Senate passes voucher plan

[The_RANDy_Corporation]

The camels nose under the edge of the tent.
Good news from the senate for once.
****

Senate Approves Landmark School Voucher Plan

By Christina Ling

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate on Thursday approved the country's first federally funded educational voucher scheme, which will enable some poor public school students in Washington D.C. to attend private schools.

The controversial voucher plan, so-called because it gives the families of around 2,000 eligible Washington students vouchers worth up to $7,500 each for private school tuition, was part of a delayed 2004 budget bill that passed 65-28.

President Bush backs the idea but it is strongly opposed by many Democrats who say it will undermine public schools and is unfair to students left behind. Local civic leaders and parents in Washington are divided over the issue. . . . .

Yahoo (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=6&u=/nm/20040122/ts_nm/congress_vouchers_dc)

[Westbrook]

Ooooooo, I LUVVIT!!!

Not that I would touch a dime of it, being a committed home schooler, but just because it enflames the Left.

[Longhorn_Platinum]

[ QUOTE ]
The_RANDy_Corporation said:
President Bush backs the idea but...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon17.gif ...it is strongly opposed by many Democrats who say it will undermine public schools and is unfair to students left behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/serious.gif <font color="blue">Poor babies. This'll mean less money for overpaid "school" district superintendents.</font>

[Celebraman]

It's about time. More competition is always a good thing.

[Naturalized-Texan]

Yesterday, Rush mentioned that some in DC want to impeach some high official - either the Mayor or the Superintendent of Schools - because of that person's support for vouchers.

[S-T]

I graduated from a Christian school in 1992, and I'm against vouchers. I'm concerned this really IS "the camels nose under the edge of the tent." I'm afraid this will lead to government meddling in private schools. It won't happen under Bush, but imagine if a Democrat gets elected in 2008.

It is a long-established fact that with government money comes government strings. Once private schools start to take money from government in the form of a voucher, they open themselves up to government interference in their operations. Bible-based science or history textbooks, as well as classes on the Bible itself and daily chapel services, could be in jeopardy if government starts demanding they be removed as a condition for receiving federal money.

The reason private schools shine so much brighter than government schools is freedom from intrusive government regulations. If government puts its fingers into private schools, the quality of education could suffer. We have seen what government has done with the schools it controls: why would we allow the government to meddle in a successful private-sector program?

The ironic thing about conservative support for vouchers is that they are supporting a government program to deal with the problems created by another government program. It is especially ironic that after the Republicans took control of Congress in 1994, they praised the virtues of devolving federal power to the states. Any voucher system that originates from the federal government betrays that principle. This does not even include the fact that the federal government has no constitutional authority to dictate educational policy for a nation of 280 million people from one city on the East Coast.

Ronald Reagan explained to us that government is the problem, not the solution. I hope voucher supporters take his advice.

[Warlady]

S-T, Thomas Jefferson was for public school education. I read a quote from him not that long ago on that very subject. Perhaps someone can locate it. I understand your concerns but I don't think that it will apply in the case of vouchers.

[DesertFox]

Oh, it will, alright, if it doesn't fix some things in time to prevent that from happening. But I still favor vouchers.

[Warlady]

Fox a voucher is aid to an individual student not a school. I would agree with you if the aid were going directly to a private school instead of to the parent/student.

[DesertFox]

The way they twist words in Washington, that's close enough. Thing is, we end up regretting anything that's done by anybody. Might as well be SOME good come of SOMEthing, even if short term.

[Beowulf]

I'd love to have my son in a private school. I just can't afford one. If this program allows it to be, I'm all for it.

A side thought here, if people send their kids to a private school in large numbers, I wonder if that means in time that property taxes will reduce? After all, if their are less students in tax funded schools, how can it be justified to keep tax revenues high? I can't.

[ThomasIsUnderrated]

[ QUOTE ]
S-T said:
Any voucher system that originates from the federal government betrays that principle.

