

[rmasci]

>Wow, PD and DP (get together you two, and your intials can be a palindrome)<

Over my dead body.

Nice of you to slander. So you got a Colt huh? I give you verry good reason to use it!

[DV8tion]

[ QUOTE ]
DoctorDoom said:
Round 2??? Oy vey!

[/ QUOTE ]
http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yeahthat.gif

[CatKozTX]

[ QUOTE ]
rmasci said:
>Wow, PD and DP (get together you two, and your intials can be a palindrome)<

Over my dead body.

Nice of you to slander. So you got a Colt huh? I give you verry good reason to use it!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Rich, do you know what a Protection Order is and what it's for, specifically the provision in Georgia (19-13-4. Orders of Protection - Provisions) that reads as follows:

"item (9):Order the respondent to refrain from harassing or interfering with the victim"

Does this look at all familiar to you?

Get a clue and GO AWAY! I can safely say you are not welcome here and if Di is smart (which she most certainly is), she'll drag your sorry ass back into court again for posting here. http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon122.gif

[Rink]

On the idea of a healthy relationship, this song would to me, epitomize it...

Heres the lyrics:
[ QUOTE ]
Johnny's daddy was taking him fishin'
When he was eight years old
A little girl came through the front gate holding a fishing pole
His dad looked down and smiled, said we can't leave her behind
Son, I know you don't want her to go but someday you'll change your mind
And Johnny said "Take Jimmy Johnson, take Tommy Thompson, take my best friend Bo
Take anybody that you want as long as she don't go
Take any boy in the world
Daddy, please don't take the girl

Same old boy
Same sweet girl
Ten years down the road
He held her tight and kissed her lips
In front of the picture show
Stranger came and pulled a gun
Grabbed her by the arm Said "If you do what I tell you to, there
Won't be any harm" And Johnny said "Take my money, take my wallet, take my credit cards
Here's the watch that my grandpa gave me
Here's the key to my car
Mister give it a whirl
But please don't take the girl

Same old boy
Same sweet girl
Five years down the road
There's going to be a little one, and she says it's time to go
Doctor says the baby's fine but you'll have to leave
'Cause his momma's fading fast and Johnny hit his knees
And there he prayed
Take the very breath you gave me
Take the heart from my chest
I'll gladly take her place if you'll let me
Make this my last request
Take me out of this world
God, please don't take the girl

Johnny's daddy
Was taking him fishin'
When he was eight years old


[/ QUOTE ]

[tacitus]

[ QUOTE ]
rmasci said:
>Wow, PD and DP (get together you two, and your intials can be a palindrome)<

Over my dead body.

Nice of you to slander. So you got a Colt huh? I give you verry good reason to use it!

[/ QUOTE ]

A threat to a member?? Cool your jets!!

[dPrasse]

Tacitus,
perfect example of verbal spousal abuse tied to a threat ....
nice addition to the thread .....

[Warlady]

rmasci, I would strongly suggest you take your differences elsewhere. If Diane needs me I will sign an affidavit that you are threatening and stalking her on my website. If you want to spend time in jail then keep posting your threats.

[DoctorDoom]

The dickhead is under a restraining order and is violating it by being here. He does NOT belong here.

[Warlady]

Doc he is going to be banned. I just wanted to give him some rope. He's hung himself.

[DoctorDoom]

Danke!

[Warlady]

No problem Doc. Stalkers are not allowed at FC.

[CatKozTX]

Thanks Warlady! All of us who know and love Di know what she has been through and appreciate how quickly you took care of this!

This is not the first time he has done this! http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon122.gif Let's all hope that the S.O.B. finally learns his lesson.

[dPrasse]

[ QUOTE ]
blakjaque shelac said:
Wow, PD and DP (get together you two, and your intials can be a palindrome)



[/ QUOTE ]

what do you have against Peach to wish such a thing on the poor gal ?
http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon133.gif
I'd pity the girl !
http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ QUOTE ]

A radio station in Canada has a telling ad on it. A woman talking about meeting men: "I wish I could meet a really nice, sensitive guy - - - so I can crush his heart into little pieces."

<font color="red"> bbbwaaaahhhhhaaaaaaahhhhhhhaaaaaaaa </font>

But who educates young men in the ways of the world? Noone. Guys have to figure it out for themselves. And many get taken because of it.

