Splintered conservatives hurt McCain

[Maggie_T]

Thank you Maggie. May I give you a hug for that one?

Right back at you, ducky.

[Naturalized-Texan]

Suzie, it's inconceivable to some here that we're standing on our own principles, when they think they're the only ones doing so. I'm supporting McCain because he's pro-life, & that's my number one principle.

I will also vote for McCain because he is pro-life as well as the fact that he is also right on two of my other top issues: the War on Terror and the economy.

"Baaarrraaaccckkk!!!,...

...Who's Insane, O[s]ama," is wrong on those issues as well as several others where McCain is right.

Consequently, I will be standing on my principles by voting for McCain.

[MSGT]

I think this statement defines the great divide between the two camps in this forum... One side is driven by an unwaivering belief in Conservative principles and a disregard for party/gang loyalty... The other side is driven by..........fear...

That is the sad, naked truth of the matter...

A President McCain will be the single catalyst that the leftists in this country have always needed to silence the opposition to their Marxist agenda... No Republican in Congress will oppose a seated Republican President, even if he IS a Marxist himself... They will put party loyalty above Conservative principles... This is what the Left is betting on - This is what will happen...

McCain will be the killing blow to the Republican party...

Maybe in the long run, after many years of the Socialist revolution in America that McCain will usher in, sometime after I'm dead, Conservatism will rise from the ashes under a new opposition party - And the grandchildren of those who empowered McCain and his agenda out of blind fear of the old hated enemy, will spill their blood so that their children will live free again...

Subsequent generations always pay the bill for the actions of their ancestors... This is what happens when people stop voting FOR principles and start voting based on Fear...

Wow, How big is that horse you're on. Nice of ya to look down your nose to speak to the quivering masses. Your strength and courage have you astounded.

[PrezLeefun]

So we just forget about Obama? I notice no one ever seems to mention him. We can list all of McCain's flaws in this thread and not discuss the article at all, but Obama is still going to win ... then what?

You know Suz I am terrified of Obama. But I am starting to think that Ann C. had a point. We could endure 4 years under Obama and have a strong Republican comeback 2012 or we could have a weak Republican now and endure 14-18 years of Democrats.

[Elgalad]

Originally Posted by Elgalad
A McCain Presidency is not the "lesser" of two evils. Evil = Evil.

disagree...A lie isn't the same as murder. There are degrees of evil.

Not in God's eyes. And no, I'm not suggesting we should apply a standard of perfection to our candidates, but neither should we be willing to ignore blatantly unacceptable problems with one candidate simply because we have only been offered two choices. Compromise is a very slippery slope.

True, but what will it look like in 2012.

Pretty much the same as it did in 1968, 1980, and 2000. In other words, ready for a shift back to the Right.

Those who claim that we will recover from 4 or 8 years of an Obama presidency as we did following the Carter presidency are forgetting, or ignoring, the fact that congressional Democrats today are faaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr more extreme than congressional Democrats were when Carter was president. The majority of congressional Democrats during the Carter years were what we now refer to as moderate Democrats on the order of Zell Miller who were willing to work with Republicans and, when Reagan won in 1980, were willing to work with him. Those moderate Democrats are long gone.

Nah, there never were 'more moderate DemonRats' in the good old days. Just ones that knew how to cut deals. Sort of like this guy..

(actually, he was around back then too)


Or this guy.


Or this guy.


Or..

(hey, I didn't say it.. )

No Tex, I'd say the deal makers are still very much active in Washington.

That's why I am convinced that conservatism may never return during the lifetime of anyone who is posting here if Obama is elected president with a Democrat congress.

Then lets make sure he doesn't get a demonRat Congress!

Problem solved.

I think this statement defines the great divide between the two camps in this forum... One side is driven by an unwaivering belief in Conservative principles and a disregard for party/gang loyalty... The other side is driven by..........fear...

..snip..

Subsequent generations always pay the bill for the actions of their ancestors... This is what happens when people stop voting FOR principles and start voting based on Fear...

Laz, I do believe you've nailed it.

But how much of its freedoms will remain?

As many as we deserve, and as few as we are willing to fight for.

Yes, of course, the anti-McCainers are standing solely on principles, while the rest of us are craven cowards. It's that kind of rhetoric that is causing hard feelings among friends.

I agree that the rhetoric on both sides has gotten extreme at times. I can't speak for Lazarus, but I don't believe he intended to lampoon anyone as a coward for standing on their beliefs. I certainly don't feel that way, and I Do greatly respect you and Suzie, and Tex, MSGT, et al for maintaining your commitment to stop what you all perceive as a greater threat than a President McCain. I absolutely do Not agree with that, but it does not diminish my respect for you.