[/ QUOTE ]

This voucher program is for the Washington D.C. area. That's why the Republicans in Congress were so interested in it. Yes, as the article makes clear, they are thinking of expanding it, which does bother me a little. I think the states should be the main ones to deal with the voucher issue.

[Westbrook]

[ QUOTE ]
Beowulf said:A side thought here, if people send their kids to a private school in large numbers, I wonder if that means in time that property taxes will reduce? After all, if their are less students in tax funded schools, how can it be justified to keep tax revenues high? I can't.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not a chance.

They will still have the buildings and grounds to maintain, and the highly paid stupidintendents, the bloated burearacies endemic to the school collective (aka school district) system, and the ridiculously expensive "sports" programs, not to mention the special PC seminars on "diversity" and "sex education, where they hire highly-paid "specialists in the field" to hold series of presentations on these and related topics.

[DesertFox]

FWIW, the above problems are directly traceable to federal involvement in education. Local responsibility (and funding) for schools would solve all the major problems of public education.

[TheRealLobo]

[ QUOTE ]
Beowulf said:...A side thought here, if people send their kids to a private school in large numbers, I wonder if that means in time that property taxes will reduce? After all, if their are less students in tax funded schools, how can it be justified to keep tax revenues high? I can't.

[/ QUOTE ]

SNORF! You're kidding right?

They have to keep the schools open and the idiots employed. How much of your school tax dollars do you think actually are used on the kids?

[FatherTime]

[ QUOTE ]
Longhorn_Platinum said:
[ QUOTE ]
The_RANDy_Corporation said:
President Bush backs the idea but...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon17.gif ...it is strongly opposed by many Democrats who say it will undermine public schools and is unfair to students left behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/serious.gif <font color="blue">Poor babies. This'll mean less money for overpaid "school" district superintendents.</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Ohhh, you ain't seen nut'in yet.

In St. Paul, MN, the school SI had a private shower and sauna installed so that he could go for his morning run, come into the office, and "freshen up" before the start of a busy day. (this was back in 1989) The current SI in St. Paul is a racist bitch who insists on stressing "culture" and "diversity" as she puts it "above all else...math and science included".

I know of 4 math teachers who filed a formal complaint with the city of St. Paul and the AMS (American Mathematics Society) in response to her statements.

Funny, how it recieved no acknowledgement in the press. (only the part about stressing "diverty" was quoted)

-FT /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/whatever.gif

[DoctorDoom]

Here's are a few items indicating that PS teachers have been acutely aware of the problems with government schools for quite a while.

[ QUOTE ]
Washington, D.C. (5/30/95) A recently released study by leading education authority and Center for Education Reform board member Denis Doyle indicates that urban public school teachers are more than twice as likely to send their children to private schools as other Americans.

This eye-opening report, "Where Connoisseurs Send Their Children to School: An Analysis of 1990 Census Data to Determine Where School Teachers Send Their Children to School," provides a breakdown of the level of private school enrollment of public school teachers in major urban cities. Some dramatic examples---in Boston, 44.6% of public school teachers enroll their children in private schools. In San Francisco, it's 36.7%, Cleveland's at 39.7% and in Chicago, 36.3%.

[/ QUOTE ]
PS Teachers More Than Twice As Likely to Send Their Children to Private School (http://207.201.191.212/press/595doyle.htm)

[ QUOTE ]
I am a public-school teacher who sends his children to a private school. For this I make no apologies. I am no more a hypocrite than an autoworker who rides the bus to work or a merchant who sells lottery tickets while wisely investing his own spare money in stocks or bonds. As a parent, I choose what is best for my children.

I attended public schools myself and at one time expected that my children would, too. My wife and I had many an argument over where our daughters would attend school. She, a product of Catholic education, always wanted our daughters to attend private school. Both the egalitarian and the cheapskate in me wanted them to at least begin in public schools. We decided to let my oldest daughter attend public kindergarten and then wait to decide about future grades.