<font color="blue">just common manners would be a start .... and opening doors , and pulling out chairs ... i think the womans movemen killed that " decent" behavior ....women look shocked when this scruffy looking guy holds doors for them at stores ..... http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/patriot.gif </font>



An acceptable boyfriend:

Anyway - someone needs to undertake the social education of boys. Teach them these same,

<font color="blue">true ...nice list ...... </font>



[/ QUOTE ]

[kathrinM]

http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon129.gif lol

and to this topic: if my man would beat me up I would leave him. I would make an exeption if we were married and he just slapped me and then promised to never do it again and never does it again indeed.
That's the only exeption I would make. The moment someone brings me in hospital he crosses a border.

And.. talking from experience.. I once had a bf who slapped and pushed me more than only 1 time. We broke up.
I am happy I never married this other "fool". (looking back he was a fool indeed)
I met someone special after that who would of never/would never hurt me in any way on purpose. But especially not physically.

Beating up your wife/gf is like the loudest/most visible sign that a guy sucks.

http://freeconservatives.com/smilies/pmusic1.gif

[Peachdiane]

Oh boy! Would someone please explain slander? IIRC it is false defamation and I made no such false defamation. http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Rich, do you know what a Protection Order is and what it's for, specifically the provision in Georgia (19-13-4. Orders of Protection - Provisions) that reads as follows:

"item (9):Order the respondent to refrain from harassing or interfering with the victim"

Does this look at all familiar to you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well back in May during the first contempt he looked surprised when the judge told him protection orders include emails and electronic posts so obviously the orders weren't well read.

Cat, you're amazing and very resourceful!

[ QUOTE ]
rmasci, I would strongly suggest you take your differences elsewhere. If Diane needs me I will sign an affidavit that you are threatening and stalking her on my website. If you want to spend time in jail then keep posting your threats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you Brenda and others for your concern! I asked an officer to write up an incident report and then obtained a copy this morning.

[ QUOTE ]
I would make an exeption if we were married and he just slapped me and then promised to never do it again and never does it again indeed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kathrin, when this all started I believed that. The whole cycle is like a freaking drama play. You meet someone, marry, you're in love and everything is great. Then something happens that is not so great. An explosive argument, a jealous fit, a glass thrown across the room shatters against the wall.

You're shocked, perhaps frightened. You assess things and rationalize them away. You tell youself, well, okay, until then the relationship has been perfect. Your friendship is really important, and you hate the thought of being alone so you decide the incident really wasn't that important. Your partner makes it so you apologize. I mean, after all, if you hadn't been so demanding or you hadn't been on the phone so long or your mother hadn't come over, this wouldn't have happened. All your fault!

Your partner promises it won't happen again and brings you gifts, takes you out to dinner. So you carry on as if nothing happened.

This repeats a few times, maybe taking different forms. Your partner puts you down. Or doesn't talk to you as much as before. But you're in love so you try harder. Little incidents continue to happen and of course they won't happen again. So you continue to ignore them. Then one night your partner is really angry and raises a hand at you. Or your partner puts you down. You're not thin enough, smart enough, don't make enough money.....

Now you're a little more frightened, maybe a little more angry. But you decide what the heck, everyone has problems and you can deal with this. Shit, you were RAISED to deal with this. Your partner apologizes again, brings gifts, takes you out to dinner. Things are better than ever and go on for a while like this. You feel proud you can accept your partner's idiosyncrasies. After all, it could be worse. And God knows, you're not perfect either.

And then things change again. Maybe your partner ridicules you in public, or gives you a slap. You're very hurt now. Your partner apologizes, brings you gifts, takes you out to dinner, You forgive. Things are better than ever.

Then something else happens; something bigger than the last thing. Now maybe it's escalated to screaming fits of rage and having things thrown at you. You apologize and explain and soothe your partner's feathers. You assure your partner it's okay, you understand, there's no reason to be angry, everyone needs to vent once in a while, and gee, there aren't any scars from the glass, so it's all okay.

Your partner brings you gifts, takes you out to dinner. Things are better than ever. And things go on like this for a while.

Then one night something big happens. Like your partner, whom you love with all your heart, gets angry yet again and locks your kids in their bedroom. Without supper. Without lights. And maybe you speak up. And maybe this time instead of a glass, it's a heavy container or a ball bat that hits you. And you cry.

And your partner apologizes. More gifts, more dinners, more promises it will never happen again. And you believe every time. Things are better than ever.