It Is incredibly unfortunate that we are all so split over this one 'last choice' candidate. If we can agree on nothing else regarding him, we should at least acknowledge that he Is the ultimate cause for this rift. For that alone, he should be held accountable someday.

To those of you who are standing on "principles" by not voting for McCain, I'm truly sorry we didn't get the second coming of Ronald Reagan, or even the first coming of Fred Thompson, but I'm not going to sit back & let...

...Baaarrraaaccckkk!!!,...

...Who's Insane, O[s]ama win, when I could have had a president with who I agree at least part of the time. Kindly refrain from acting as if your "principles" are superior to mine.

You got it, Moo.

Please remember though, it's a two way street.


-Elgalad

[Suzie]

You know Suz I am terrified of Obama. But I am starting to think that Ann C. had a point. We could endure 4 years under Obama and have a strong Republican comeback 2012 or we could have a weak Republican now and endure 14-18 years of Democrats.

Ann Coulter is voting against Obama. She will tick the ballot for McCain just as she did Bob Dole, whom she frequently compares him to. (Google Coulter Dole McCain)


During the Q-and-A portion, Coulter said that she would “vote against Obama. I voted for Bob Dole; it’s not a vivid memory, but I did it. ...

[Timberwolf]

Originally Posted by Elgalad
A McCain Presidency is not the "lesser" of two evils. Evil = Evil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSGT
disagree...A lie isn't the same as murder. There are degrees of evil.

Not in God's eyes. And no, I'm not suggesting we should apply a standard of perfection to our candidates, but neither should we be willing to ignore blatantly unacceptable problems with one candidate simply because we have only been offered two choices. Compromise is a very slippery slope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSGT
True, but what will it look like in 2012.

Pretty much the same as it did in 1968, 1980, and 2000. In other words, ready for a shift back to the Right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naturalized-Texan
Those who claim that we will recover from 4 or 8 years of an Obama presidency as we did following the Carter presidency are forgetting, or ignoring, the fact that congressional Democrats today are faaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr more extreme than congressional Democrats were when Carter was president. The majority of congressional Democrats during the Carter years were what we now refer to as moderate Democrats on the order of Zell Miller who were willing to work with Republicans and, when Reagan won in 1980, were willing to work with him. Those moderate Democrats are long gone.

Nah, there never were 'more moderate DemonRats' in the good old days. Just ones that knew how to cut deals. Sort of like this guy..

(actually, he was around back then too)


Or this guy.


Or this guy.


Or..

(hey, I didn't say it.. )

No Tex, I'd say the deal makers are still very much active in Washington.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naturalized-Texan
That's why I am convinced that conservatism may never return during the lifetime of anyone who is posting here if Obama is elected president with a Democrat congress.

Then lets make sure he doesn't get a demonRat Congress!

Problem solved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus
I think this statement defines the great divide between the two camps in this forum... One side is driven by an unwaivering belief in Conservative principles and a disregard for party/gang loyalty... The other side is driven by..........fear...

..snip..

Subsequent generations always pay the bill for the actions of their ancestors... This is what happens when people stop voting FOR principles and start voting based on Fear...

Laz, I do believe you've nailed it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longhorn_Platinum
But how much of its freedoms will remain?

As many as we deserve, and as few as we are willing to fight for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longhorn_Platinum
Yes, of course, the anti-McCainers are standing solely on principles, while the rest of us are craven cowards. It's that kind of rhetoric that is causing hard feelings among friends.

I agree that the rhetoric on both sides has gotten extreme at times. I can't speak for Lazarus, but I don't believe he intended to lampoon anyone as a coward for standing on their beliefs. I certainly don't feel that way, and I Do greatly respect you and Suzie, and Tex, MSGT, et al for maintaining your commitment to stop what you all perceive as a greater threat than a President McCain. I absolutely do Not agree with that, but it does not diminish my respect for you.

It Is incredibly unfortunate that we are all so split over this one 'last choice' candidate. If we can agree on nothing else regarding him, we should at least acknowledge that he Is the ultimate cause for this rift. For that alone, he should be held accountable someday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longhorn_Platinum
To those of you who are standing on "principles" by not voting for McCain, I'm truly sorry we didn't get the second coming of Ronald Reagan, or even the first coming of Fred Thompson, but I'm not going to sit back & let...

...Baaarrraaaccckkk!!!,...