[/ QUOTE ]
Public-school Teacher, Private-school Parent (http://speakout.com/activism/opinions/5092-1.html)

[ QUOTE ]
The issue of extending choice to low-income families will baffle as well. Most middle- and upper-income Americans already exercise school choice. Most typically, they exercise it when deciding where to purchase a home (just ask any real estate agent). They also exercise it by reaching into their pockets and paying for private schools when the government-run institutions don't meet their needs.

Few groups exercise it more than elected officials and public school teachers, who are in the best position to judge the quality of the schools. A 2000 survey of members of the U.S. House of Representatives found that 40 percent send or have sent their children to private schools; the figure for senators was nearly 50 percent. In Cleveland, where the teachers union banded with others to fight choice, 40 percent of public school teachers send their children to private schools. In Boston, 45 percent of public school teachers send their children to private schools; so do 36 percent of public school teachers in Chicago and Philadelphia.

[/ QUOTE ]
Free To Choose (http://reason.com/ml/ml062702a.shtml)

[ QUOTE ]
Once again, then, it should not astonish us to find out that urban public school teachers know a good deal when they see one. Nationally, 13.1 percent of American families sent their children to private schools in 1990, while a comparable 12.1 percent of public school teachers did so. In cities, however, we see a different story. In 1990, for instance, in Baltimore 18.1 percent of the general public selected private schools. But among BCPS teachers that figure almost doubled, with 31.7 percent of public school teachers choosing private schools for their children. The figure was particularly acute for white Baltimore public school teachers, 61.5 percent of whom used private schools in 1990. For black BCPS teachers, the figure was 20.9 percent. For Baltimore public school teachers of all races earning more than $70,000 annually, the private-school option was selected by 48.0 percent.

[/ QUOTE ]
Public v. Private Schools: A Reality Check on the BCPS (http://www.calvertinstitute.org/comment/ccvol1.html)

[ QUOTE ]
No wonder the California Teachers Association was howling. Ray Haynes actually wanted them to practice what they preach.

Haynes, a Republican state senator from California, recently introduced legislation in Sacramento that would have required public school teachers to send their children to public schools. Teachers cried out in opposition from the Redwood forests of northern California to the Mexican border. "People," said CTA spokesman Mike Myslinski, "have the right to put their children in [private schools]."

Teachers' union officials for school choice? Before Haynes' bill, that group could have met comfortably in a phone booth. Just last fall, that same union led the fight -- ultimately successful -- against California's Proposition 38, an initiative to offer parents private-school vouchers. A dollar for vouchers, the union argued, moved the public-school system a dollar closer to starvation and further from excellence.

[/ QUOTE ]
Look Who's Supporting School Choice Now (http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed042501.cfm)

It's interesting that the NEA and the ATF are rabidly opposed to vouchers and school choice while in the cities their own members prefer private schools more than the general public.

[TheRealLobo]

From one of the articles:

[ QUOTE ]
I am a public-school teacher who sends his children to a private school. For this I make no apologies. I am no more a hypocrite than an autoworker who rides the bus to work or a merchant who sells lottery tickets while wisely investing his own spare money in stocks or bonds. As a parent, I choose what is best for my children.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bull...the autoworker that rides the bus does so for economic reasons, or to avoid traffic at rush hour. The merchant who sells lottery tickets does so for ecoomic reasons, or to provide a service to his customers. A teacher that sends their child to private school is more akin to an autoworker that won't own an automobile because he knows how shoddy they are, or a merchant that won't sell lottery tickets because there actually is no jackpot.

[Charity]

Tax credits for Homeschoolers, now that I would get excited about. I say hooray for anything that gets kids out of the public school institutions, but I am just a little worried about government mandated curriculum from the vouchers. Just a little.
I also worry that the gummint might want to mandate curriculum to the Christian schools in which vouchers might be used. That would be very bad. It could in fact ruin a Creation teaching Christian school or force them to change their curriculum at the least. I am watching to see how that turns out.
I know that homeschool for us is a given. Thus far, I pick the curriculum. I pick ABEKA and Alpha-Omega. I doubt that it would jive with OBE.