Then it happens again. And each time it gets a little worse. Or it takes another form. Like your partner decides you shouldn't have a particular friend because that friend is the one causing all your problems. Or hacks into your email to see who you're talking to. Or your partner should manage all the money because that will eliminate some of your partner's stress. And you agree, because after all, your partner wasn't like this in the beginning, so it must be something you're doing, right?

Someday your partner may do something so bad that you kick your partner out of the house. Or you run away yourself. But oh, you miss the love, don't you? The good times? So when your partner apologizes this time, with more gifts, more promises, you go back home or let your partner back in the house, knowing this time your partner means it. This time it really will change.

Things are better than ever.

Oh but they change again!

If the abuse is physical, one night you find yourself in the emergency room, lying about how you got that black eye or that broken arm. If the abuse is emotional, you may find yourself in a therapist's office trying to figure out what you are doing wrong. Your family and friends try to talk to you and you pretend to listen but decide to yourself they have no clue what they're talking about. After all you love your partner and your partner loves you.

Your partner brings you gifts. You don't want to go out to dinner.

Things are great for a while. Better than ever.

And then things start going down hill again. More violence, more cruelty, more belittlement, more control, whatever form the abuse is taking, it just gets worse. You may even think of shooting in self defense but you don't, not in front of the kids, and because it'd just be your luck you'd end up in jail. And one day you don't come home. Because you're dead or have gone insane.

And why?

Because you kept doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I have incidents documented in my notebook but they don't count for anything. Let me tell you, I looked VERY stupid saying "Well, I believed him so I didn't think it was necessary to call a cop." Now all we have to go on is testimony from my kid, my mom, the neighbors, the two incidents that ARE on report, and now this.

So, my point to all this is, even if you get slapped (or whatever) and you believe it won't happen again, get a report anyway. That way there is some evidence and the abuser knows you're serious. Don't be a dumb shit like me and make the same mistakes I did.

Ok I guess I've done enough public service announcements for the month! http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/patriot.gif http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smack.gif

[Wyatt_Junker]

The sin/repent cycle of domestic abuse is like a very thorough washing machine. Just when you think the rinse cycle is over, the spin cycle kicks in and is replaced with a second round of rinse.

It becomes a ritual. Adherents get something out of it. Of what, I am unsure. A bit of marred psychology: primal tendencies are fed, nutured and rewarded.

The only problem is that its a real, living ritual. Its not a play. Its not a rehearsal. Its not the World Wresslin' Federation. And that sin/repent cycle won't stay its course forever. Washing machines break down.

And it looks something like this:

Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Repent. Sin. Coma. Death.

And even if one breaks the cycle midway before the final act, its not to say that there won't be repurcussions as in brain damage or soul damage. All those loads of dirty laundry add up. And the human cheekbone can only endure so much weathering.

Don't be idle and don't second guess. Get out.

[DesertFox]

http://freeconservatives.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yeahthat.gif

[LadyHawk108]

Diane, very well said. Things will get better....they did, for me.

[blakjaque shelac]

Sometimes I hate liking objectivity, but someone has to do it.

When things have gone as terribly for someone as it has for PD, obviously all you want is to make sure it never happens again.

In service of that objective, however, some elements in modern society demonstrate a particular zeal.

Are all partners who throw a fit one day going to be abusers? No.

But, in a lot of North America, it is considered domestic abuse, punishable by expulsion from one's home by court order, to display any form of physical anger in front of your spouse. She makes him crazy, taunts him with stories of all the men that would take her in a second, reminds him that she'd get the kids, the house, everything, in a divorce. In a moment of absolute frustration him punches the door. It leaves a knuckle mark. He's had his pride shattered, threats of losing his children and home, insults. But she calls the cops and it's he who is now officially a domestic abuser. If she presses the case, he is arrested, taken to a special "family" court and told that either he admit his crime or he'll be prohibited from returning home until after the court date. Sound crazy? Happened to NHL star Patrick Roy

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/sports/DailyNews/roy001023.html

You have to draw the line somewhere, but sometimes it seems as if the "all men are evil, all women are victims" hysteria has dragged the line a little too far.

[CatKozTX]

(please delete)

[kathrinM]

Hmm Di I understand your point. I'm sorry that this happened to you.
I'm thankful to god i broke up with my ex before it totally escaladed.