...Who's Insane, O[s]ama win, when I could have had a president with who I agree at least part of the time. Kindly refrain from acting as if your "principles" are superior to mine.

You got it, Moo.

Please remember though, it's a two way street.


-Elgalad

[PrezLeefun]

Ann Coulter is voting against Obama. She will tick the ballot for McCain just as she did Bob Dole, whom she frequently compares him to. (Google Coulter Dole McCain)


During the Q-and-A portion, Coulter said that she would “vote against Obama. I voted for Bob Dole; it’s not a vivid memory, but I did it. ...

I am saying she had a point. I'm no longer sure I will follow her lead.

[Suzie]

I am saying she had a point. I'm no longer sure I will follow her lead.

Fair enough. But I don't think anyone here thinks she is voting out of fear now do they? I am sure like the rest of us making that vote she just thinks Obama would be far worse and we might not recover anything. She placed her bets on Hillary and she lost. Now the far more liberal Obama seems more of a threat.

[MSGT]

Not in God's eyes.

Not true. All sin makes you imperfect but not all are the same. There's the unpardonable sin, the sin leading to death, not to mention the sanctuary cities in the OT and the different punishments for different sins set forth by God.

And no, I'm not suggesting we should apply a standard of perfection to our candidates, but neither should we be willing to ignore blatantly unacceptable problems with one candidate simply because we have only been offered two choices. Compromise is a very slippery slope.

Either McCain or Bammy will be the next president.

[Etaoin]

I rather doubt that there is anyone on the board who dislikes McCain more than I do.

If you think the election of Obama would make it possible for a conservative resurgence echoing 1980, then you are obviously smoking some pretty heavy dope. The left is rabidly vicious!!! Given the power of the presidency and 28 years of indoctrination by the FEDERAL DEPT. OF "EDUCATION" they will appoint at least 2 on SCOTUS.

You can count on a "Fairness" doctrine that will silence the remnants of the first amendment, talk radio. The 2nd amentment will be eviscerted with a SCOTUS similar to California's 11th circuit.

Forget Posse Comitatis, homeland security will be turned against American citizenry who still believe a constitution will protect them.

The lunatics will have taken over the asylum and it will be too damned late for a "do-over."

The left would like nothing better than a reprise of the French Revolution.

"OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!"

Sooo....be principled, It just may be your last opportunity to do so!

[Elgalad]

I rather doubt that there is anyone on the board who dislikes McCain more than I do.

That's funny, I could say the same thing myself. In fact I wonder if there's anyone on this board that actually Does like McCain.

Okay, so we all loathe the guy. It's good to agree on some things..

If you think the election of Obama would make it possible for a conservative resurgence echoing 1980, then you are obviously smoking some pretty heavy dope. The left is rabidly vicious!!! Given the power of the presidency and 28 years of indoctrination by the FEDERAL DEPT. OF "EDUCATION" they will appoint at least 2 on SCOTUS.

Well, I don't 'smoke dope', but I do believe Obama will bring about a dramatic backlash against liberalism if he is elected. I agree that the left is viciously rabid!!! But I'll also point out that they're also laughably impotent. They've had complete control of both Houses for almost two straight years now and the only thing(s) they've been able to do (asinine farm bill legislation) have been With the tacit support of RINO 'pubs such as Join McKennedy. As for the SCOTUS nominees (I don't know where you were going with the 28 years of indoctrination..) yeah, we can expect Obama will nominate another couple Ginsburgs. Of course the alternative would be for McCain to nominate another couple Souters. Pick your Poison, I guess.

You can count on a "Fairness" doctrine that will silence the remnants of the first amendment, talk radio. The 2nd amentment will be eviscerted with a SCOTUS similar to California's 11th circuit.

Wait.. We still have a First Amendment?!?!

Forget Posse Comitatis, homeland security will be turned against American citizenry who still believe a constitution will protect them.

Actually some of us feel it is our responsibility to protect the Constitution. Which is why I can never in good conscience vote for Juan McFeingold.

The lunatics will have taken over the asylum and it will be too damned late for a "do-over."

There are no do-overs. Only next elections. Whoever finally gets elected this year, we're going to suffer through four years of rampant liberalism. Whether we have a chance to recover from that depends on whether there is an alternative to choose from in 2012. And That depends on whether we compromise that alternative now or whether we preserve it.

The left would like nothing better than a reprise of the French Revolution.

"OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!"

Okay here ya lost me.

Sooo....be principled, It just may be your last opportunity to do so!

Alright! I Will! I'll stick to my principles and vote for Conservatives for Congress and the Senate, since there are no Presidential candidates worth voting for.




