DesertFox
04-10-2004, 06:56 PM
<font size=1>14 May 2002</font>
Suzie
Is porn good for society?
Labour, the UK's governing party, is being partly funded by a porn magnate. The revelation has outraged many, but MP and feminist Glenda Jackson sees no reason to object.
He's the publisher behind some of Britain's best selling top shelf titles, including Forty and Over, All Girl Action and Horny Housewives, and he's also a generous Labour Party donor.
News that millionaire tycoon Richard Desmond, who is also chief executive of Express Newspapers, donated £100,000 to the party has provoked a chorus of protest from many of its supporters.
MORE: BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1986000/1986869.stm
Don't ya just love the British Press!
The RANDy Corporation
Is porn good for society?
No.
Westbrook
RANDyC, you beat me to it.
I have the same answer.
<font size=5>NO!!!! </font>
Maggie T
Is porn good for society?
For that matter: Are prostitutes good for society?
I can't imagine one single reason why either of the two should be. But I'm sure our Maxi, Nemo, NouveauVox, et al. will supply us with plenty of excuses if we're patient.
pja
Is porn good for society?
Only if you are a loonie leftist.
Marla
Gee, one look at Glenda Jackson and I can see why she supports the pornography industry. Porn is probably about as close to love as she has ever got. Maybe I am being rather cruel but why is it that the ones supporting this are so darn ugly?
I myself see Porn as nothing but a cheap substitute for the beauty of a relationship with someone you love and respect. And something that is a hindrance to obtaining the "Real thing".
Wolf Counsel
The nude female human body is very pleasing to the eyes of the majority of heterosexual males. And the same goes for the male body to most heterosexual females.
Those people who would equate the nude body with pornography had better ask the Creator why He made man and woman in that way.
If anybody can give me a good definition of what constitutes pornography, either private or public, I will give that person a round of applause.
Westbrook
Originally posted by Wolf Counsel:
Those people who would equate the nude body with pornography had better ask the Creator why He made man and woman in that way.
He made them in that way to "be fruitful and multiply".
Here are just a couple of items from God's Word that deal with your question.
Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (That was Jesus speaking).
Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Wolf Counsel
"Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (That was Jesus speaking)." --Jesus
I don't really go for discussing Biblical statements that much, but I'll give it an occasional try.
I take that to mean Jesus was saying that it is not enough to refrain from doing bad things, but to also not think about doing bad things.
Now look at the societal part of that statement. Name ten people on this board who do not express their sexual feelings to some degree (What a hunk!, conservababe!, et cetera). Especially those who are married, or "going steady". I do not believe they are committing adultery in their hearts just because they post those types of phrases. Do you?
Now, anybody else want to try to give me a definition of what pornography is? Sorry, Westbrook, no cigar, and I mean it with no reference to Slicky.
Maggie T
Wolf, The Oxford Modern English Dictionary defines it thus:
pornography n.1. The explicit description or exhibition of sexual activity in literature, films, etc. intended to stimulate erotic rather then aesthetic or emotional feelings. 2. literature etc. characterized by this. (from the Greek pornographos 'writing of harlots')
Better by far than anything I could come up with. From that definition, I understand that it is the cheapening of sexual relations, merely designed to appeal to our lowest instincts. Doesn't sound like anything very edifying, does it?.
Westbrook
Ya gotta admit, Wolfie, Maggie seems to have nailed it.
There's a world of difference between "conservababe" (a euphemism for attractive conservative female) to "I wanna **** her!"
Nevertheless, I endeavor to refrain from commenting on the attractiveness of females, because I am a very happily married man, and it behooves me to "abstain from all appearance of evil."
Wolf Counsel
"From that definition [see above], I understand that it is the cheapening of sexual relations, merely designed to ap-peal to our lowest instincts." --Maggie T
Basically, whatever arouses the sexual urge in a person is pornographic, then. I believe pornography is how each person defines it in his mind. It is in the eye of the beholder, same as beauty, or ugliness. I don't believe it can be pinpointed.
Like that forgotten judge once said, paraphrased, "I don't know what pornography is, but if it gets me erect, it's dirty!"
Okay, Maggie, you and Westbrook each get cigars for nice tries, heh heh.
Maggie T
Thanks, Wolfie, but in a moment of weakness that I never ceased to regret, I gave up smoking.
So. Could you make that a martini? Vodka martini, straight up, two olives?
Wolf Counsel
Vodka Martini, it is.
Suzie
Wow! a drinkin' and porn thread! It's been a long time since we had one of those! Mom gets her fingers hurt and while she's on the pain meds we go wild. Make mine a zinfindel!
Marla
Wolf, I have to agree with you on that a naked body in itself is not pornographic but a work of God. But person-ally I think the way pictures and movies of naked people are mostly done are pornographic.
Basically most of them are done on purely animal instinct like two or more dogs "Fu***ing". Which leaves out the most important and beautiful thing of a relationship called love and respect.
The love of a married couple is a beautiful and PRIVATE moment and to make it public to prying eyes degrades it.
Wolf Counsel
Red or white, Suzie?
"The Love of a married couple is a beautifull and PRIVATE moment and to make it public to prying eyes degrades it." --Marla
I agree. But otherwise there is no danger involved. People will make anything out of whatever their minds absorb. That is their responsibility to bear.
Suzie
White please!
Wolf Counsel
White it is. I enjoy white zinfandel with cat on a stick on occasion. It really wakes up the taste buds!
Suzie
Thanks Wolfie to cat for me please I am trying to cut back, for swimsuit season.
Wonder if nude beaches are considered pornography?
Marla
I don't know if they are or not. But when I was a teenager the only beach we could ride our horses on was "Blacks Beach" in La Jolla, CA. It wasn't the horse wearing blinders that time, it was me!
DesertFox
I got no use for the likes of Larry Flynt and his feller travelers, but have to agree with the Wolf that porn is so much in the eye of the beholder that it's difficult to define. That dictionary definition, like all such definitions, ends up making the erotic sound dirty and somehow wrong. What's dirty and wrong with the erotic?
That porn is erotic isn't a strike against it. IMO, the erotic becomes porn when it becomes public. It offends our sense of proper public behavior. It does that because we know, without ever even thinking about it, that if every-body started copulating in public, society would quickly explode. Here's my tentative theory of why:
Authority is the basis of civilization. It stems from our biologically-wired need for hierarchy, which assures the stability (predictability) and security of social living necessary for raising the young.
Authority is fundamentally a form of exclusivity, modeled on the drive for power which is an expression of the biological need for sexual exclusivity that drives formation of the family. It all comes down to what's necessary for family life.
Sexual promiscuity, the most basic form of porn, endangers civilization because it endangers the family by com-promising the sexual exclusivity that ensures the commitment necessary to raise kids.
Our sense of propriety -- morality -- is also rooted in the sex drive, and for the same reason: Behavior that en-dangers social stability endangers the family, and porn inherently threatens family stability by threatening sexual exclusivity. Hence those who most strongly object to porn are those whose commitment to family is strongest. Good family people.
If the foregoing is correct, one would expect that those who engage in or don't object to porn have more tenuous family drives. Which populations among us are most attracted (or object least) to porn? Men more than women. Gay men more than straight men. Libs more than Conservatives. Etc.
There's more, but you get the idear.
Marla
Very well put, Desert Fox! You are very eloquent in your writing and opinion. Too bad you're already married
Suzie
So then, DF, you think it's OK if we tell someone they are a hottie conservahunk or that they look like a studly coun-try singer?
DesertFox
It all depends on the context.
If one's saying that in this milieu, where we are all committed to families and all know it, it's just harmless by-play.
If one says it to get somebody into the sack, that's rather different.
Suzie
Whew, that's a relief! I think one should enjoy the scenery God has created for us when it's there, if it's look don't touch!
DesertFox
Agreed.
Wolf Counsel
HEAR! HEAR! Fox, you said it!
]Suzie, as to nude beaches, refer to God's work of art, heh heh.
Fox, you are right on target, and I do enjoy the sight of the nude female body, and my wife enjoys looking at the opposite sex, but that is as far as it goes.
Look, don't touch. Dass right, Suzie. We are not walking corpses, heh heh heh.
Suzie
Does this mean we get to see nekkid pictures of the conservahunks?
Wolf Counsel
Oh, I don't know. Naked means you have no clothes on. Nekkid means you have no clothes on and you're up to something, heh heh.