-Elgalad

[MSGT]

Can you recall a president

[Beowulf]

I see that you are continuing to try to bully me in a futile attempt to prevent me from expressing my position that by not voting or voting for a 3rd party candidate, conservatives will actually be helping Obama become president.

No, Tex, I am not bullying anyone. How would voting 3rd party be helping Obama? I'm curious. I'm helping Obama ONLY if I check the box by his name.
Remember, Conservatives haven't abadoned the GOP, the GOP has abandoned us and even spit on us a good many times. When someone wrongs me, they have made an enemy for life so why should I cave and support someone who has wronged me?

[MSGT]

I think this statement defines the great divide between the two camps in this forum... One side is driven by an unwaivering belief in Conservative principles and a disregard for party/gang loyalty... The other side is driven by..........fear...

That is the sad, naked truth of the matter...

A President McCain will be the single catalyst that the leftists in this country have always needed to silence the opposition to their Marxist agenda... No Republican in Congress will oppose a seated Republican President, even if he IS a Marxist himself... They will put party loyalty above Conservative principles... This is what the Left is betting on - This is what will happen...

McCain will be the killing blow to the Republican party...

Maybe in the long run, after many years of the Socialist revolution in America that McCain will usher in, sometime after I'm dead, Conservatism will rise from the ashes under a new opposition party - And the grandchildren of those who empowered McCain and his agenda out of blind fear of the old hated enemy, will spill their blood so that their children will live free again...

Subsequent generations always pay the bill for the actions of their ancestors... This is what happens when people stop voting FOR principles and start voting based on Fear...

Ya know, I haven't been following threads as closely as some of you guys but this post is so over the top, you may want to apologize to any poster that you don't hold in complete contempt. This is one of the most arrogant, pompous, insulting posts I've read on this board. That is unless it was meant as troll bait. I understand those that won't vote for McCain and don't blame them. But to be attacked with such a venomous condescending rant, that can see into the future generations no less, is disappointing and reminiscent to dem tactics. If you are as clairvoyant as you state, you should have seen how this post would have been received.

Also Elgalad, sorry bro, you can't have it both ways. You can't give a post like this a thumbs up then state in the same post that you respect the views of those that were slandered from this post.

[Lubbock]

I'm not voting for McVain on PRINCIPLE --I'm not voting for him out of pure, unadulterated HATE.

I have never, never, never, ever like the man --for more years than I can rmember, I've had a deep dislike for him.

Now, I purely hate him.

He has stuck his finger in the eye of Republicans and Conservatives at every turn for as long as I can remember. He's curried favor with the Libs for as long as I can remember.

As far as I'm concerned, it's time for the Turncoat Asshole to get a big bite on the butt from the very people whose ass he's kissed for more years than I can remember.

Supreme Court Justices?

You don't think for one minute he's going to stick to that promise, if it means the NYT and Ted Kennedy will pat him on the head, do you?

Right to Life?

He would change that position in a heartbeat if it meant a positive column in the Washington Compost. In fact, I don't believe he's committed to Right to Life. I think that's just something he spouts in order to get a few conservative votes.

McCain/Finegold?

I hope it bites him where it hurts.

Osamabamabammy will be the worst thing that ever happened to this Nation, but if keeping him out of the seat of power means I have to vote for McCain, then you all better get used to saying, "President Osamabamabammy."

[Elgalad]

Also Elgalad, sorry bro, you can't have it both ways. You can't give a post like this a thumbs up then state in the same post that you respect the views of those that were slandered from this post.

Actually, I do believe I said I respect the persons who expressed those views. I don't recall saying anything about respecting their views, in fact I think I made clear that I absolutely disagree with them.

Just clarifying, MSGT.

I stand by my earlier post.


-Elgalad

[The Longhorn]

Lubbock:
I'm not not voting for McVain on PRINCIPLE --I'm not not voting for him out of pure, unadulterated HATE.

Um, okay, if you're not not voting for him out of principle or hatred, then why are you not voting for him?

[The Longhorn]

Lubbock:
Right to Life?

He would change that position in a heartbeat if it meant a positive column in the Washington Compost. In fact, I don't believe he's committed to Right to Life. I think that's just something he spouts in order to get a few conservative votes.

It will be on my conscience if a pro-abortion wacko becomes president, if I don't vote for the candidate who says he's pro-life. If McCain goes back on his word, it should be on his conscience.

[The Longhorn]

Elgalad:
Not in God's eyes.

I've heard this for years. Is there a Bible reference for it?