Suzie
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon16.gif
<font size=1>14 May 2002</font>
Suzie
Is porn good for society?
Labour, the UK's governing party, is being partly funded by a porn magnate. The revelation has outraged many, but MP and feminist Glenda Jackson sees no reason to object.
He's the publisher behind some of Britain's best selling top shelf titles, including Forty and Over, All Girl Action and Horny Housewives, and he's also a generous Labour Party donor.
News that millionaire tycoon Richard Desmond, who is also chief executive of Express Newspapers, donated £100,000 to the party has provoked a chorus of protest from many of its supporters.
MORE: BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1986000/1986869.stm
Don't ya just love the British Press!
The RANDy Corporation
Is porn good for society?
No.
Westbrook
RANDyC, you beat me to it.
I have the same answer.
<font size=5>NO!!!! </font>
Maggie T
Is porn good for society?
For that matter: Are prostitutes good for society?
I can't imagine one single reason why either of the two should be. But I'm sure our Maxi, Nemo, NouveauVox, et al. will supply us with plenty of excuses if we're patient.
pja
Is porn good for society?
Only if you are a loonie leftist.
Marla
Gee, one look at Glenda Jackson and I can see why she supports the pornography industry. Porn is probably about as close to love as she has ever got. Maybe I am being rather cruel but why is it that the ones supporting this are so darn ugly?
I myself see Porn as nothing but a cheap substitute for the beauty of a relationship with someone you love and respect. And something that is a hindrance to obtaining the "Real thing".
Wolf Counsel
The nude female human body is very pleasing to the eyes of the majority of heterosexual males. And the same goes for the male body to most heterosexual females.
Those people who would equate the nude body with pornography had better ask the Creator why He made man and woman in that way.
If anybody can give me a good definition of what constitutes pornography, either private or public, I will give that person a round of applause.
Westbrook
Originally posted by Wolf Counsel:
Those people who would equate the nude body with pornography had better ask the Creator why He made man and woman in that way.
He made them in that way to "be fruitful and multiply".
Here are just a couple of items from God's Word that deal with your question.
Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (That was Jesus speaking).
Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Wolf Counsel
"Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (That was Jesus speaking)." --Jesus
I don't really go for discussing Biblical statements that much, but I'll give it an occasional try.
I take that to mean Jesus was saying that it is not enough to refrain from doing bad things, but to also not think about doing bad things.
Now look at the societal part of that statement. Name ten people on this board who do not express their sexual feelings to some degree (What a hunk!, conservababe!, et cetera). Especially those who are married, or "going steady". I do not believe they are committing adultery in their hearts just because they post those types of phrases. Do you?
Now, anybody else want to try to give me a definition of what pornography is? Sorry, Westbrook, no cigar, and I mean it with no reference to Slicky.
Maggie T
Wolf, The Oxford Modern English Dictionary defines it thus:
pornography n.1. The explicit description or exhibition of sexual activity in literature, films, etc. intended to stimulate erotic rather then aesthetic or emotional feelings. 2. literature etc. characterized by this. (from the Greek pornographos 'writing of harlots')
Better by far than anything I could come up with. From that definition, I understand that it is the cheapening of sexual relations, merely designed to appeal to our lowest instincts. Doesn't sound like anything very edifying, does it?.
Westbrook
Ya gotta admit, Wolfie, Maggie seems to have nailed it.
There's a world of difference between "conservababe" (a euphemism for attractive conservative female) to "I wanna **** her!"
Nevertheless, I endeavor to refrain from commenting on the attractiveness of females, because I am a very happily married man, and it behooves me to "abstain from all appearance of evil."
Wolf Counsel
"From that definition [see above], I understand that it is the cheapening of sexual relations, merely designed to ap-peal to our lowest instincts." --Maggie T
Basically, whatever arouses the sexual urge in a person is pornographic, then. I believe pornography is how each person defines it in his mind. It is in the eye of the beholder, same as beauty, or ugliness. I don't believe it can be pinpointed.
Like that forgotten judge once said, paraphrased, "I don't know what pornography is, but if it gets me erect, it's dirty!"
Okay, Maggie, you and Westbrook each get cigars for nice tries, heh heh.
Maggie T
Thanks, Wolfie, but in a moment of weakness that I never ceased to regret, I gave up smoking.
So. Could you make that a martini? Vodka martini, straight up, two olives?
Wolf Counsel
Vodka Martini, it is.
Suzie
Wow! a drinkin' and porn thread! It's been a long time since we had one of those! Mom gets her fingers hurt and while she's on the pain meds we go wild. Make mine a zinfindel!
Marla
Wolf, I have to agree with you on that a naked body in itself is not pornographic but a work of God. But person-ally I think the way pictures and movies of naked people are mostly done are pornographic.
Basically most of them are done on purely animal instinct like two or more dogs "Fu***ing". Which leaves out the most important and beautiful thing of a relationship called love and respect.
The love of a married couple is a beautiful and PRIVATE moment and to make it public to prying eyes degrades it.
Wolf Counsel
Red or white, Suzie?
"The Love of a married couple is a beautifull and PRIVATE moment and to make it public to prying eyes degrades it." --Marla
I agree. But otherwise there is no danger involved. People will make anything out of whatever their minds absorb. That is their responsibility to bear.
Suzie
White please!
Wolf Counsel
White it is. I enjoy white zinfandel with cat on a stick on occasion. It really wakes up the taste buds!
Suzie
Thanks Wolfie to cat for me please I am trying to cut back, for swimsuit season.
Wonder if nude beaches are considered pornography?
Marla
I don't know if they are or not. But when I was a teenager the only beach we could ride our horses on was "Blacks Beach" in La Jolla, CA. It wasn't the horse wearing blinders that time, it was me!
DesertFox
I got no use for the likes of Larry Flynt and his feller travelers, but have to agree with the Wolf that porn is so much in the eye of the beholder that it's difficult to define. That dictionary definition, like all such definitions, ends up making the erotic sound dirty and somehow wrong. What's dirty and wrong with the erotic?
That porn is erotic isn't a strike against it. IMO, the erotic becomes porn when it becomes public. It offends our sense of proper public behavior. It does that because we know, without ever even thinking about it, that if every-body started copulating in public, society would quickly explode. Here's my tentative theory of why:
Authority is the basis of civilization. It stems from our biologically-wired need for hierarchy, which assures the stability (predictability) and security of social living necessary for raising the young.
Authority is fundamentally a form of exclusivity, modeled on the drive for power which is an expression of the biological need for sexual exclusivity that drives formation of the family. It all comes down to what's necessary for family life.
Sexual promiscuity, the most basic form of porn, endangers civilization because it endangers the family by com-promising the sexual exclusivity that ensures the commitment necessary to raise kids.
Our sense of propriety -- morality -- is also rooted in the sex drive, and for the same reason: Behavior that en-dangers social stability endangers the family, and porn inherently threatens family stability by threatening sexual exclusivity. Hence those who most strongly object to porn are those whose commitment to family is strongest. Good family people.
If the foregoing is correct, one would expect that those who engage in or don't object to porn have more tenuous family drives. Which populations among us are most attracted (or object least) to porn? Men more than women. Gay men more than straight men. Libs more than Conservatives. Etc.
There's more, but you get the idear.
Marla
Very well put, Desert Fox! You are very eloquent in your writing and opinion. Too bad you're already married
Suzie
So then, DF, you think it's OK if we tell someone they are a hottie conservahunk or that they look like a studly coun-try singer?
DesertFox
It all depends on the context.
If one's saying that in this milieu, where we are all committed to families and all know it, it's just harmless by-play.
If one says it to get somebody into the sack, that's rather different.
Suzie
Whew, that's a relief! I think one should enjoy the scenery God has created for us when it's there, if it's look don't touch!
DesertFox
Agreed.
Wolf Counsel
HEAR! HEAR! Fox, you said it!
]Suzie, as to nude beaches, refer to God's work of art, heh heh.
Fox, you are right on target, and I do enjoy the sight of the nude female body, and my wife enjoys looking at the opposite sex, but that is as far as it goes.
Look, don't touch. Dass right, Suzie. We are not walking corpses, heh heh heh.
Suzie
Does this mean we get to see nekkid pictures of the conservahunks?
Wolf Counsel
Oh, I don't know. Naked means you have no clothes on. Nekkid means you have no clothes on and you're up to something, heh heh.
Suzie
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon16.gif
<font size=1>14 May 2002</font>